Video in a darkroom at DVinfo.net

Jon Shohet · May 28th, 2012, 05:44 AM

Hi all,
I've been asked to shoot of video of the process of printing black and white photos in a darkroom. The video should show the images developing in the developer tray. Unfortunately, I cannot add any lights, not even additional red lights, as the darkroom where I need to shoot will be shared by other people.

Has anyone here ever attempted something like this? Is this even possible?
I have a canon 60D. My fastest lens is the plastic fantastic (50 1.8).
Should I rent a faster lens? Will an infrared modified body help out in any way?

Any help and suggestion greatly appreciated, thanks.

Colin McDonald · May 28th, 2012, 12:23 PM

I've seen footage like this, but I don't know how it was done. A couple of things occurred to me:

When I used to do B&W 35mm D&P the safelights for printing were more yellow than red;
you would have to be careful that any LEDs and the LCD on your camera didn't leak non-safe light.

Can you get a chance to try out filming in the darkroom with just the safelight without anyone else there?
At least you would find out if you can capture any images at all.
Oh, and focussing will likely be a real b*gg*r. :-)

Jon Shohet · May 28th, 2012, 12:46 PM

Thanks Colin.
Yes you right, safelights for B&W are apparently amber not red, as it seems from doing a bit more research.
Never done any darkroom work in my life, unfortunately ;)
Also good point about blocking stray light from the video camera itself.

I'm trying to find out from the darkroom operators if it's at all possible to add additional safelights to the darkroom. If not, I will make a test with the fastest lens I can get and high iso, and see if the results are acceptable.

However, since each darkroom session costs money (of course), and since deadline for completion of this project is close, I was hoping maybe someone has an ingenious idea about shooting video in darkroom before I make my first test at the end of this week...

cheers

Brian Drysdale · May 28th, 2012, 04:54 PM

The only time I've done a darkroom sequence, we faked it. It was shot on film, so it was a while ago.

Having other people using the darkroom is rather inconvenient.

Allan Black · May 28th, 2012, 05:42 PM

Yes fake it and have the narrator explain why.

You could inject some humour into it .. start then turn all the lights out to emphasis why they call it a 'darkroom.'

Cheers.

Seth Bloombaum · May 28th, 2012, 07:04 PM

Yes, fake it!

As I recall, the image comes up from white to b&w over a 2-minute period or so.

I would find a way to do the establishing shots with good light in the darkroom - will they give you a reduced rate for exclusive use at midnight-4am? Then, a 10-second dissolve from white to b&w on a locked-off shot, with a legend that says "elapsed time = 2 minutes" or some such.

Shooting something like this in a shared working environment where other people reasonably expect to be productive is crazy talk, in my opinion. It's just going to hurt relationships with fellow photogs, and the facility.

Jon Shohet · May 29th, 2012, 04:49 AM

Guys, thanks. Unfortunately, faking it is not an option in this case. This is not a narrative/documentary, the black and white image appearing on the white paper is exactly what the artist doing this project is interested in capturing, not the darkroom surroundings or happenings. If we cannot manage to get decent footage of this process, we'll probably scrap the project entirely.

We will not be doing anything without the darkroom operators' permission, but your point is a valid one, Seth. We're doing our best to find a time slot to have the darkroom for ourselves, or at the very least a secluded part of it so that we don't disturb/get disturbed by other users.

What I'm still trying to figure out is if there is any specialized camera I can rent that would be better suited for the task than my 60D.

Noa Put · May 29th, 2012, 06:15 AM

Would a small handicam (or I think also a canon xf100 has it) with that night vision gimmick don't do the trick? But I guess it will transmit unsafe light as well to see in the dark.

Jon Shohet · May 30th, 2012, 02:43 AM

I had an old Sony Hi8 camcorder with that gimmick. Don't remember how it works, if it emits any light.
Not really the look we're going for, but if nothing else works I may give it a try if it doesn't emit any light.

Noa Put · May 30th, 2012, 02:54 AM

You can always replace that green colour with any other in post or just turn it to black and white, I just remembered that my sony xr520 has night vision so I checked, I can't see that it's transmitting any light but on the front of the camera you can see a faint red dot.

Jon Shohet · May 30th, 2012, 02:56 AM

Thanks Noa, that's helpful to know.

David Dalton · May 30th, 2012, 10:07 AM

On the Canon C300 forum there's a posting

C300 Shooting in a Darkroom ... a very Darkroom !

May be useful.

Jon Shohet · May 30th, 2012, 01:51 PM

Useful indeed. Impressive results. Not a cheap camera to rent, but definitely looks like an option.

Noa Put · May 30th, 2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dalton

On the Canon C300 forum there's a posting

C300 Shooting in a Darkroom ... a very Darkroom !

May be useful.

How does the c300 film under these circumstances, with very high gain? If that would be the case a Sony FS100 would be a cheaper option to rent as it can record at very (maybe equally?) high gain values as well.

Jon Shohet · May 30th, 2012, 02:18 PM

Well the video in Mark Moreve's post says iso 20,000 and lens at f2.8, so with a faster lens it could be even more sensitive. There surely a few cameras that would be cheaper to rent than the C300 but still improve on my 60D's low light sensitivity. FS100, maybe the D800, 5DIII, probably even the 5DII should be an improvement?
In any case, I'll probably do the first test with my 60D and a fast lens. With ML I can go as high as iso 12800. We'll test the results and then we'll have a think about if and what camera to rent.

I'll also try to see if Mark has any advice

May 28th, 2012, 05:44 AM	#1
Jon Shohet Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 277	Video in a darkroom Hi all, I've been asked to shoot of video of the process of printing black and white photos in a darkroom. The video should show the images developing in the developer tray. Unfortunately, I cannot add any lights, not even additional red lights, as the darkroom where I need to shoot will be shared by other people. Has anyone here ever attempted something like this? Is this even possible? I have a canon 60D. My fastest lens is the plastic fantastic (50 1.8). Should I rent a faster lens? Will an infrared modified body help out in any way? Any help and suggestion greatly appreciated, thanks.

May 28th, 2012, 12:23 PM	#2
Colin McDonald Trustee Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 1,546	Re: Video in a darkroom I've seen footage like this, but I don't know how it was done. A couple of things occurred to me: When I used to do B&W 35mm D&P the safelights for printing were more yellow than red; you would have to be careful that any LEDs and the LCD on your camera didn't leak non-safe light. Can you get a chance to try out filming in the darkroom with just the safelight without anyone else there? At least you would find out if you can capture any images at all. Oh, and focussing will likely be a real bggr. :-)

May 28th, 2012, 12:46 PM	#3
Jon Shohet Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 277	Re: Video in a darkroom Thanks Colin. Yes you right, safelights for B&W are apparently amber not red, as it seems from doing a bit more research. Never done any darkroom work in my life, unfortunately ;) Also good point about blocking stray light from the video camera itself. I'm trying to find out from the darkroom operators if it's at all possible to add additional safelights to the darkroom. If not, I will make a test with the fastest lens I can get and high iso, and see if the results are acceptable. However, since each darkroom session costs money (of course), and since deadline for completion of this project is close, I was hoping maybe someone has an ingenious idea about shooting video in darkroom before I make my first test at the end of this week... cheers

May 28th, 2012, 04:54 PM	#4
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: Video in a darkroom The only time I've done a darkroom sequence, we faked it. It was shot on film, so it was a while ago. Having other people using the darkroom is rather inconvenient.

May 28th, 2012, 05:42 PM	#5
Allan Black Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sydney. Posts: 2,887	Re: Video in a darkroom Yes fake it and have the narrator explain why. You could inject some humour into it .. start then turn all the lights out to emphasis why they call it a 'darkroom.' Cheers. __________________ Drink more tap water. On admission at Sydney hospitals more than 5% of day patients are de-hydrated.

May 28th, 2012, 07:04 PM	#6
Seth Bloombaum Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,420	Re: Video in a darkroom Yes, fake it! As I recall, the image comes up from white to b&w over a 2-minute period or so. I would find a way to do the establishing shots with good light in the darkroom - will they give you a reduced rate for exclusive use at midnight-4am? Then, a 10-second dissolve from white to b&w on a locked-off shot, with a legend that says "elapsed time = 2 minutes" or some such. Shooting something like this in a shared working environment where other people reasonably expect to be productive is crazy talk, in my opinion. It's just going to hurt relationships with fellow photogs, and the facility. __________________ 30 years of pro media production. Vegas user since 1.0. Webcaster since 1997. Freelancer since 2000. College instructor since 2001.

May 29th, 2012, 04:49 AM	#7
Jon Shohet Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 277	Re: Video in a darkroom Guys, thanks. Unfortunately, faking it is not an option in this case. This is not a narrative/documentary, the black and white image appearing on the white paper is exactly what the artist doing this project is interested in capturing, not the darkroom surroundings or happenings. If we cannot manage to get decent footage of this process, we'll probably scrap the project entirely. We will not be doing anything without the darkroom operators' permission, but your point is a valid one, Seth. We're doing our best to find a time slot to have the darkroom for ourselves, or at the very least a secluded part of it so that we don't disturb/get disturbed by other users. What I'm still trying to figure out is if there is any specialized camera I can rent that would be better suited for the task than my 60D.

May 29th, 2012, 06:15 AM	#8
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Video in a darkroom Would a small handicam (or I think also a canon xf100 has it) with that night vision gimmick don't do the trick? But I guess it will transmit unsafe light as well to see in the dark.

May 30th, 2012, 02:43 AM	#9
Jon Shohet Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 277	Re: Video in a darkroom I had an old Sony Hi8 camcorder with that gimmick. Don't remember how it works, if it emits any light. Not really the look we're going for, but if nothing else works I may give it a try if it doesn't emit any light.

May 30th, 2012, 02:54 AM	#10
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Video in a darkroom You can always replace that green colour with any other in post or just turn it to black and white, I just remembered that my sony xr520 has night vision so I checked, I can't see that it's transmitting any light but on the front of the camera you can see a faint red dot.

May 30th, 2012, 02:56 AM	#11
Jon Shohet Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 277	Re: Video in a darkroom Thanks Noa, that's helpful to know.

May 30th, 2012, 10:07 AM	#12
David Dalton Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Uckfield, UK Posts: 69	Re: Video in a darkroom On the Canon C300 forum there's a posting C300 Shooting in a Darkroom ... a very Darkroom ! May be useful.

May 30th, 2012, 01:51 PM	#13
Jon Shohet Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 277	Re: Video in a darkroom Useful indeed. Impressive results. Not a cheap camera to rent, but definitely looks like an option.

May 30th, 2012, 02:18 PM	#15
Jon Shohet Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 277	Re: Video in a darkroom Well the video in Mark Moreve's post says iso 20,000 and lens at f2.8, so with a faster lens it could be even more sensitive. There surely a few cameras that would be cheaper to rent than the C300 but still improve on my 60D's low light sensitivity. FS100, maybe the D800, 5DIII, probably even the 5DII should be an improvement? In any case, I'll probably do the first test with my 60D and a fast lens. With ML I can go as high as iso 12800. We'll test the results and then we'll have a think about if and what camera to rent. I'll also try to see if Mark has any advice