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-   -   New and need help for son with Autism (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/open-dv-discussion/532442-new-need-help-son-autism.html)

Michael L. Johnson August 14th, 2016 02:03 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Hey Everyone:

I have some more questions in a business sense. Can travel expenses mileage, lodging, meals, be written off ? Can equipment purchases be written off in the year they are made, or do they have to be depreciated over several years ?

I am almost certainly going to be purchasing a monitor/recorder no matter which camera I end up buying. I think it will greatly aid Mackenzie's task. Does anyone have any thoughts ?

Thanks,

Mike

Mike Watson August 14th, 2016 02:23 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
You should consult a licensed tax advisor with your tax questions. In a legitimate business environment, business expenses can be written off. You can depreciate assets instead of writing them off.

You are really putting the cart ahead of the horse here. Start small. Grow.

The same advice I give to indy filmmakers applies to you. Take whatever you have - your cell phone, your point & shoot camera, your DSLR - and go out and make a film. Make 10. Make 100. When you cannot possibly move forward without a tool, buy it. Do not buy everything you need up front. First, you never get to the end of the list if things you "need", and second, you have no idea what you'll need until you make 1 or 10 or 100 films. I would gladly tell you what you need, except I need vastly different things than you. If you buy everything I need, you'll have all the wrong stuff.

Tomorrow, take your cell phone and your kid and go out and take video of a construction site. Take it home and edit it. Do not shoot for 8 hours or 12 hours, shoot for 15 or 30 minutes. Do this every day, or several times a week. In a month, show us what you've got and come back with a list of complaints about your footage. We'll help you move forward.

Karl Walter Keirstead August 14th, 2016 06:04 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Good advice . . . .

I took one year to decide what equipment to buy.

I had been in/out of photography since the 1970s but did not have any experience in video.

I started with a small JVC mini-camcorder and followed your suggested approach (every day, 15/30 mins) - I spent as much time learning about recording as editing.

I bought the AC-AG160A after one year of research.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Watson (Post 1919246)
You should consult a licensed tax advisor with your tax questions. In a legitimate business environment, business expenses can be written off. You can depreciate assets instead of writing them off.

You are really putting the cart ahead of the horse here. Start small. Grow.

The same advice I give to indy filmmakers applies to you. Take whatever you have - your cell phone, your point & shoot camera, your DSLR - and go out and make a film. Make 10. Make 100. When you cannot possibly move forward without a tool, buy it. Do not buy everything you need up front. First, you never get to the end of the list if things you "need", and second, you have no idea what you'll need until you make 1 or 10 or 100 films. I would gladly tell you what you need, except I need vastly different things than you. If you buy everything I need, you'll have all the wrong stuff.

Tomorrow, take your cell phone and your kid and go out and take video of a construction site. Take it home and edit it. Do not shoot for 8 hours or 12 hours, shoot for 15 or 30 minutes. Do this every day, or several times a week. In a month, show us what you've got and come back with a list of complaints about your footage. We'll help you move forward.


Ed Roo August 14th, 2016 08:20 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
I will echo a couple of the items Mike and Karl have posted.

I, too, took a year to research cameras, mics and lights before I made my purchases. I spent about $10,000 before I even shot a minute of tape. One year later, I realized I could do everything I was doing with less expensive equipment and spent less than $1,000 doing it. Lessons learned.

After ten years, I purchased a new flash memory based camera to replace my old tape based camera. That was $4,000. Why? because over the ten years, I have expanded the types of things I shoot, and I now need the camera with more bells and whistles.

Having said that, along the way, a couple years ago, I purchased a Canon HF R300 for $250. It is a small handheld, consumer camcorder, but most importantly, it has a microphone input and a headphone output as well as a 50x optical zoom. This is my "travel cam". Combined with small LED lights on monopods, a tripod for the camcorder and a small shotgun and battery powered lavelier mic, I have a setup that I can take on location and set up in a matter of minutes. I used it two weeks ago for two interviews. The first included shots lakeside and in a motor boat. The second was in a museum. The quality is excellent!

As has been said, the movie The Blair Witch Project proved that audio is more important than video. Spend you money on a good microphone! If you cannot hear the sounds you want to hear, all the high definition video is useless.

I still use the bigger camcorder, but it is better suited for studio use when I have multiple interviews.

Ed Roo August 14th, 2016 08:48 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Another portable that I am using is an iPad Mini 3 with the Filmic Pro application.

This is an excellent starter kit if you already have an iPhone or iPad. The application provides full control of aperature, shutter speed, white balance and zoom. Rode makes several excellent microphones for iDevices and provides a free app to control the audio.

You can get started for less than $75! And it is fast to set up and record!

Mike Watson August 14th, 2016 09:12 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
I wanted to chime in with (more) advice I give indy film makers.

I say "show me your phone". And they pull out their phone. Most folks carry an iPhone, the remainder carry an Android of some sort.

"Tell me about the camera on that phone."

The iPhone shoots 4K pixels. The Androids vary, of course, but somewhere between 2K and 4K and most people don't know anyway.

My Beta 300, which I still shot on WELL into the 2000s, shot 480p. If you are into the "2K" and "4K" scale, 480p is 0.35K. Not 1K. Not 2K. Certainly not 4K.

I produced Emmy Award winning TV that showed nationally and internationally on a $50,000 camera that produced an image size that is 90% worse than the device you keep in your pocket. Your iPhone shoots better in low light, your phone records clearer audio, your phone has more dynamic range. You are not shooting films because you don't have a camera good enough, and yet the camera that you travel with literally everwhere is 10x better than the cameras you watched every TV program on growing up.

The camera is not the problem.

Noa Put August 15th, 2016 12:53 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
The problem is that Michael wants to avoid explaining his son why he doesn't have to go through a Iphone lcd screen to change a camera setting because now can do the same with a physical button on the side of his new real videocamera when he upgrades. He did explain in the beginning that it is much harder to unteach him something so the type of camera he gets now does matter.

My personal pick out of Michaels list of camera's would be the dvx200, it has all the features you would expect from a professional camera and it has button positions that will be very similar with other brands that share the same formfactor. The dvx200 is a productionready camera and still cheaper then a fs5 which was also on Michaels list and which quickly can become twice as expensive as a dvx200 once you start buying lenses so it actually is not that expensive if you consider it has a very good lens build right in.

You do have to factor in the cost of a external mike as that doesn't come with this camera and get a very good tripod as that is equally important as your camera choice and then you are ready to start.

For your NLE choice I would also pick a more professional and fully featured NLE and not something like imovie or moviemaker because for the same reasoning as mentioned before, if you ever want to switch to a better NLE you have to start all over again to learn how to deal with the program which will be a very difficult task for someone that is autistic.

Other then that I would not get any accessories from the start but build it up as you move along, once you start shooting you will find out what you miss, you can't know that now, just see to it that you get the basics right and like suggested by others, shoot, shoot and shoot again and learn for the mistakes you will be making.

Karl Walter Keirstead August 15th, 2016 03:17 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Interesting to see that there are others who spend a lot of time selecting equipment. Many cannot take the time to do this.

Reviews can help with your equipment acquisition process . . .

HD Warrior does a good job reviewing video equipment..

One of the gadgets Philip Johnston reviewed was the DJI Osmo. Hand-held walkabout cameras are not yet there but the DJI Osmo seems to be best in class.

https://www.engadget.com/2015/10/31/dji-osmo-review/

If you have been following Rio 2016, you have probably noticed the configurations that many of the videographers are using (huge cams, massive rigs).

I am almost convinced that when you do go in to a store to buy equipment, as you are walking out the front door with your purchases, a truck is rolling up at the back door with newer, higher functionality, less expensive equipment.

The thing is it's what you do with the equipment you have that is important

it has long been my view that the order of importance is a) storyline b) audio c) lighting d) camera. This in no way diminishes the value of good video recordings but if the storyline is boring or nonsensical and if you cannot hear what is going on, the rest does not matter,

Noa Put August 15th, 2016 03:43 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

It has long been my view that the order of importance is a) storyline b) audio c) lighting d) camera.
You need to think from a autistic persons perspective what many here don't do, this means you have to take another approach and your order of importance might not apply in exactly that order.

Karl Walter Keirstead August 15th, 2016 04:07 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1919267)
You need to think from a autistic persons perspective what many here don't do, this means you have to take another approach and your order of importance might not apply in exactly that order.

Good point . . . .

It's my understanding the purpose of the initiative is to create a business. As with most businesses, multiple skills are needed and these rarely will be present in one individual. If one person does have all of the required skills, that person is likely to be too busy to perform all of them contemporaneously.

For me, the order needs to stay and the challenge becomes rationalizing which functions Mackenzie wants and is able to perform.

Ed Roo August 15th, 2016 07:26 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1919267)
You need to think from a autistic persons perspective what many here don't do, this means you have to take another approach and your order of importance might not apply in exactly that order.

Noa, I agree with you about thinking from the autistic point of view... change is usually hard for them because they tend to be "rules" based. If they have a rule, they will follow it. When they don't have a rule, they become confused. Best example, if you tell someone with Aspergers to go sit down in a room full of chairs and couches, they may just stand there and look around the room. If you are specific, "Go sit in the red chair", they know exactly what to do. So yes, changing equipment may be problematic.

I do agree with Karl on the order of importance. You are selling a story line, how you get there isn't necessarily dependent on the camera. You can do a lot with good a story and audio. The listeners imagination will supply the visuals.

Noa Put August 15th, 2016 07:47 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
I do agree with Karl on the order of importance as well, but that is when I would apply to myself, only Michael knows his son best and how he reacts to change (I know from what my daugther tells me that some of her autistic children in her class can completely lock up and react very violently if they cannot deal with a change) but if I had to make a change on Karl's list I put the camera first and choose one that has a design and featureset that is common among these semi-professional camera's and then in the future stick with these type of camera's. If he would use an iphone to teach his son to film and after a year give him a professional camera it would probably take him more time to unteach why he cannot use the lcd screen anymore to change settings, I feel he will be best served with a good camera from the start so that after a while when his son masters the camera Michael can focus more on storytelling.

Mike Watson August 15th, 2016 09:58 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
We have a member on this board with Aspergers, Jack Zhang, you should PM him.

Edit: My 1,000th post! After merely 10 years! :-)

Steven Digges August 15th, 2016 10:46 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Hey Gentleman,

Here is my take on the camera choice thing. First, in an ordinary situation my view is exactly like Mike Watson's. I tell the average beginner the same thing. Learn to shoot first, then worry about what camera to invest in. This is not an ordinary situation. I know little about Autism. So I am listening to Michael. It may seem crazy to us that a rookie would invest in something like an FS5 to start with. We might say "they are in over their head, why complicate things?” Michael has repeatedly said Mackenzie learns through different processes than we do and finds change difficult. So no matter what they choose I have to honor Michael’s judgement.

I am going to try and explain a little bit of what I do know about how our minds and bodies work. I am going to reference firearms. I am in no way making any kind of a political statement so please don’t go there. You can argue my point, but I will not off get off track and enter a firearms debate.

Shooting with a firearm has much in common with shooting with a video camera. A video guy might make the statement “The truck was rolling away from me and I was about to miss the shot but my finger instinctively found the iris wheel and cranked it down. That saved the shot.” That is an erroneous statement. There is nothing in your DNA or brain that makes shooting with a video camera “instinctual”.

When you meet a person for the first time, you look into their eyes and shake their hand you might instinctively decide if they are a good or bad person. That is instinct. A video camera is an inanimate object and there is nothing instinctual about it. In tactical/competitive firearms training what they know and pound into you is that your finger found the iris wheel because of something YOU developed called muscle memory. Muscle memory is something WE develop based on repetitive training, not instinct.

In the world of firearms training (and reality) they know that in a high stress situation the first thing to go is our fine motor skills. High stress situations are also often high speed situations. Our brains and hands do not handle these situations instinctively. The body and brain can revert to what it does know and has learned through repetitive training. We all know the more you train at something the better you are at it. The winner of a gunfight is often determined by the training level of each participant. The more training they have the better and faster they are able to handle their firearm through muscle memory, not instinct.

Shooting video can be stressful (don’t go crazy, I am not saying it is life or death). Let’s say “The truck was rolling away and I was about to miss the shot”. That is going to create some level of stress for all of us. Those of us that can find the iris wheel without looking for it might get the shot. Those that have to look for it will probably miss it. Muscle memory will make the difference.

Some of us like Noa, who buys a new camera every other week (satire, but almost true) can relearn and retrain his muscle memory very quickly. For others (ME) it might take longer. In both cases it takes repetitive training.

What I keep hearing Michael saying is Mackenzie has his own way of learning and training. He also says he does not modify his learned experiences easily. So therefore, I see why there is nothing wrong with starting with an FS5 (or whatever he chooses). He can put it on auto (where it will do a fine job) and introduce more complex features later. It is a financial risk not a training risk.

I did not surmise this, Michael has been saying it from the start. He knows his son ;-) All I did was write a lengthy post!

Kind Regards,

Steve

Ed Roo August 15th, 2016 11:31 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Michael, how far are you from NYC?

With B&H and Adorama there, you might consider a field trip with MacKenzie to allow him to tray different cameras.

Steven Digges August 15th, 2016 12:14 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Michael,

Here is another suggestion about how this board works. You mentioned shotgun mics. You have common misconceptions about how they work. But I will get to that, first the board.

DVINFO.net is an amazing place. It may not have the huge number of participants other forums have but that is part of its magic. The level of talent, dedication, and cooperativeness here is incredible.

This single thread is not going to get you all of the help you need. This is what I would suggest:

Double posting the same info in more than one section is highly frowned upon. The audio forum however can be a fantastic resource for you. There are true audio specialists that hang out there that are always willing to help the sincere poster. A couple of them are a little crusty but don’t get discouraged ;-)

You can introduce yourself and your situation there and then post a link to this thread and say this is where you gave detailed information about your situation. Then ask your audio questions in that new thread you started. The response may blow you away. Don’t be afraid to reach out to different sections. Some guys just monitor their own specialty section.

I am NOT a wrangler. I think what I said follows protocol. If not someone please correct me.

Quick shotgun answer: Shotgun mics do not reach out and collect far away sound. That is the common misconception. Distance vs pick up ability is a function of sensitivity, regardless of pick up pattern. With all directional mics the area of rejection is a soft wall, not a hard one. That means even with a shotgun mic if you are speaking over Mackenzie's shoulder it is probably going to pick up your voice.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Michael L. Johnson August 15th, 2016 07:25 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Watson (Post 1919246)
You should consult a licensed tax advisor with your tax questions. In a legitimate business environment, business expenses can be written off. You can depreciate assets instead of writing them off.

You are really putting the cart ahead of the horse here. Start small. Grow.

The same advice I give to indy filmmakers applies to you. Take whatever you have - your cell phone, your point & shoot camera, your DSLR - and go out and make a film. Make 10. Make 100. When you cannot possibly move forward without a tool, buy it. Do not buy everything you need up front. First, you never get to the end of the list if things you "need", and second, you have no idea what you'll need until you make 1 or 10 or 100 films. I would gladly tell you what you need, except I need vastly different things than you. If you buy everything I need, you'll have all the wrong stuff.

Tomorrow, take your cell phone and your kid and go out and take video of a construction site. Take it home and edit it. Do not shoot for 8 hours or 12 hours, shoot for 15 or 30 minutes. Do this every day, or several times a week. In a month, show us what you've got and come back with a list of complaints about your footage. We'll help you move forward.

Mike,

Thank you for the reply. Just thought I would ask people who already do this for a living

Michael

Michael L. Johnson August 15th, 2016 07:32 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Roo (Post 1919255)
I will echo a couple of the items Mike and Karl have posted.

I, too, took a year to research cameras, mics and lights before I made my purchases. I spent about $10,000 before I even shot a minute of tape. One year later, I realized I could do everything I was doing with less expensive equipment and spent less than $1,000 doing it. Lessons learned.

After ten years, I purchased a new flash memory based camera to replace my old tape based camera. That was $4,000. Why? because over the ten years, I have expanded the types of things I shoot, and I now need the camera with more bells and whistles.

Having said that, along the way, a couple years ago, I purchased a Canon HF R300 for $250. It is a small handheld, consumer camcorder, but most importantly, it has a microphone input and a headphone output as well as a 50x optical zoom. This is my "travel cam". Combined with small LED lights on monopods, a tripod for the camcorder and a small shotgun and battery powered lavelier mic, I have a setup that I can take on location and set up in a matter of minutes. I used it two weeks ago for two interviews. The first included shots lakeside and in a motor boat. The second was in a museum. The quality is excellent!

As has been said, the movie The Blair Witch Project proved that audio is more important than video. Spend you money on a good microphone! If you cannot hear the sounds you want to hear, all the high definition video is useless.

I still use the bigger camcorder, but it is better suited for studio use when I have multiple interviews.

Ed,

Thank you for the reply. You and Karl will not be alone. It will probably take meas long, maybe even longer to buy the camera(s). I am just that way. It took me 8 months to decide which television I was going to get (one of the last Panasonic Plasma screens, and took me over a year to decide on my car.

Through my reading and research, I am beginning to understand what you guys mean about the audio.

Thanks,

Michael

Michael L. Johnson August 15th, 2016 08:02 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges (Post 1919288)
Hey Gentleman,

Here is my take on the camera choice thing. First, in an ordinary situation my view is exactly like Mike Watson's. I tell the average beginner the same thing. Learn to shoot first, then worry about what camera to invest in. This is not an ordinary situation. I know little about Autism. So I am listening to Michael. It may seem crazy to us that a rookie would invest in something like an FS5 to start with. We might say "they are in over their head, why complicate things?” Michael has repeatedly said Mackenzie learns through different processes than we do and finds change difficult. So no matter what they choose I have to honor Michael’s judgement.

I am going to try and explain a little bit of what I do know about how our minds and bodies work. I am going to reference firearms. I am in no way making any kind of a political statement so please don’t go there. You can argue my point, but I will not off get off track and enter a firearms debate.

Shooting with a firearm has much in common with shooting with a video camera. A video guy might make the statement “The truck was rolling away from me and I was about to miss the shot but my finger instinctively found the iris wheel and cranked it down. That saved the shot.” That is an erroneous statement. There is nothing in your DNA or brain that makes shooting with a video camera “instinctual”.

When you meet a person for the first time, you look into their eyes and shake their hand you might instinctively decide if they are a good or bad person. That is instinct. A video camera is an inanimate object and there is nothing instinctual about it. In tactical/competitive firearms training what they know and pound into you is that your finger found the iris wheel because of something YOU developed called muscle memory. Muscle memory is something WE develop based on repetitive training, not instinct.

In the world of firearms training (and reality) they know that in a high stress situation the first thing to go is our fine motor skills. High stress situations are also often high speed situations. Our brains and hands do not handle these situations instinctively. The body and brain can revert to what it does know and has learned through repetitive training. We all know the more you train at something the better you are at it. The winner of a gunfight is often determined by the training level of each participant. The more training they have the better and faster they are able to handle their firearm through muscle memory, not instinct.

Shooting video can be stressful (don’t go crazy, I am not saying it is life or death). Let’s say “The truck was rolling away and I was about to miss the shot”. That is going to create some level of stress for all of us. Those of us that can find the iris wheel without looking for it might get the shot. Those that have to look for it will probably miss it. Muscle memory will make the difference.

Some of us like Noa, who buys a new camera every other week (satire, but almost true) can relearn and retrain his muscle memory very quickly. For others (ME) it might take longer. In both cases it takes repetitive training.

What I keep hearing Michael saying is Mackenzie has his own way of learning and training. He also says he does not modify his learned experiences easily. So therefore, I see why there is nothing wrong with starting with an FS5 (or whatever he chooses). He can put it on auto (where it will do a fine job) and introduce more complex features later. It is a financial risk not a training risk.

I did not surmise this, Michael has been saying it from the start. He knows his son ;-) All I did was write a lengthy post!

Kind Regards,

Steve

Steve,

You, Mike, Noa, Karl, and Ed made some good and valid points in the earlier posts on this page.

Noa, Ed, and Steve, You guys summed up things pretty well. Behavior wise, Mackenzie is and has been, ,for a number of years, in a very good place. My job is to keep it there, and I do that in many ways, one of which is the ordeal with this camera. Noa, I am sure your daughter uses behavior modification (even though she may not call it that) with her students. Most of these kids (probably 95%) my son included rely on predictability and things being the same. Changes in the routine have to be made slowly and in small steps (especially when they are younger).. I can only use Mackenzie as an example, but when he had behavior issues in the past, it almost always was a combination of a break in his routine and or frustration either because he could not make his needs/desires known (Knew what he wanted, just couldn't figure out out to express it), or did not understand what he was being asked or told to do.

Steve your use of the term muscle memory is I think, appropriate

Thank you, and really all of you, for the consideration you have been giving to me. It really means a lot

Michael

Michael L. Johnson August 15th, 2016 08:11 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Roo (Post 1919291)
Michael, how far are you from NYC?

With B&H and Adorama there, you might consider a field trip with MacKenzie to allow him to tray different cameras.


Ed,

I live a little over an hour from the city. Chris had mentioned in an earlier post that I should try that, and I told someone here that I might go and "graze" for a while. I am hoping at some point to narrow my choices down to two or three, and decide from there. It would be a good field trip though. The last time Mackenzie and I were in the city, we saw Bob Seger at MSG- good show.

Thanks,

Michael

Michael L. Johnson August 15th, 2016 08:13 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Digges (Post 1919292)
Michael,

Here is another suggestion about how this board works. You mentioned shotgun mics. You have common misconceptions about how they work. But I will get to that, first the board.

DVINFO.net is an amazing place. It may not have the huge number of participants other forums have but that is part of its magic. The level of talent, dedication, and cooperativeness here is incredible.

This single thread is not going to get you all of the help you need. This is what I would suggest:

Double posting the same info in more than one section is highly frowned upon. The audio forum however can be a fantastic resource for you. There are true audio specialists that hang out there that are always willing to help the sincere poster. A couple of them are a little crusty but don’t get discouraged ;-)

You can introduce yourself and your situation there and then post a link to this thread and say this is where you gave detailed information about your situation. Then ask your audio questions in that new thread you started. The response may blow you away. Don’t be afraid to reach out to different sections. Some guys just monitor their own specialty section.

I am NOT a wrangler. I think what I said follows protocol. If not someone please correct me.

Quick shotgun answer: Shotgun mics do not reach out and collect far away sound. That is the common misconception. Distance vs pick up ability is a function of sensitivity, regardless of pick up pattern. With all directional mics the area of rejection is a soft wall, not a hard one. That means even with a shotgun mic if you are speaking over Mackenzie's shoulder it is probably going to pick up your voice.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Steve,

Thank you for the advice about audio. I will follow your lead and introduce myself to that section of the forum.

Thanks,

Michael

Michael L. Johnson August 16th, 2016 08:48 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Hi Everyone:

With some of the discussion that has taken place here, I have been continuing my research, and have pretty much decided that, if I am going to do this, then a single lens camera is where I should be looking. I know it is not much, and only eliminates 2 cameras from my list, but it is a start. I am most curious what the new Panasonic UX 180 and UX 90 will be like when they come out this fall.

Thanks,

Michael

Gary Huff August 16th, 2016 09:34 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Michael, if you knew for a fact that any gear purchases you made would bring in zero dollars of revenue over the next five years, how much would you still be willing to spend on gear?

Michael L. Johnson August 16th, 2016 10:29 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Gary,

Thanks for the question. It is a hypothetical that in a similar form I have asked myself. My answer is the same as before your asked this important question. In my opening post, I stated that I was looking for a life and a career for my son. I still stand by that, even though the learning and training process will take a while (no one, not even me knows how long), and only after that can thoughts be turned to some type of production. I am prepared, in answer to your question, for it to take five years if it has to. My son is only 24, far too young to sing " turn out the lights, the party's over". I have a model and plan that I think will work. I am pretty confident in my teaching abilities, and in my ability to learn what I have to learn to do that teaching. If I am able to find a mentor, that will shorten the learning curve. We will never be as skilled as someone who has gone to film school, or received similar training, but do not sell us short. We may end up not being all that bad. Time will tell.


Michael

Michael L. Johnson August 16th, 2016 10:52 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff (Post 1919367)
Michael, if you knew for a fact that any gear purchases you made would bring in zero dollars of revenue over the next five years, how much would you still be willing to spend on gear?


Gary,

I did not really answer your question did I? If I can, I want technology if it is possible to be an aid in this endeavor. That means that if I have to spend $3000-$5000, or more on a camera I will do so if it is the best fit I can find for my son. The same philosophy goes for any and all other equipment that we/he might need.

I know that mindset is hard to understand so I will say this, Mackenzie went to a special school for children with Autism. For a good portion of those years (the early ones) I paid the tuition myself with no guarantees that it would make any difference ( slowly and surely it did), with only hope and hard work being the constants. Tuition per year was more than any college or university that I am aware of, more than Harvard, Stanford, Northwestern, etc..

I am not gloating, It is a tragedy that that type of effort has to be expended for a parent to help their child. In the end he made great gains, so how can I put a price on that. This business venture is the same (hopefully).

Michael

Mike Watson August 16th, 2016 10:53 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Can I reiterate, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, how little you should be concerned with learning videography, teaching it, your son learning it, what camera you buy, or how you compare to someone who's gone to film school...

But be quite concerned with your business model, what you will produce, how you will sell it, and whether anyone will pay for it.

I have 100% confidence that you and your son can learn to shoot. From a technical standpoint, there is a "full auto" setting on whatever camera you buy that will get you about 80% of where you need to go, and the rest of it (use a tripod, compose a shot) is not that hard to learn.

Michael L. Johnson August 16th, 2016 11:16 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Hi Mike:

Tonight is one of those nights, of which there are many where sleep eludes me. Mike, thank you for your post. It is not yet set in concrete, but i do have a model, I have thought about potential customers, and distribution, advertising, in other words if Mackenzie can do this, then we are good to go. If he can not learn the camera, then it will go no where. I have done a market analysis, studied google analytics , there is/are customer bases. Whatever else I need to study, learn or cover, I am planning to do during Mackenzie's learning time with the camera. There will be no shoddy film, it will be the best we can make, or we will not do it.

I'm sort of glad that you seem to think the camera part may be a given. I hope you are right.

Thanks,
Michael

Tim Lewis August 17th, 2016 07:51 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Hi Michael

I have been following this thread with interest. I think the necessarily general vagueness of your enquiries has been well addressed by good advice from caring members. I am not anywhere near as expert as any of them, but would like to add a couple of general comments that may help.

I shoot on a couple of Canon cameras that are very like the one Ed Roo mentioned. They have a microphone and headphone socket so I can capture better audio and monitor it. I have entered several of the DVC and UWOL contests with footage from these cameras. None of the feedback I received from those entries was to tell me the cameras technical abilities were substandard. These cameras are now seven years old and will do me until they break.

The point I am trying to make is that the construction and design of cameras these days uses fewer mechanical systems and moving parts, so there is so much less to wear out. A careful choice and caring use may well land you in excess of five years service life. Even HD footage will still look good in five years time, so my suggestion is choose the one that Mackenzie relates to most.

HTH

Tim

Gary Huff August 17th, 2016 08:06 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael L. Johnson (Post 1919368)
In my opening post, I stated that I was looking for a life and a career for my son. I still stand by that, even though the learning and training process will take a while (no one, not even me knows how long), and only after that can thoughts be turned to some type of production.

I understand that Michael, and that's my concern. By a "career", I assume you are looking at something he can do with video that will provide him an income that he can use to support himself? At least, that's what I assume when people use the word "career".

Quote:

I am prepared, in answer to your question, for it to take five years if it has to. My son is only 24, far too young to sing " turn out the lights, the party's over". I have a model and plan that I think will work.
To be frank, you're not the first person to have this mysterious "model" of a way to make money via video that they are reluctant to share. And 100% of those I have come across have made no money from their "mysterious model" (two are still trying while having a main job on the side, the rest have finally given up and gone into a completely different career).

The problem is two fallacies. One, that your idea is so precious that merely speaking it aloud would unleash the hounds and strip it away from you as other people steal your idea and run with it. The truth is, no one cares. Until you start making money with it, then they will rip you off anyway (just take a look at every tech startup).

The second fallacy is that you know it can work. But you don't know. You are brand new to this area and so you don't know what you don't know. There may be glaring issues with your model that you are blind two, simply from lack of experience. I deal with this all the time, people with no idea what it takes to accomplish some goal, and they feel that sheer will power will win the day. That's a Hollywood trope. The most likely scenario is that your model is is something that barely deviates from the myriad of attempts people have tried to make money with already, and that haven't worked. And being specific about can help those who have experience to point out what, to them, is obvious problems with your idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael L. Johnson (Post 1919373)
I have thought about potential customers, and distribution, advertising... I have done a market analysis, studied google analytics , there is/are customer bases.

And this does nothing to dissuade me that your model is any better than anyone else. They have the same response, and yet ideas and products fail all the time, with even better information than you probably have access to.

Quote:

We will never be as skilled as someone who has gone to film school, or received similar training, but do not sell us short. We may end up not being all that bad. Time will tell.
Well, I have dealt with some very unskilled film school graduates, and I have no issue with you taking the self-learning approach. I am a big fan, and feel that there's far too much emphasis on spending money for training when the best training is to go out and make something, fail, and learn from your mistakes. However, just because you are skilled does not mean you can make a career out of this. The skilled part really has no bearing if you are unable to utilize those skills in a way that strangers will want to give you money for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael L. Johnson (Post 1919370)
I did not really answer your question did I? If I can, I want technology if it is possible to be an aid in this endeavor. That means that if I have to spend $3000-$5000, or more on a camera I will do so if it is the best fit I can find for my son. The same philosophy goes for any and all other equipment that we/he might need.

And that is the million dollar question. You were willing to spend untold amounts of money for the special school, and say you saw an improvement. But a career is different. You will have numbers that glare at you if they aren't adding up. A career allows you to be financially sufficient, and if not, then you'll really have to spin the results in order to make it a positive if a career is the ultimate end goal. You could spend $8000-$10000 (or more) over a period of ten years and be no closer to a career for your son than you currently are.

Take hope out of the equation. If you knew for a fact that would be the end result, would you still do what you are planning to do?

Ultimately, if you elect to maintain the secrecy of your building model, and if you're adverse to putting X amount of dollars into something that would have zero gains in a decade, then I would say to pick the cheapest gear you can so that you can avoid the sunk cost fallacy for as long as possible.

Reed Gidez August 17th, 2016 08:07 AM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
This thread proves just what an amazing community we have here.

I think I've read through most of the previous posts here and I realize this is mainly about what gear is appropriate (I find myself struggling with this at times). Lots of great resources in NYC with he big retailers but have you checked into your local public access tv station? You and your son might get some decent hands-on experience/instruction and there will likely be a volunteer or two (or more) willing to mentor your son. You may also have access to try some equipment before buying.

Here's a link to the Waterbury station About | Skye Cable XIII

-Reed

Karl Walter Keirstead August 17th, 2016 12:31 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Gary Huff's caveats are worth taking note of.

My day job is management consulting and I meet people every day who are evolving business models across different industry areas.

The thing is there are many dimensions to most businesses. Perceived value of a product/service is what counts.

Each model has what Donald Rumsfeld plus a few others categorized into "known knowns, known unknowns, unknown knowns and unknown unknowns". Sounds silly, but it isn't.

Each initiative has risk and uncertainty and any model anyone makes needs close watching as things can change during implementation.

I have written 250+ blog articles on business management over the past few years - take a look at https://kwkeirstead.wordpress.com/

If you suffer from insomnia, my blog provides an instant remedy.

Michael L. Johnson August 17th, 2016 03:33 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Lewis (Post 1919394)
Hi Michael

I have been following this thread with interest. I think the necessarily general vagueness of your enquiries has been well addressed by good advice from caring members. I am not anywhere near as expert as any of them, but would like to add a couple of general comments that may help.

I shoot on a couple of Canon cameras that are very like the one Ed Roo mentioned. They have a microphone and headphone socket so I can capture better audio and monitor it. I have entered several of the DVC and UWOL contests with footage from these cameras. None of the feedback I received from those entries was to tell me the cameras technical abilities were substandard. These cameras are now seven years old and will do me until they break.

The point I am trying to make is that the construction and design of cameras these days uses fewer mechanical systems and moving parts, so there is so much less to wear out. A careful choice and caring use may well land you in excess of five years service life. Even HD footage will still look good in five years time, so my suggestion is choose the one that Mackenzie relates to most.

HTH

Tim

Tim,

Thank you for the reply.

Michael

Steven Digges August 17th, 2016 03:34 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
This thread is now on page five and it is a great thread. The DVINFO community is coming together to assist someone who has asked for assistance. This forum at its best!

I am encouraging everyone to post. This thread has an unusual caviotte to it. I'll bet there are even many lurkers out there with knowledge of Autism reading this thread. If you do this would be a great time to jump in the water and join us. We don't bite (much).

This is not really my place to say it, but I will anyway, When posting please read what has already been said :-)

Kind Regards,

Steve

Also: Anytime is a great time to join DVINFO.net Everyone is always welcome here on the greatest forum on the internet!

Michael L. Johnson August 17th, 2016 03:59 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff (Post 1919396)
I understand that Michael, and that's my concern. By a "career", I assume you are looking at something he can do with video that will provide him an income that he can use to support himself? At least, that's what I assume when people use the word "career".



To be frank, you're not the first person to have this mysterious "model" of a way to make money via video that they are reluctant to share. And 100% of those I have come across have made no money from their "mysterious model" (two are still trying while having a main job on the side, the rest have finally given up and gone into a completely different career).

The problem is two fallacies. One, that your idea is so precious that merely speaking it aloud would unleash the hounds and strip it away from you as other people steal your idea and run with it. The truth is, no one cares. Until you start making money with it, then they will rip you off anyway (just take a look at every tech startup).

The second fallacy is that you know it can work. But you don't know. You are brand new to this area and so you don't know what you don't know. There may be glaring issues with your model that you are blind two, simply from lack of experience. I deal with this all the time, people with no idea what it takes to accomplish some goal, and they feel that sheer will power will win the day. That's a Hollywood trope. The most likely scenario is that your model is is something that barely deviates from the myriad of attempts people have tried to make money with already, and that haven't worked. And being specific about can help those who have experience to point out what, to them, is obvious problems with your idea.



And this does nothing to dissuade me that your model is any better than anyone else. They have the same response, and yet ideas and products fail all the time, with even better information than you probably have access to.



Well, I have dealt with some very unskilled film school graduates, and I have no issue with you taking the self-learning approach. I am a big fan, and feel that there's far too much emphasis on spending money for training when the best training is to go out and make something, fail, and learn from your mistakes. However, just because you are skilled does not mean you can make a career out of this. The skilled part really has no bearing if you are unable to utilize those skills in a way that strangers will want to give you money for.



And that is the million dollar question. You were willing to spend untold amounts of money for the special school, and say you saw an improvement. But a career is different. You will have numbers that glare at you if they aren't adding up. A career allows you to be financially sufficient, and if not, then you'll really have to spin the results in order to make it a positive if a career is the ultimate end goal. You could spend $8000-$10000 (or more) over a period of ten years and be no closer to a career for your son than you currently are.

Take hope out of the equation. If you knew for a fact that would be the end result, would you still do what you are planning to do?

Ultimately, if you elect to maintain the secrecy of your building model, and if you're adverse to putting X amount of dollars into something that would have zero gains in a decade, then I would say to pick the cheapest gear you can so that you can avoid the sunk cost fallacy for as long as possible.


Gary,

Thanks for the reply, and the words of "encouragement" Wow. I have never said that I had a "mysterious model" for my business. In fact, I stated plainly in my first post that the the intention was for my son to film and ultimately sell his production. I have said that our filming will start with big rig trucks, but I had other thoughts as well.

I have done the research, which you seem to discount, that there is a viable market for this type of production. I have not reinvented the wheel here. I said I know it can work, simply because it already is..My intention is to get a little slice of the pie of the market that already exists,.

I admit that I do not know everything about starting and running a business, but I know enough and I guess you will just have to take my word on that, unless, as I said to someone else, you are implying a person needs an MBA from Harvard to successfully start and run a business.

With the exception of a couple of questions about taxes, I have never asked about anything but what this forum is about. I came here to seek guidance in helping my son to learn and use (to start with) a camera, I have explained many times why I have to go the route I am with the camera.

Bottom line is this, If Mackenzie can not do the filming, then the rest of it does not matter. If you wish to" critique" my (to you) lack of business knowledge further, I suggest you PM me, so this discussion on this thread can revert to topic. If you do that, I may be able to allay your concerns.

Michael

Gary Huff August 17th, 2016 04:02 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael L. Johnson (Post 1919443)
I have said that our filming will start with big rig trucks, but I had other thoughts as well.

What are your other thoughts? What kind of filming are you planning to do with "big rig trucks"? You have said it's not stock footage, is this a show? "Video emails"? What explicitly will this production be?

Michael L. Johnson August 17th, 2016 04:08 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Reed Gidez (Post 1919397)
This thread proves just what an amazing community we have here.

I think I've read through most of the previous posts here and I realize this is mainly about what gear is appropriate (I find myself struggling with this at times). Lots of great resources in NYC with he big retailers but have you checked into your local public access tv station? You and your son might get some decent hands-on experience/instruction and there will likely be a volunteer or two (or more) willing to mentor your son. You may also have access to try some equipment before buying.

Here's a link to the Waterbury station About | Skye Cable XIII

-Reed

Reed,

Thank you for the reply. I know it would make things a lot easier if I had a mentor. My initial thoughts as I have said was to start with a video club..It appears that there are no video clubs in my immediate area. I believe either Steve or Ed suggested as you have that I should expand my search for a mentor further a field, to include collages, universities, and television stations, which I intend to do.

You are right, this is an amazing community. Thanks again for the reply.

Michael

Jon Fairhurst August 17th, 2016 04:40 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
One thing I've learned is that video is a "people" business. That can be tough for somebody with autism (or Asperger's, which I'm more familiar with.)

Some of the people aspects are:
1) marketing
2) negotiating the deal
3) understanding client requirements
4) getting a team together for audio, lighting, post, and so on.
5) dealing with things that didn't meet expectations

And then there's the issue of making videos with the right emotional connection, mood, message, etc. The difference between an authentic feeling video and something that "off" can be amazingly subtle.

If there are interviews involved, one needs to play therapist sometimes in order to coax a good story and delivery from the subject. This requires a real confidence and mastery to do well.

The filming part is relatively simple. One can bolt a GoPro on a moving object, make sure the battery is charged and the memory formatted, hit REC and go. Technically, that's easy. It's the artistic part that makes the difference.

Quick story: I once met a guy with a music composition degree who made a living baking pizzas. He came across as super depressed. A real downer. For all I know, he was the greatest composer on the planet. But it was clear that he lacked the salesmanship and people skills to get highly competitive film scoring jobs, let alone a commission with a symphony orchestra. Frankly, his instructors had failed him as a career in composing is about far more than just notes.

How about video effects work? Can your son learn some tricks in After Effects?

If you go to the NAB trade show, you'll see that it has a split personality. Central Hall has cameras, lighting, and production equipment and it's bright and full of extroverts. People are roaming, cameras and mics in hand. South Hall, on the other hand, has post production tools. It's dark and introverts sit and watch presentations of experts operating software.

There are video effects jobs like, "remove that telephone poll from the next 1000 frames of video and replace it with a realistic background." It can be mind-numbing, solitary work. Of course, one needs to develop the technical skills to make it happen. That said, something like this would suit my nephews with Asperger's to a tee. They do better with computer screens than with people. And they can obsess for hours on closed tasks. That said, I have no idea if this would suit your son.

In any case, I really respect your efforts and wish you and your son the best success.

Michael L. Johnson August 17th, 2016 04:41 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Hey Everyone.

I know that I have not decided on a camera yet, but let us assume that it is going to be a fixed lens type. Let us further say that we have progressed to turning it on and used it in "auto" mode. As I teach Mackenzie in this hypothetical, where should I start ? What is the first thing you guys learned ? I need to approach this carefully, and if possible teach things in a sequence, learning one aspect of the camera before moving on to another. I know it all is interactive, and meshes together to form a whole, but at first, given his learning style I probably need to take it a piece at a time. He may surprise me, (he frequently does), but in advance planning for this step, the breaking down of the operation of the camera into small steps seems like where I will start.

Thanks

Michael

Noa Put August 17th, 2016 04:48 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Just go out and shoot, the questions will start to come after that.

Michael L. Johnson August 17th, 2016 04:54 PM

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst (Post 1919448)
One thing I've learned is that video is a "people" business. That can be tough for somebody with autism (or Asperger's, which I'm more familiar with.)

Some of the people aspects are:
1) marketing
2) negotiating the deal
3) understanding client requirements
4) getting a team together for audio, lighting, post, and so on.
5) dealing with things that didn't meet expectations

And then there's the issue of making videos with the right emotional connection, mood, message, etc. The difference between an authentic feeling video and something that "off" can be amazingly subtle.

If there are interviews involved, one needs to play therapist sometimes in order to coax a good story and delivery from the subject. This requires a real confidence and mastery to do well.

The filming part is relatively simple. One can bolt a GoPro on a moving object, make sure the battery is charged and the memory formatted, hit REC and go. Technically, that's easy. It's the artistic part that makes the difference.

Quick story: I once met a guy with a music composition degree who made a living baking pizzas. He came across as super depressed. A real downer. For all I know, he was the greatest composer on the planet. But it was clear that he lacked the salesmanship and people skills to get highly competitive film scoring jobs, let alone a commission with a symphony orchestra. Frankly, his instructors had failed him as a career in composing is about far more than just notes.

How about video effects work? Can your son learn some tricks in After Effects?

If you go to the NAB trade show, you'll see that it has a split personality. Central Hall has cameras, lighting, and production equipment and it's bright and full of extroverts. People are roaming, cameras and mics in hand. South Hall, on the other hand, has post production tools. It's dark and introverts sit and watch presentations of experts operating software.

There are video effects jobs like, "remove that telephone poll from the next 1000 frames of video and replace it with a realistic background." It can be mind-numbing, solitary work. Of course, one needs to develop the technical skills to make it happen. That said, something like this would suit my nephews with Asperger's to a tee. They do better with computer screens than with people. And they can obsess for hours on closed tasks. That said, I have no idea if this would suit your son.

In any case, I really respect your efforts and wish you and your son the best success.

Jon,

Thanks for the reply. Mackenzie is not a people person. That is why (beyond the interest that he has), we will be filming things like trucks, construction equipment, ships, planes, trains, etc. not really much of a story there except for filming them doing what they do.

Once he learns the technical details of editing, the work itself will appeal to him. As with your nephew, tedious, repetitive, computer work is something Mackenzie could do all day long.

Once again, thank you for the reply.

Michael


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