Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

This is what I do when I am not getting payed to shoot: https://vimeo.com/album/2256730, I just pick a random subject, go out and just have fun and shoot and usually edit it the same day. Films like this have been my learningschool for all these years, I can experiment as much as I want and more important, make mistakes which I can use to learn from (or in your case, post work here and ask for constructive feedback), that experience I take with me on my payed shoots.

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Thanks Noa, I am sure that is sound advice, but with Mackenzie, I need to lesson plan and provide structure. I know I am asking you, and everyone else to think outside the box, but everything has to be broken up into small steps to be effectively taught and mastered, and the goal here is to learn a camera and it's use. It has been that way with tooth brushing, shower taking, etc, the difference this time is learning a camera. Think of it this way, in order to learn to add and subtract, and more, one has to learn the numbers on a number line first. Then addition is taught, followed by subtraction, then multiplication, finally division. After that come fractions, those terrible word problems, algebra and so on.

Mackenzie learning and using a camera in "auto" mode is the number line. I am asking what is the "addition" step, to be followed by "subtraction", "multiplication", "division" etc.

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

An additional possibility is timelapse and hyperlapse photography. This can be more technical than straight videography, but it also has an obsessive appeal. And it's a natural fit with construction sites, ships, and other large, slow-moving objects. Sometimes, it needs detailed post work to take out flicker and other unwanted variations.


To do this, one needs to do planning, be a perfectionist (get it right the first time!), be very patient, and essentially act as security guard for the equipment. And then they need to handle all that data. It's not the place to start, but might be a good target down the road.

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Framing and composition.

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

This does not instill hope in me that you have a viable model for building a career (i.e. something that can bring in enough money to allow an individual to support himself economically). Who do you expect to pay money for this kind of footage? Are you planning a YouTube channel? Sell to networks? Is this going to be iStock/Getty/Shutterstock after all?

It is a good idea for a hobby, something to be passionate about, but this will not make even enough money to recoup a basic gear package purchase. I would recommend the most decent sub-$1000 camera you can find, unless you have no problem with spending more if you knew for a fact it would not lead to any income generation.

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Chris

Thanks for the reply ! I know my questions are and will be often a pain in the rear,but I have to take the best practice knowledge from my friends here, which far exceeds my own rudimentary knowledge of the field and then try to modify it to fit Mackenzie's learning style.

Thanks,

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Gary

Thanks for the post. Are your comments speculation, or have you done the research that explains your suppositions ? I have done research ( lots of it) and one vendor, as an example,( there are others) doing nothing but what I have described Mackenzie will be doing makes a very comfortable living, well beyond basic equipment costs. That business is just one sub niche of the effort that Mackenzie will be making. These facts are out there, you just have to do the research to get beyond your own preconceived notions. I assure you, I am not making things up, and I can read a financial statement, and I have read several from different entities basically doing this "simple" thing with filming that for whatever reason, you are so dismissive of..

Mackenzie will never make a "Gone With The Wind", but if he is able to do this, for him it will be a big accomplishment, and yes, if I set this up properly, teach him adequately, and then support him when needed, then yes he can make a career of this. Thank you for your support.

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Which vendor/vendors are you referring to explicitly?

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Don't you mean specifically ?

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Gary

I get your points, kinda, but to me, at this juncture you are beating a dead horse. The first task is to teach my son how to use and then successfully operate a camera. If he can do that, then we will move on to the next step. If he can not do that, then anything else that may follow will not matter anyway. I have made clear, I think, that I would spend what it took, expend every effort, move any mountain, to make this a success. I am sorry if that offends you, I am just doing what I thought a father is supposed to do.

By the way, if I buy a $3000,$5000, or more camera, all the eqipment that goes with it like a tripod, etc, a new computer and software to do editing, and anything else Mackenzie may need to do this, and in the end it does not work, and he can not make a career of this, it will not bother me in the least. I at least tried. If this fails, i will just go on to the next thing. As I have said I have never wanted to look back and say "I wish I would have done this" or" I should have done that". When it comes to my son no effort is too much.

Now if you wish to help me in my goal of teaching my son to learn and operate a camera, that would be great.

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Hi Michael,

If you buy $3,000 worth of equipment and it doesn't work out, you can probably sell it for at least $2,000. :)

Cameras depreciate a bit (in steps when new models come out). Computers depreciate quickly, but are useful for more than just video editing. Lenses and microphones hold their value for years. Buy used and you might even make a profit.

Chris Hurd mentioned framing and composition. For the work you envision, this will be key. It should be balanced and traditional for a western audience. Construction companies aren't generally interested in avant garde. As an example, in western photos, we might make the bottom 3rd ground and the top 2/3rds sky. In Chinese film, it might be 4/5ths ground and 1/5th sky. Mackenzie might have a unique eye that would lead to non-traditional framing. You might encourage him to practice both. Have him film in ways that appeal to him, regardless of how "correct". Identify what is unique and practice it. Also study tradition and practice that to see the difference. He might develop both a unique, artistic look and a traditional look for paid jobs.

After framing and composition, light and exposure are probably next, but first thing's first. Leave camera motion for down the road. It can get expensive. ;)

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Jon

Thank you for the great and very informative post. Much of what you say in regards to Mackenzie is undoubtedly true. It is my hope, that I can teach him correctly and precise enough, and yet there still be room for his own "expression" The hard part of course is that he is very regimented in everything he does. The likely scenario if I can adequately teach him, is that he will be technically proficient in operating a camera, but the expression of which you speak will be lacking.

Again, Thank you for the reply

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Hi Michael

We have spent two years in Canada not working, while our son attended the Arrowsmith School, so you don't have to explain "doing anything" for your kids to me.

+1 Chris Hurd's comment. Framing and composition.

Cheers

Tim

BTW, I really encourage to keep at this or something else for Mackenzie as 24 is far too young to give up on him, as you well know.

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Tim

Thank you for the reply. I suppose in a few posts I may have been a little short with my answers, but my explaining , to some, that I want a life and a career for my son is the best way that I have to describe it. It actually goes very much deeper than that.

I am not familiar with that school, but I will be. I hope your son is doing as well as he can. I know that for Mackenzie besides conquering the behavior issues, the biggest hurdle was getting him to the place where meaningful learning could take place. Once that happened, he made gains by leaps and bounds. My thoughts are with you and your family.

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Noa

Is it permissible, once Mackenzie begins filming things in practice to post some of the footage here , so that my experienced friends here can make suggestions ? If it is permissible, that is great news, I have been wondering how I was going to evaluate not only his results, but also how effective my teaching had been.

If I cannot post his practice footage here to get feedback, is there a place that I could ?

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Steve

Thank you for posting this and the message it contained. I want to thank everyone who have so far weighed in with suggestions, information, and comments. I learn something every day. I have only been here a short time, and I can already tell how special a place this is. Once again, thank all of you very much.

Michael and Mackenzie

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Gary (whom I seldom... actually, never, in my recollection, agree with) is 100% dead-on in this case.

You are getting a lot of good advice from a lot of people. You are asking good questions and getting good answers. Because you haven't done this before (and, if you'll excuse the Donald Rumsfeld-ism, you don't know what you don't know), you are forgetting to ask huge questions, and some (a very few) people (Gary among them) are answering them without you asking them. Forgive him (and me) for being presumptuous.

Gary's advice of buying a <$1k camera and going hog-wild is a great suggestion. I will one-up his advice and tell you to look at the 2010 "best pro-sumer camera" list, all of which will be in the $5k-$10k range, pick the one you like best, and pick it up used off eBay or Craigslist for that same $1k. You will get 5x the camera that you would get brand new, and the depreciation will be practically nil.

Your technical A/V questions are spot on. The elephant in the room is the business of it all. Your thought process of "we'll shoot it and make it great, everybody will buy it" couldn't be more wrong.

You got some great camera and technical advice. Focus on business advice now. Ask questions. Be specific. Lay out your game plan. Tell us where you'll sell, to whom, and pricing. You are assuming a lot of things and your assumptions are way off.

Edit: Please remember... we, the collective DVinfo crowd, want to set you guys up for success. That's why we're grinding you! :-)

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Michael,

You have been candid, honest, and most of all...a class act. Please keep it up. Remember, "how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time".

Steve

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Ofcourse you can post his work here and ask for constructive feedback.

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Michael -
Auto will only get you so far, but most cameras will do "OK" to get you started (aside from 4K shooting, where manual is a must, IMO).

Chris is spot on about framing and composition, which basically means how you get your camera pointed in such a way as to get an "interesting" shot. You can just go around and shoot "stuff" and see how it looks. I've noticed some people have a natural "eye" for it, others, not so much, but with training they can get good results, others, well, their skills must lie elsewhere...

As I mentioned in my earlier post, learn what shutter speed, iris, and gain mean to how your video will look (especially shutter speed with 4K that is typically 30FPS rather than 60). While you can let the camera handle these things, it's better to know how to take control when needed.

White balance should be on that list, along with some study of color correction and various "looks", as those "effects" can be used to enhance the final product. You hopefully will get decent looking "video" results out of most cameras, but to get a professional finished look can be a whole other layer of fine tuning.

Usually it's easy enough to find the "on" button or flip out the LCD, and figure out to hit the "red button", the things above will get you moving in the right direction after that. Keep in mind that editing what he shoots will help him refine his camera skills, and is a good part of what you'll be doing. Not sure if your son is comfortable with computers, but it will help a lot if he is, and he can get into the editing.


We all have to start somewhere, most times with whatever cheap camera we can afford, and work up from there - the skills will translate even if the menus and buttons move (and that's frustrating to us too sometimes!).



As far as monetizing, that's a whole other layer of the onion. You'll find discussions here about various video "jobs", and business models. Especially today, a job or business model that works one day may not work next month, and one that seemed silly last year might be the next big thing with the right twist of technology and social media.

Worst case, it will probably be good for your son to build a set of new skills, even if they don't turn into the big bucks... if he enjoys it, it will be something he will always have with him for his personal enjoyment - the memories of you working together, as the commercial goes, are "priceless". As I mentioned before, don't push it too hard, let it come to him naturally, burnout is always a risk even with something that can be as much fun as creating something "cool"...

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Actually no, they are not. I greatly appreciate that you have chosen to hold this conversation on DVi.

I did not mean to sound curt with my short reply of just "framing and composition." My point I guess is that it all starts from there, and I had no time then (nor now it seems) to go into a treatise on the subject. But that is indeed where you begin. Put the camcorder in Auto mode and concentrate first and foremost on framing and composition. Eventually you can graduate to gradually taking manual control of the camera settings, but save that until after the basics of framing and composition have been learned through doing. Hope this helps!

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Michael, one thing you haven't mentioned... Is MacKenzie a visual learner or an aural learner?

It will make a difference in how you try to teach MacKenzie the things he needs to learn.

Another teaching tool are podcasts. There are hundreds if not thousands of podcasts on every subject related to audio/video pre/post production and everything in between.

Everyone from manufacturers to professionals, and amateurs to semi-professionals has produced an audio or video podcast on any topic you are interested in.

There are also free university courses available through iTunes U. These courses include syllabi and reference materials. Some even include material in pdf format.

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Mike,

Thank you for the reply, and the comments, suggestions, and advice it contained.

What I will say for the business is that I have a target audience , I will have multiple ways of reaching that target audience, and pricing will be in the competitive range of what other vendors are charging for their offerings. The wild card as I have said repeatedly is whether Mackenzie will be able to do this. If he can, we will be good to go. If he can not, then nothing else matters.
I have identified a target audience, I have ways to reach them, I have a pricing structure, with Mackenzie doing his part, I will have a product to deliver to that audience, in your opinion, just what more do I need.

Contrary to what some may think, I do not have a "secret" model. The place where I work has a target audience, it has a product, it has a pricing structure, it has ways of reaching it's target audience.

Thanks,

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Steve,

Thank you for the kind remarks. I would express the same sentiments toward all my new found friends here.


Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Noa

Thank you for the reply. That is a relief, and I certainly will .



Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Dave

Thank you for the reply and all the information it contained. Thanks to you, Chris and others, I can now begin to organize and fill in my lesson plan(s).

Mackenzie loves working on the computer. I think I will try with editing what he shoots for practice, it just might be another reinforcer, and as you say, a learning tool as well.

On your last point, I will do the best that I can. The key is to never make it aversive, which means as much as possible make it fun, with plenty of breaks. I am pretty sure I will be buying an external monitor, as I think it will greatly enhance things, and most importantly make it "easier" for Mackenzie.

Once again, thank you very much.


Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Chris

Thank you for the reply. I will most certainly follow this advice. As short as it has so far been, I have greatly enjoyed my time here, and the new friends I have found. We are just at the beginning of the beginning of this journey, and if you will have us, we will take you every step of the way

As I said in my opening post, besides what I am doing for Mackenzie, I hope this process, can in some way, be useful to others with challenges, to serve as an example, an inspiration, a guide, whatever they need it to be.

Thank you again !

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Ed

Thanks again for the reply ! Mackenzie is a very strong visual learner.

You have supplied me with some great information, and I greatly appreciate it ! I have encountered some of what you have said here, but just had not internalized how large a volume of material there was.

Thank you again.

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

There are filmmakers on the Autism spectrum.

https://www.autismspeaks.org/blog/20...over-filmmaker

Autism Doesn't Hold Back Filmmaker

The Red Carpet: Documentary about an autistic filmmaker - Wrong Planet

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Model Trucks.....As soon as you get a camera get some large large toy trucks for training purposes. You can train with them right in your home and Mackenzie will be learning while being engaged with his favorite and target subject. Get some that move. He can learn angles while they are still. Moving subjects present a whole new dimension in shooting video. A rolling toy will be great training. Don't assume it will be easy, its not, but you will be able to control that and introduce the motion slowly to keep it fun for him.

Kind Regards,

Steve

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Regarding moving objects, there are generally two approaches: 1) lock down the camera so that the moving object comes into/out of/traverses the space, or 2) track the object.

The challenge with the locked down approach is that one needs to envision where the object will move and frame the shot with that in mind. The challenge with a tracking shot is that it takes good equipment and physical skill. If you will do tracking shots, it's really critical to get a good tripod. The Sachtler Ace and Vinten Blue are good choices. They might seem terribly high priced for three sticks and a head, but if you do your research, you'll find that they are entry level for professional work. (That said, there may be some cheaper tripods out there that happen to be solid with smooth movement. But don't be surprised when the $300 tripod with great reviews delivers shaky shots.) In general, the tighter the shot, the more critical the tripod. If you are a good distance from a construction site and are zooming into a single vehicle, don't be surprised if you need to spend more on the tripod than the camera.

Regarding Stephen's suggestion of model trucks, note that the camera will need macro capabilities if the models are especially small. You might be better off with Tonka than Matchbox. :)

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Brian

Thank you for the reply. That is some really great information. Nice to see what is possible.

Thanks,

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Steve

What a great reply ! In a million years, I would not have thought of that.

Thank you very much !

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Jon

Thank you for this informative post. I was going to get around to eventually asking about tripods, which is something I most assuredly need help from those that already use them.

You and Steve are thinking outside the box. Mackenzie has a few radio controlled cars that I could use, a couple are fairly large.

Thank you again !

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Jon,

"Think Tonka, not Matchbox" YES, I was thinking in terms of Tonka size but had forgotten about them. What a flood of memories!!! Do they still make them, I wonder? At one time I must have owned the entire fleet. I dug many a hole in my backyard larger than my father was pleased with. Especially because I used the dump trucks to haul off the dirt so they could not be back filled!

I was the king of Matchbox and Hot Wheels. Gravity racing sport at its finest. And then high tech came around with Sizzlers, the motorized Hot Wheels. My kids don't believe it but there was life and joy for some of us kids that grew up before the internet, video games, and cell phones.

Michael, think Tonka sized toys. That is what I had in mind but Jon nailed it!

Steve

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Editing is also a key aspect of film making, so a newcomer has to learn the concepts and grammar used in making films. No shot stands alone in a film (even in a single shot film, which usually consists of what amounts to shots connected together as one shot) .

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Be sure to read Chris Soucy's three tripod reviews. They will provide you with the knowledge of what features and design criteria to look at and compare.

Review: Vinten Vision Blue

Review: Manfrotto 504HD/ 546GBK Video Support System

Review: Libec RS 250M Video Support System

More informaton...

Camera Support

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Steve

Thanks ! Tonka, do they still make them? I know when I was young, they had all kinds of neat metal trucks and things. I used to use mine to excavate large portions of my yard, which of course made my parents very happy. They did not use time out in those days for correction.

Yes, it is a different world. In my youth, during the summer, my friends and I were outside all day from after breakfast until dark and sometimes after, only taking a short break to wolf down lunch and get a drink of something( typically kool-aid) every now and then.

Thanks.

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Brian

Thanks for the reply. Editing is an important objective for us. Mackenzie is well suited to spending a long time on the computer, it is just a matter of internalizing the technical skill of editing.

One thing I am anticipating, is that through his editing, I may get somewhat of an insight into how he perceives his world. I know it is not the same as all of us do. Might make for some interesting scenes.

Thank you

Michael

Re: New and need help for son with Autism
 

Ed

Thank you very much for this post and the information. It does raise a couple of questions. We will be outdoors, sometimes possibly not in a level spot, should a tripod in that situation use spreaders ? What are the advantages of using spreaders as opposed to using a tripod without in an outdoor setting ?

Mackenzie is over 6'2", nearly 6'3", what would be an appropriate height for a tripod ? It is almost a certainty that I will be attaching a monitor/recorder to the camera, and he will do better if he does not have to bend over very much.

Ed, I want to thank you and everyone else who have been so very helpful here in the early stages of our quest.

Michael