Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

I have a project I want to do where some portions of the story are told through news footage. It's fiction, but it's told in a news footage style. One thing I notice about the news is that it has weird transitions as it goes from scene to scene sometimes.
Here are two transitions in this news clip at 0:29. and 0:54 into the clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LKm76D-Rf0*

And here is another transition at 3:11 into this clip:


I am wondering, do you think I should use the same types of transitions you see in those examples, or should I make up my own, if they just look better? Or should I go with those examples, because those kinds are more realistic to modern news? What do you think, out of curiosity?

Thanks for any input! I really appreciate it.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

You don't need to use Fox News transitions.

UK news programs just use straight cuts on their news and it's a lot less distracting. I don't recall seeing them on other news channels from around the world.

II would check out how other North American news outlets like CNN and CBS handle the same thing.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Bored editor - transition box full of stuff - pick a few.

How on earth did you even focus in on these? It's news. They use transitions - so slides, blurs, pattern wipes are all perzazz to spice up boring material and make it look snazzy, modern and exciting. Usually fails IMHO.

Before you start a thirty page topic. Consider the question? It really does not require our input at all Ryan. If you want to create news footage, there's some much, you just pick your own. Try imagining getting a job as editor. You have three minutes to edit it and stick it on the server for playout. Do have time to think about these things - you just grab one and use it - then move on. It's unworthy of considered thought and discussion. It's the kind of thing you do and immediately decide yes, it works, no it doesn't. You don't prevaricate and you don't even really evaluate it. You might6 not even make a note of the actual effect name. It's a non-event.

Move on.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Oh okay, well I was just thinking of how to cut bridge the scenes, together thinking if I used transitions, it would look more like American news, but at the same time, I don't want to make them look over-stylized either.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

I would dump that example, it's distracting.

If you want to simulate American News, look at a number of different channels. However, bear in mind nothing dates faster than the transitions used.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Oh okay, well I can do cuts instead it's just what if I want to jump ahead, but not have their be a continuity error? Like the news, I want to make the events are shot with just one camera, but if I want to cut ahead with avoiding jump cutting, I thought that using those news-ish transitions would help that. Or I could just jump cut, but you never see jump cuts on the news though.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Believe it or not, news video editors use cut aways to make time jumps. It all good practice by the camera people to shoot these, who may also be editing their news pieces, although that depends on the nature and size of the news organisation.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Oh okay thanks, I don't recall seeing jump cuts on the news. Well I can use just cutting if that's better, as long as it still feels like American news.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

It's the onscreen graphics and the reporter's voice that makes it look like American news.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

It’s funny I was wondering last night what happened to Ryan, we haven’t heard from him in a while. I was hoping he finally decided to stop trying to micro plan his movie and started making it. Oh well looks like he’s off on another tangent but it’s sounds more achievable than the other project (unless this is simply another part of that same movie he is always talking about).

24hr News channels (Fox/CNN/MSNBC) have big budgets and large departments dedicated to creating these slick looks. For a $50-200 you can buy graphics plugin packages for your editing software to approximate this corporate news look. This seems like another exasperating effort to emulate big budget productions with no budget.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Oh I was busy with other projects. I could buy the product, but I thought I would just create the graphics myself in the software I have though, unless there is an advantage to that package?

Another thing I could do in some parts of the editing is insert a still photo and then pan and scan within the photo for reveals. The only thing is, you don't see this on the news, so would that TOO different?

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

There's no reason why you wouldn't see a still photograph in a news programme if it's the only visual that's available. It won't be something that they'd shoot themselves, since they shoot video. but a still could be provided by a member of the public or from a newspaper photographer.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Yep true. I could use still photos in some parts, but I wonder if that looks like it's considered cheating since it's a movie, and are movies expected to have videos tell their stories as oppose to a still once in a while?

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

People won't think anything if it looks like news. You are over thinking again. Movies use whatever is appropriate, so look at the movies about news if you have to, and you'll find they over exaggerate the key features, not recreate reality. Don't get into your rules thing again.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

No such thing as cheating in a movie, the whole thing is a cheat, a slight of hand.

"La Jetee" is made using stills, so no rules regarding that.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Oh okay thanks. What about skipping ahead in someone's speech? I've noticed they used flashes of white to do that. I can just cut ahead, but then that's jump cutting, but maybe jump cutting on the news is okay, even though you never see it?

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

News edits frequently just stuff together clips edited for the audio, and sometimes they'll slap all kinds of transitions on them, often with a whoosh or other SFX. If you watch just one or two hours of a con sinuous news channel, you'll see edits done for speed, and if the cut jolts too much, they simply soften it with something suitable.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Oh okay thanks.

I also noticed this type of transition at 0:49 into the clip:


The do a fade to white and back to avoid jump cutting. I could do that or just have jump cuts intentionally for style.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

There are no rules, it really depends on what you're doing and on each news station's requirements. Some insist that you show that speeches have been edited,, others allow cutaways in order to avoid jump cuts.

I'm not sure why you're asking these things. Your editor will be the person creating these news bulletins (even though it's you) and the style may have changed in the meantime. They' used to cut to black, so these the things go in and out of fashion. This one simulates a flash frame, which what happens on film cameras when they're stopped filming and a couple of frames get over exposed before the reflex mirror on the shutter is lined up.

Use the transition effect that best suits your story and the action, you don't need to set it in stone for the moment. .

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Oh okay thanks. It's just that I was planning the shoot with the edit in mind, because I thought that would be better, rather than not shooting for the edit.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

It doesn't make any difference during the shoot if you plan to use a jump cut, a flash frame, a cut to black or everything spins like one of those old newspaper effects.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

The only thing you need to make sure when you film is that you leave few extra seconds at the start and end for the transitions. The Weinstein clip has bunch of common transitions mainly fade to color either white or black. This is really basic stuff.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Yes, remember your overlaps.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Ryan has been missing for a while and this news jump cut topic has appeared on the DVX forum, posted by JimS2 - who oddly, starts every post with "Oh, OK, Thanks......" I'd bet Ryans' started anew over there.

Zooming vs. speedramping, which looks better? - Page 3

is a typical Ryan topic. Things might be quieter here if he's jumped ship.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

I kinda miss him but maybe if JimS2 spends most of his time on dvx forum might not be such a bad thing. Ryan errr I mean Jim could use a fresh start

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

It would seem that he's getting the same range of answers to the same range of questions.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Trouble is, he's not moved forward - he's doing the cheap lens crash zoom thing again, the topic about his script and the policeman and the current news cuts.

I did kind of think we'd been helping and guiding him OK, clearly he still hasn't got the answers he wants.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

What you want and what you can get can be entirely different things, especially if you don't have or are unwilling to spend the money required. Paraphrasing John Boorman's book title, it's about turning money into light.

Unfortunately, he keeps on painting himself into a corner without noticing the ground floor window beside him.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

DVXuser.com -- The online community for filmmaking

They spotted that Ryan was previously Ironpony, and they mentioned he'd posted the same things before.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

I had a quick search and Ironpony seems to have the same issues that Ryan has in hearing things and (apparently) not really understanding. Plus the suggestion (in 2013) that he has done this on a number of other forum boards.

There's a definite pattern that been going on for years and this film (seemingly) hasn't yet gotten to a festival.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Because of his limitation I can't see him having success in filmakng or to following anybody’s advice. Maybe it's enough that he has something that occupies his time that he enjoys doing... I'll just have limit my responses to encouragement and leave it at that. Knowing what I know now I feel like I've wasted a lot of time

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Sad but probably true. He wasnt bad as an actor from the pig sitcom. Maybe potential there...work on movies AND be told exactly what to do and how to do it.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Well I think now that covid is starting to die down, I will try another shot at making a feature film maybe. I mean I was told before that I need better actors and a better DP and crew to pull off a much better product, so I will use my money and get those things, and hope it pays off and that the next product is much better as a result.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make anyone feel that the advice was a waste at all! I have received plenty of great advice on here, and I really appreciate it! Thank you everyone, for all the great advice. I am going to take the advice on here, and try to apply it the next project, and hope it turns out well.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Covid starting to die down you say? We're just gettin into our groove in Texas. Make room, Ryan. Daddy's movin' in.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

When you say make room, what do you mean by that?

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Sorry friend. It was a dumb joke. I was saying that since you're saying Canada's about to be Covid-free and here in Texas we're just ramping up (AGAIN), I was going to move in with you.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Oh, sorry for not understanding. Yeah it's too bad how covid has not calmed down as much in other places, for sure.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

The film and TV industries are slowly beginning to start moving again, however, there are about 50 pages of guidelines for doing so. Just because Covid-19 has quietened down, doesn't mean that it has gone and there's a real risk of the so called 2nd wave come the flu season.

I don't know about your state, but British Columbia has published guidelines; https://deadline.com/2020/06/the-fla...ne-1202969995/

If you're going to make a film, go and do.it at an appropriate time. However, if you haven't found out how by this stage, with the endless threads running over at least 7 years on forums, the odds aren't that good.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Yeah I will have to wait for some more things in the pandemic to be lifted, I am just saying I am going to go for it. Or maybe if it keeps up I will have to attempt to do it somewhere else...

I mean I could try to cheat and just have a couple of actors to shoot half of a scene, then bring in another few to shoot the other half, but I really prefer to have my master shots, where everyone is playing off each other in the scene, for safety.

Re: Question about shooting news documentary style in this case.
 

Please download a set of guidelines and make your plans from there.

Personal preferences may not work out in the current situation, plus the shooting schedule is likely to be longer.