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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
You personally have to put the time in. You need to use you imagination and personal skills in finding them, You could advertise, it's something that can take time, you have to be proactive and focused..
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Oh okay, sure. I have put out casting calls the past two years, but feel that not enough were showing up in order to choose from to cast a project effectively. I can keep trying and looking around. But I feel that has been the biggest reason why I haven't made shorts much is because of looking for more actors and a more DPs to choose from.
It's not that I don't want to, I just feel I need more help to pull it off. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
So, why do you think a feature film is going to be easier?
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
I wonder if one problem that Ryan has never considered is who his audience is? He is making his movies for himself. His own likes and dislikes, and perhaps even style, completely overpower the needs of the audience. In the other topic, he warns us of the content before we have seen it. This is a problem because it is a HUGE reduction in potential viewing figures. If you work on the premise that genre may be the biggest operator in the filters, it's a cut of a cut of a cut, and then with the sexual content, we go above the 18 limit that nowadays is pointless in itself. So you have an adult product, with graphic scenes of blood and murder, plus sexual content - so who is left watching it? Certainly not people who know good movies it could be argued? Nobody criticises production techniques in porn, few music fans look at the continuity and framing in a Queen biopic, so fans opinions are based on a very narrow spectrum of people. Go the other way, to Disney and because the audience is huge and diverse, every element has to be perfect.
I rather liked the pyscho shower scene, brought up recently - the level of actual visual violence is amazingly low - my memory remembers very different things. Did I imagine what my memory remembers? I suspect that it's the Hitchcock way of doing things - to make you think you saw what you didn't. Maybe your style and content prevents people wanting to be involved? If you made something in a different genre, maybe your casting would be easier and you'd not have to say yes to weak people simply because you are casting by quantity not quality. Ask yourself how many people auditioned for the parts who you turned down. One thing I have realised. The fella who did your talking head in the battle damaged souls thing - I had assumed he was a veteran, and it was a documentary. I did not realise he was an actor. I thought that short was that guess own idea which you shot, not that it was a movie with script and actors. I'm not sure if that's an indication of success or failure? Success really I think as you fooled me. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
There are a number of extremely good films that have an 18 certificate, however, the audience does become smaller. How it affects the sales and distribution will depend on the genre, for example it's unlikely to have much impact on a horror film.
You can get away with a fair amount of sex and violence with a 15 cert. I'm not sure what certificate "Naked Attraction" on the UK Channel 4 would get, but it does have close shots of male and female genitals. BTW It's a dating show for those who don't know it.. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Ryan, I would be astounded if I hadn't read so many of your threads. You're complaining that you can't find enough actors to make a simple limited short. How are you going to find enough actors to make your huge masterpiece?
This is why people go to school. There is a pool of actors in the theatre department. There is a pool of musicians in the music department. There is a pool of crew in the technical theatre department. You meet smart, enthusiastic people and network with them, teams form, things get done. Meanwhile, in structured classes, you learn things from the ground up, in logical order, rather than trying to learn them at random by asking questions here. Make a short PSA about the local SPCA. It can be serious, or maybe you can find some humorous point to it. Interview one person, who is on the staff there, and you won't need a casting call. The rest of your shots are animals, buildings, backgrounds. Meanwhile you will learn about camera angles, composition, lighting, sound, and editing. Stop dealing with all these "disturbed mind" themes, crime, injuries, etc., which require good acting along with difficult and/or expensive effects. Make something short and positive. You will gain experience in the necessary skills, gain confidence, and build up a filmography, all at the same time. If you have a list of good films to your credit, people will be more inclined to work with you, even if it's for free. By the way, what's the most important thing you learned from Jay Rose? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
I have the distinct impression Ryan only wants to do what he wants. Someone said that they think that our criticism and advice has confused and made him unsure of his decisions. I don't think that's the case, in fact I think he ignores most everything we say and it has little to no impact on him. When he says "I've been told" it never refers to what we have told him, rather it's the group of people he collaborates with.
Case in point years ago people on a writing forum him told him he would have difficulty finding actors who would want to be involved in such content and audience who want to watch it. So he knows why he can't find actors and yet he brings it up on this forum like he has no idea what the trouble is. His problems are due to his decisions and choices which he has no desire to change. He only wants the results to change. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Someone defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. Ryan's never going to change and take our advice. Of course we keep responding to Ryan's posts, so maybe we're insane, too.
I honestly think Ryan's answer to my earlier question is "C." What he most wants to do is to talk about filmmaking. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Oh okay, I just gave the warning because I posted the short film on another side, and the other side said I should have given a warning so I thought I would do that here, if that was what I should do.
Ask for wanting to do the same things over again though, one of the things that was different is that I want to pay people cuz I thought I would get more actors and a more DPs to choose from. But other say I should still make zero budget shorts which haven't gotten me a lot of choices of people. So isn't that doing the same thing over again?. If I'm doing too much of the same thing over again then I can try different things for casting, I'm just not sure what to do right now because of covid. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
The pattern is for talking on forums, with the occasional film along the way.
Ryan is probably in the wrong location for casting and making a film as described. If you can't get the cast a film is dead in the water. The Coen brothers have had a number of films located in regions similar to where he lives. Some of them are pretty dark in places, but they don't have huge casts and many don't have big crashes. However, they are quirky and different, which is what you want for the festival circuit. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
I can try to be more flexible on how I make the movie and not make it just how I want. It's just if I do that I fear I will make the same mistakes and it will just be a very flatly shot flatly acted movie. That was my fear of not having a lot of actors to choose from for example, if that's what you mean by being too unflexible.
well there is one script I wanted to do before a couple of years ago but I couldn't get enough actors to audition for it. I can try again.. But how can I attract more people without spending much money though since you said I should do zero budget scripts? I just feel it will turn out to be bad again because I'm not hiring people and just going with whoever shows up because it's zero budget. so want to be making the same mistakes again if I do that? Also, what do you think of the other short film I posted since I was told to post more shorts? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Since getting enough actors is an issue where you live, it's pointless writing scripts that require a large cast. It's possible to have a feature film with a small cast.
https://moviebabble.com/2019/09/03/t...h-small-casts/ |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Oh okay, it's just that it is difficult to write a feature length plot with only a few characters, because I keep needing to come up with new characters to bridge plot points. But I can try. In the past, it was more difficult to get actors to commit to larger parts, so I thought that if I wrote a script with more actors, then the parts will not be so large, and avaibility would be more flexible. For example, actors 1 and 2 are not available these days, but actors 3 and 4 are so we can do those scenes, in the mean time... If that makes sense?
I was just going by past experience, and having different actors means you can get some on certain days, while waiting for others. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
With a feature film shooting like that with other actors probably won't work, unless you've got one location, so that something is fixed. Even so you still need them to commit, either for one week blocks, or at least one day every weekend.
You can be very flexible if you're only got one actor and locations that you can access at anytime, However, once you get more complex you can't have people dropping out at short notice. I worked on a very low budget feature which had professional actors with a lot of downtime on a feature film, so it was shot back to back, with scenes being shot as the actors become available. Iy was difficult to keep track of everything as two actors would go off, while another one arrived, possibly to do a different scene. However, it was all one block. I worked on it because I knew the guys making it and it sort of sounded fun. There wasn't endless planning, an old script was adapted and the whole thing was got up and going in less than two weeks. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Oh okay, I see, what do you mean exactly by block in this context?
Also, as far as using one location goes, I have had bad experience with this in the past, because a lot of location owners will not let me use an entire location for a whole shoot. There is a script I tried doing two years ago, where it was all set in one location but I couldn't find a location owner who could say yes to that long amount of time. So based on past experiences, I thought a script with a few locations is better because a location owner is more likely to say yes to their location being used for 8 hours for example, compared to 8 days. But are my experiences unusual that a location owner will say yes more likely, if the shoots are kept shorter? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
I can't fathom why you want to make these indie films. They're expensive, complicated, with little chance of success. All we hear from you how you are mired in intractable problems with no resolution. You can't find a proper cast, crew or raise the needed money... Either you are resourceful and come up with creative solutions or you just don't make independent movies by yourself because you don't have what it takes.
A colleague recently told me of an indie movie success story of a Scandinavian guy. He started filming horror shorts gained notoriety on the internet and eventually caught the attention of Hollywood producers, they flew him to the states and now he makes feature films. He filmed shorts, no dialog, in his house, of his gf/wife. His shorts basically demonstrated his skill as a film maker with little to no money to have a unique vision and to execute it to achieve professional results. It is simple, focused and to the point. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Oh okay. Well I could attempt to just make it then and hope for the best, perhaps being okay, with not everything being planned in advanced, and just hope it turns out, even though not everything is planned if that's best. Should I stop trying to plan so much and try a more fly by the seat of my pants approach, hoping that it doesn't go wrong as a result of not planning more?
But I was wondering, it was said on here before, to post more shorts. I posted another one, but there haven't been much comments on it, unless maybe I shouldn't focus on that? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Yeah, you guys should take a look at that.
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Link, please?
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
He must have taken it down. I'm glad because poorly acted and filmed disturbing content isn't my cup of tea. Some things can't be unseen.
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
No I didn't take it down.
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Still there. Post #116 in this thread.
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
I guess I should have posted it in another thread if that's better.
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
I think we probably were very unsure how to comment on it.
Did you really think putting a colour grading credit on this was appropriate, when it was so inconsistent between shots? You seemed to have differences in overall brightness between shots wight from the start - that corridors shot looks like something from a home movie 30 yrs ago. The intro where the cameras lurches left then lurches up = how weird. As usual, the acting was very variable. The fella you picked to be the lead acted like he was a secret psychopath kind of those facial expressions are usually found on people quite ill. Was the music really appropriate? I didn't find it fitted very well. You also lost it on some very basic features - captions for one. It's normal for multi-line captions to be centred so the middle of one line is below or above the middle of the others - it got overlooked. Seriously though, it did look like something shot in the 80s. The image quality, the sets, and the audio. Was that intentional? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Okay thanks. I tried the camera movement as best I could. As for the look of it, I tried to match the color correction as best I could but just need to get better at it.
I didn't mean for it to come off as '80s, what exactly was '80s about it more specifically if you can tell me? As for the music some of it I like but some of it I didn't. I showed the composer examples of the kind of music I wanted but the music just didn't come out sounding the way I wanted it to in the end, like the examples I gave him, which were different. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
I was using a new pan and tilt tripod, but I find myself having difficulty panning and tilting, at the same time, and just need to get use to how it moves more.
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Im pretty sure the lead IS Ryan. Mask aside he looks like the guy from the youtube pig sitcom, and is credited at the end of the cast credits.
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
This is exactly why I suggest you shoot some very short films, but get them technically perfect. You could spend a few hours just practicing tripod moves, until you can do that perfectly. It could be a silent film about bicycle riders ... go downtown and shoot everyone who goes past on a bike. Practice following the bike smoothly. Then zoom in a bit and practice following the riders' heads smoothly. Then practice zooming at the same time as the pan and tilt. You could spend a day practicing that until you are really good at it.
That's nothing that we can teach you by discussion on a forum. You need to actually practice, and develop a skill. If you don't possess these skills, then you're not qualified to be doing that job in the finished film. (BTW, on my laptop screen, in a lighted room, it was a real strain to see what was going on in those dark scenes. Maybe the detail is actually in the file (I didn't re-watch it with the room darkened) but in my viewing situation that was the result.) Why do you want to make a film? Do you want to convey some message to the audience, by telling a story? If so, you need to be a good storyteller. So you need to master all the skills and arts that you are going to use. Otherwise the audience will be distracted by the mediocre technique, and won't focus on the story. Do you understand the importance of this? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
I want to tell good stories, and understand the importance of it.
However, as far as camera movement goes, I only did the opening shot which I ended up getting later on after, and the DP was not available then. Everything else was shot by the DP. Did the DP do a better job than me when it comes to the rest of the camera movement throughout? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Aren't you asking us to critique your films? That tripod move (and the non-centered titles, and various details in between) are not what I'd consider adequate quality for a finished film. If that's OK with you, and you're proud to put your name on a film like that, then great. Otherwise, if you acknowledge that you're not capable of running the camera, then do not run the camera. Making excuses after the fact does not improve the quality of the film.
Besides, if you bought a tripod, and (I assume) it's your camera, don't you want to be able to use them well? If the PD is *not* available, and you are forced to step in, don't you want the shots to look professional? I thought you wanted to make a *great* film, not a mediocre one. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Yeah I wanted to make a great film of course, it just didn't end up turning out that way. Aside from the opening shot I did, and as far as camera movement goes, the DP did the rest of the camera movement. Is the camera movement better for the rest of it? And I rented the tripod just before shooting. I did some practice runs, but I should have done more. The tripod I know own, since the store owner sold me to because she was getting rid of it. But next time I will be sure to practice more if I have to step in, or just get a DP who hast the equipment than can do it too hopefully.
But what about the camera movement for the rest of it, since the only movement that was commented on, was the opening shot? As for the moving being too dark, I feel that the movie is darker on youtube compared to on my original file, but can youtube darken a movie, once it's been uploaded? Also, I know I've been told to make zero budget ones with whoever I can find, but I thought that if I get better actors and a better DP, that would make a difference, so isn't it even worth trying? Why is trying something new, so bad? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
My point is that you should go out and start practicing tomorrow! If you don't, and you don't develop that skill, then if the DP suddenly calls in sick, you won't have the necessary skill to run the camera.
Do you have something to do tomorrow that's more important than developing a skill related to film making? Is it impossible for you to squeeze in one hour of practicing pan/tilt moves? What about the difference in exposure between the "home" scenes and the office scene? Was the original footage that badly exposed? Or was that a color grading error? C'mon Ryan, instead of making excuses, why not make an effort????? What's the most important thing you learned from Jay Rose? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Tomorrow I am editing another project I am working on for someone. I will have more time once that is finished.
Well usually when I make my own, I am recording sound and booming as well. So I have to do that job as well. So I can't be the DP if it's a scene that involves recording dialogue though, but I can when it comes to shots without recording sound during. However, I don't have all the equipment to be camera operator. For example when it comes to the gimbal shots, I have leave that up to someone who has a gimbal. Unless I should by my own gimbal and practice with that too, as well as record the sound? How much should I buy and own, as oppose to hiring others who are experts with it? When you say the difference between the original footage and the office scene, dealing with exposure, this is why I want to hire a better DP, and use actual money to bring a better one in. Is that really so bad to do that? Other directors and producers spend money on proper ones, to get good cinematography, so why can't I? Why do I have to either be my own DP, or settle for someone willing to work for free, when I spend money on a better product. Is that so wrong? I could learn cinematography to develop my skill but other directors leave it up to other DPs, so how do they do it? Who is Jay Rose? I googled the name, but do not know who that is. But are you also suggesting that I should be my own DP on a regular basis and not use anyone else? Because a part of me was considering getting a gimbal since I find myself wanting one from time to time for certain shots. Or is a gimbal not worth buying, and I should just hire a gimbal operator? When you say was the original footage was that badly exposed, or was it a color grading error, what is the error exactly? Is it too dark you are saying? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
After thinking about it, you are right, and I should practice the camera movement more on my own. However, I don't have a gimbal to practice the gimbal moves, or a dolly to practice the dolly moves. Should I buy them, or should I just rent or hire someone who has them? Or is it important to buy them and have them ready to go whenever?
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Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Point out a few things that haven't been mentioned:
1. Many of the shots are out of focus. In fact I can clearly see your dlsr is set to auto focus when it should be set to manual. The scene at her home the camera is hunting between her and the background. 2. I can also spot that you must of done a green screen re shoot of the man at the desk. During the reverse angle he has been poorly keyed. I'm not discouraging you from trying, but you have plenty to work on. If I were you I wouldn't be as self satisfied as you seem. You have yet to show us anything that would warrant you doing a feature film let alone anything with a substantial budget. The only benefit of this piece is you got practice and could use it to learn what to improve on. Otherwise it demonstrates that you are below average of all aspects of film making. There is nothing special that I can see in particular when it comes to directing. I could over look all the technical flaws if there was something else to see. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Ryan, you are trying to put words in my mouth (or ideas in my head). I didn't say anything about a gimbal or dolly. But if you have a tripod (hopefully with some sort of fluid head) and a camera, at least be able to use those adequately.
Also I never suggested that you be DP on all your projects. I said in case the DP calls in sick or there's an emergency, then you'd be better prepared to take over. THIS is a good example of overthinking. I meant what I said. I did not mean what I didn't say. Why do you want to over-complicate things? Look at the exposure yourself. Don't you think the "house" shots are darker than the office shots? Is the house supposed to be dark? Are you trying to convey a mood? Or is that just bad exposure? You ask about hiring a DP. The point is that you did NOT hire a DP, so this film ended up with visual problems. Hell, if you really have any money (which I doubt, since you didn't even buy $10 handcuffs for the other project) hire a DP, hire a sound man so you don't have to do that, hire a good colorist, hire some better actors, and get a composer more to your liking. MEANWHILE we are talking about the film that you posted. You did NOT hire anyone, the results suffer, you asked for a critique, you are getting one Stop making excuses. When you googled Jay Rose, didn't you find any results that look even slightly relevant to what you're doing? I wonder whether you even bothered to use Google and look at the results. |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Ryan!
"In the Mood for Wrath" has ... wait for it ... HANDCUFFS that show up in the home invasion scene toward the end. So you DO know where to find them! |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
Yes I ended up reshooting that shot once I got some handcuffs.
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You're right sorry for putting words in your mouth. I just wasn't sure what to expect if I am to learn the camera movement as well. But yes, I can learn the tripod and have practiced more with it since I got it. And yes I did get a DP for this short is what I meant. The DP shot everything else besides the opening shot I did. As for why the office scene looks too different from the home scene, it was the DP that made that decision, but I am guessing it has to with that the lights in the home were suppose to be coming from lamp motivated sources, where as the office lights were ceiling flourescent sources. That is just my guess, but the DP decided that. Should I not have left that decision up to the DP? For the house I was trying to convey a dark mood though, since the guy is suppose to be drugged and what follows after that. But did we go too dark with the lighting? |
Re: Do I tend to overthink things in filmmaking?
When I said "hire a DP" I meant in the future, because you were asking whether you should hire one or be DP yourself.
As far as exposure differences, I think that somewhat depends on where you expect this to be watched. In a dark theatre, with recommended SMPTE screen brightness, it would probably be fine as it is. But as I said, in a well lighted room, on my laptop, it's hard for me to see what's happening in some of the darker areas. Other people might have a different opinion. I was just commenting on my own viewing experience. And if that's your intention, then so be it. Watching the film, with the intention of giving a critique, I certainly was aware of the difference. And no, not Jay Rose the hockey player. Really, did you google it? Actually on Google? And you didn't find anything relevant to film, video, etc.? |
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