HDV color depth? at DVinfo.net

Luke Springer · May 22nd, 2007, 11:50 PM

Hello,
Does HDV have more color depth than SD making it slightly more "filmic"? I was just reading about sky replacement to create more depth, and it got me thinking (I'm still deciding on a camera, and whether or not to go HD).

Thanks,
Luke

Glenn Chan · May 23rd, 2007, 09:28 PM

By color depth I am guessing you mean chroma resolution (more or less color resolution).

In my opinion, color resolution does not contribute much to make things look filmic.

2- If you're looking at doing sky replacements, a camera with low noise and high chroma resolution will likely be good (this is the case with keying, so I assume that sky replacement is similar). Low noise is important.

Also important is how much resolution the camera's sensor(s) are capable of... you have to look at the whole system. The JVC 720p cameras key just as well as some 1080 cameras.

3-

1080 HDV is:
1440x1080 luma
720x540 chroma
If the footage is interlaced, chroma performance is effectively around 720x270.

NTSC DV is:
720x480 luma
180x480 chroma

PAL DVCPRO:
720x576 luma
180x576 chroma

PAL DV + DVCAM:
720x576 luma
360x288 chroma
If the footage is interlaced, chroma performance is effectively around 360x144.

They all generally look good. Extremely saturated colors will stress the color subsampling though... the worst probably being green text on a magenta background (blue/yellow and red/cyan look bad too). But it's unlikely that you'd run into that situation.

Luke Springer · May 24th, 2007, 09:53 PM

Thanks for the reply... I am trying to decide between a Canon XL2, Sony V1U, or maybe a JVC HD100...it sounds like an HD camera would be best for keying (you're right, sky replacement is the same as keying)

Thanks,
Luke

David W. Jones · May 25th, 2007, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Springer

(I'm still deciding on a camera, and whether or not to go HD).

Thanks,
Luke

Let me help with that question...

Are your clients asking for HD in their projects?

Do you have the budget to purchase everything you will need for an HD workflow?

Matt Davis · May 25th, 2007, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David W. Jones

Let me help with that question...

And please excuse me whilst I fog up the question with a different angle about HD (or more specifically, HDV).

I've got an HDV camera (a Z1) which helps me do Standard Def work better. I shoot HDV, edit HDV/AIC, export to SD in a 4:2:2 codec.

It means I can do good chromakey with a Prosumer camcorder. I can work with 16:9 camera originals and get 4:3 and 16:9 DV from them if I need to.

My clients are not requesting HD, but they are booking me and my Z1 and have noticed the quality I get from it without knowing that I shood HDV and deliver SD (that's SD, *not* DV)

HDV shoots 4:2:0, but in basically halving the resolution to fit into SD's luminance rez, the chroma ends up at almost 4:2:2 rez, which is useful when it's intercut with 4:4:4 animation codec Motion Graphics or (more common in my line of work) PNGs from PowerPoint slides.

Luke Springer · May 25th, 2007, 04:47 PM

Thank you,

Unfortunately, I don't have clients (yet). I am going to produce my own short films, and documentaries. I think I could probably work with HD fairly smoothly, so workflow is probably not an issue now.

--Luke

May 22nd, 2007, 11:50 PM	#1
Luke Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 60	HDV color depth? Hello, Does HDV have more color depth than SD making it slightly more "filmic"? I was just reading about sky replacement to create more depth, and it got me thinking (I'm still deciding on a camera, and whether or not to go HD). Thanks, Luke __________________ Luke Springer

May 24th, 2007, 09:53 PM	#3
Luke Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 60	Thanks for the reply... I am trying to decide between a Canon XL2, Sony V1U, or maybe a JVC HD100...it sounds like an HD camera would be best for keying (you're right, sky replacement is the same as keying) Thanks, Luke __________________ Luke Springer

May 25th, 2007, 04:47 PM	#6
Luke Springer Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Washington Posts: 60	Thank you, Unfortunately, I don't have clients (yet). I am going to produce my own short films, and documentaries. I think I could probably work with HD fairly smoothly, so workflow is probably not an issue now. --Luke __________________ Luke Springer

May 23rd, 2007, 09:28 PM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	By color depth I am guessing you mean chroma resolution (more or less color resolution). In my opinion, color resolution does not contribute much to make things look filmic. 2- If you're looking at doing sky replacements, a camera with low noise and high chroma resolution will likely be good (this is the case with keying, so I assume that sky replacement is similar). Low noise is important. Also important is how much resolution the camera's sensor(s) are capable of... you have to look at the whole system. The JVC 720p cameras key just as well as some 1080 cameras. 3- 1080 HDV is: 1440x1080 luma 720x540 chroma If the footage is interlaced, chroma performance is effectively around 720x270. NTSC DV is: 720x480 luma 180x480 chroma PAL DVCPRO: 720x576 luma 180x576 chroma PAL DV + DVCAM: 720x576 luma 360x288 chroma If the footage is interlaced, chroma performance is effectively around 360x144. They all generally look good. Extremely saturated colors will stress the color subsampling though... the worst probably being green text on a magenta background (blue/yellow and red/cyan look bad too). But it's unlikely that you'd run into that situation.