HMC150-24p slow motion at DVinfo.net

Greg Harris · February 20th, 2009, 01:30 PM

I have dvx100 and getting the 150 soon. I was just curious can you put footage, lets say shot in 720 24p in slow motion and it have a smooth image? I have seen some shots where people say it's 720 24p and its very slow motion and looks really smooth.

Also, since it has a 72mm lens front will my dvx UV filters fit on the 150???

thanks

Johnny Clark · February 20th, 2009, 01:36 PM

1. Shoot the video that you want as slow motion in 60p.

2. Import the video (60p) into a 24p timeline.

Doing this will give a 40% speed of the acquired footage (smooth). If you are a FCP user, use Cinema Tools and 'conform' the 60p footage to 23.98fps. Good luck, it's really fun.

Any 72mm attachment will work on the HMC150.

Barry Green · February 21st, 2009, 11:43 AM

You can shoot 720/60p and drop that into a 24p timeline for frame-accurate perfect slow motion.

And yes, 72mm filters from the DVX will also work on the HMC150.

Joe Riggs · March 2nd, 2009, 04:00 AM

What if you were shooting a wedding and wanted slow motion? In that situation, I tend to use slow motion a lot and I like to decide what will be slowed down in post. So would you shoot the whole wedding in 60p?

Jordan Berry · March 2nd, 2009, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Riggs

What if you were shooting a wedding and wanted slow motion? In that situation, I tend to use slow motion a lot and I like to decide what will be slowed down in post. So would you shoot the whole wedding in 60p?

That is a decision you will have to make.

What is more important to you? Low light performance or slow motion?

In a lot light situation you will notice a big difference between 24 and 60.

I'm not sure about mixing the two... maybe someone can comment on that.

Barry Green · March 2nd, 2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Riggs

I tend to use slow motion a lot and I like to decide what will be slowed down in post. So would you shoot the whole wedding in 60p?

Yep. There's not much disadvantage, since the 150 uses the same bandwidth to record 24p as it does to record 60p.

Jordan Berry · March 2nd, 2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Yep. There's not much disadvantage, since the 150 uses the same bandwidth to record 24p as it does to record 60p.

I find the low light disadvantage to be pretty significant (on my A1 anyway).

Joe Riggs · March 2nd, 2009, 10:10 PM

I am used to shooting with the vx2100 which is superb in low light. However, from the samples I have seen on the net the HMC works well in low light with a little gain. Surprisingly the gain does not decimate the image quality.

So if I shoot the wedding at 60p in order to able to slow whatever part of the wedding I want in post, what is the work flow (if I want most of the wedding at regular speed, and the rest in slow mo)? Would I drop it in a 60p timeline and slow it there, or drop everything in 24p timeline and conform the desired slow motion areas tp 23.987?

I am using a quad core windows machine with CS4

Thank You

Matt Stahley · March 3rd, 2009, 11:18 AM

Not sure how to deal with the footage in CS4 but with the Mac and FCP we have software Cinema Tools and you conform the 60p to 24 p and it gives you instant slo-mo. Here is a test I did I even slowed the footage down more by 50% in the timeline. Still pretty smooth. The last 2 clips of the chickadee are the normal 60p>24p without the 50% slow down

Birds feeding slo-mo on Vimeo

Tom Hardwick · March 3rd, 2009, 11:43 AM

Your 72 mm filters will indeed fit the 150 but because the 150 has a much shorter focal length at the wide end than the DVX it's much more important that you use filters *onlywhenyoumust*. Generally it's a lot better to filter in post as that way they can be undone, you don't compromise your lens hood's efficiency and flare will be kept to a minimum.

tom.

Dana Salsbury · March 4th, 2009, 03:23 AM

Great discussion!

So can I film a multi-cam prep and ceremony in 60p (for the slo-mo) and the reception in 24p (for the low light) then mix it together in FCP?

What would happen if I forgot to change one of the cams to 24p?

Also, how essential is it to use Cinema Tools and conform the 60p footage to 23.98fps?

Frederic Segard · March 31st, 2009, 07:25 PM

I was under the impression that you loose a stop from 60p to 24p, not the other way around. But I may be mistaken. Can someone confirm?

Jordan Berry · April 1st, 2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frederic Segard

I was under the impression that you loose a stop from 60p to 24p, not the other way around. But I may be mistaken. Can someone confirm?

Use your logic. The higher the shutter speed the less light can reach the camera's sensor.

Frederic Segard · April 1st, 2009, 05:36 AM

Yes, logic would dictate that, I agree... but on the DVX, you loose about a stop at 24p 1/48, compared to 60i 1/60 (same iris opening). If this issue in non-existant on the HMC150, then I'd be a vary happy man. One more reason to go on board with the HMC150 more quickly then anticipated.

Barry Green · April 3rd, 2009, 12:53 PM

The DVX gained a stop when going from 24p to 60i, irrespective of shutter speed (meaning, if you set 'em both at 1/60, you'd still see a stop difference in sensitivity). The HMC150 doesn't gain when going to 60i (or 60p), instead it loses about 1/4 stop when going from 24p to 60i (or 60p).

February 20th, 2009, 01:30 PM	#1
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	HMC150-24p slow motion I have dvx100 and getting the 150 soon. I was just curious can you put footage, lets say shot in 720 24p in slow motion and it have a smooth image? I have seen some shots where people say it's 720 24p and its very slow motion and looks really smooth. Also, since it has a 72mm lens front will my dvx UV filters fit on the 150??? thanks

March 4th, 2009, 03:23 AM	#11
Dana Salsbury Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 859	Great discussion! So can I film a multi-cam prep and ceremony in 60p (for the slo-mo) and the reception in 24p (for the low light) then mix it together in FCP? What would happen if I forgot to change one of the cams to 24p? Also, how essential is it to use Cinema Tools and conform the 60p footage to 23.98fps? __________________ www.LegacyHDV.com Weddings \| Corporate \| HMC150s \| FCPX \| Encore \| Lion

February 20th, 2009, 01:36 PM	#2
Johnny Clark New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 22	1. Shoot the video that you want as slow motion in 60p. 2. Import the video (60p) into a 24p timeline. Doing this will give a 40% speed of the acquired footage (smooth). If you are a FCP user, use Cinema Tools and 'conform' the 60p footage to 23.98fps. Good luck, it's really fun. Any 72mm attachment will work on the HMC150.

February 21st, 2009, 11:43 AM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	You can shoot 720/60p and drop that into a 24p timeline for frame-accurate perfect slow motion. And yes, 72mm filters from the DVX will also work on the HMC150.

March 2nd, 2009, 04:00 AM	#4
Joe Riggs Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 189	What if you were shooting a wedding and wanted slow motion? In that situation, I tend to use slow motion a lot and I like to decide what will be slowed down in post. So would you shoot the whole wedding in 60p?

March 2nd, 2009, 10:10 PM	#8
Joe Riggs Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 189	I am used to shooting with the vx2100 which is superb in low light. However, from the samples I have seen on the net the HMC works well in low light with a little gain. Surprisingly the gain does not decimate the image quality. So if I shoot the wedding at 60p in order to able to slow whatever part of the wedding I want in post, what is the work flow (if I want most of the wedding at regular speed, and the rest in slow mo)? Would I drop it in a 60p timeline and slow it there, or drop everything in 24p timeline and conform the desired slow motion areas tp 23.987? I am using a quad core windows machine with CS4 Thank You

March 3rd, 2009, 11:18 AM	#9
Matt Stahley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Waynesboro, PA Posts: 648	Not sure how to deal with the footage in CS4 but with the Mac and FCP we have software Cinema Tools and you conform the 60p to 24 p and it gives you instant slo-mo. Here is a test I did I even slowed the footage down more by 50% in the timeline. Still pretty smooth. The last 2 clips of the chickadee are the normal 60p>24p without the 50% slow down Birds feeding slo-mo on Vimeo

March 3rd, 2009, 11:43 AM	#10
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Your 72 mm filters will indeed fit the 150 but because the 150 has a much shorter focal length at the wide end than the DVX it's much more important that you use filters onlywhenyoumust. Generally it's a lot better to filter in post as that way they can be undone, you don't compromise your lens hood's efficiency and flare will be kept to a minimum. tom.

March 31st, 2009, 07:25 PM	#12
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	I was under the impression that you loose a stop from 60p to 24p, not the other way around. But I may be mistaken. Can someone confirm?

April 1st, 2009, 05:36 AM	#14
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	Yes, logic would dictate that, I agree... but on the DVX, you loose about a stop at 24p 1/48, compared to 60i 1/60 (same iris opening). If this issue in non-existant on the HMC150, then I'd be a vary happy man. One more reason to go on board with the HMC150 more quickly then anticipated.

April 3rd, 2009, 12:53 PM	#15
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The DVX gained a stop when going from 24p to 60i, irrespective of shutter speed (meaning, if you set 'em both at 1/60, you'd still see a stop difference in sensitivity). The HMC150 doesn't gain when going to 60i (or 60p), instead it loses about 1/4 stop when going from 24p to 60i (or 60p).