popup flash or "video flash" performance? at DVinfo.net

John McRae · September 9th, 2003, 12:35 AM

I've gone through about all the threads on this forum pertaining to the NV-GS100K, as well as the Panasonic web site describing the product. I don't see any comment or specifications regarding the popup flash that is on the camera itself, or comments about the "video flash" (FLHDJ3) accessory. (The website just points out that the popup is there, and the accessory list says nothing specifically about the video flash. Or, did I not track down the correct page? I can read the Japanese, as a fun sort of chore... )

So, the question is: does anyone have any experience using the popup flash or video flash?

Why should I ask? I plan on doing some fieldwork filming/photography at an upcoming celebration of Soto Zen Buddhism in Hawai'i, and I'd like to use the GS100 for stills. Bottom line question is: should I buy the video flash?

Thanks for your help!!

Frank Granovski · September 9th, 2003, 12:57 AM

Built-in pop-up flashes on camcorders are not powerful enough to handle distance more than about 10 feet. In photography, the more powerful the flash, the better the results.

Patricia Kim · September 9th, 2003, 04:31 AM

John, can't speak to the issue of flash quality, however, wanted to point out that with the GS100K, you can take a still photo in the middle of shooting a video (press the same mega OIS button you would for stills). You will get a frame with the shutter closing and opening, as well as the sound involved, of course. But once past that frame, you also get a perfectly useable still. On the other hand, you will not have to switch from video to picture mode, you can keep your soundtrack going, and if you are inside with less light, you won't have to tinker with your settings. In fact, if you shoot in auto rather than manual mode, you will be able to use the "night view" enhancement. The other possibility is to extract a frame from your video if you want a still. The quality may well be better than the still taken on the SD card. Try shooting indoors on auto pilot without a filter to test it out first before going for stills on the SD card.

Peter Jefferson · September 9th, 2003, 09:17 AM

actually ythe still image on teh MX500 is pretty much identical to teh GS, however as teh GS has afew extra lines it boosts the pixel count from 3mp (mx) to 3.1(gs)

on tape you can get some good stll, however you are capturing at DV resolutions of the camera itself.

using the memory card in card mode, allows you to run the Mega OIS which is an enhanced stabiliser.

Once your target goes from white to green, you will know that your image is static and 3.1 mp will be used (interlaced) for the image.

these are huge so a card with 128mb min is a must.

also, in card mode, you can run a slower shutter and the cam itself works as a standard SLR cam or a Nikon 5400.
It IS in effect (regardless of what people say) a good camera to use for stills.
Put it this way, i use this cam to take still images of peoples weddings and have not had one complaint yet.
Excellent for printing.

I also extract files (as mentioned above) using Vegas, However these are only as good as your preview window is configured.
On top of that resolution will remain standard DV, no more no less.
To take advantage of this feature, its best to record in frame mode as Interlacing is not used, so you have no blurring (unless your subject is moving too fast for your shutter speed.)

The difference is that in Post, you can be frame accurate with your grabs...

Going back to card....the quality is above exceptional and the flash is workable at a distance once you work out your shutter speeds to distance.
Card mode gives you 1/25 shutter speed (not available in video)and the unit also compensates for lower light (theres a menu function to turn it on or off)

DOF is good ONLY in manual mode thou...

pop up flash is good, and it can be adjustable. Red eye also wrks quite well, but the auto iris sometimes lags behind when that is being used.

the video light, well, i been tryin to find one for a loooongtime (this is the one that uses an MX battery for power yeah??)

anywyas hope this gives some insight.

John McRae · September 9th, 2003, 01:17 PM

Patricia Kim wrote:

"with the GS100K, you can take a still photo in the middle of shooting a video (press the same mega OIS button you would for stills). You will get a frame with the shutter closing and opening, as well as the sound involved, of course."

I don't quite get it: is it that the video then includes a bad frame (or two?), when the shutter closes and opens? Or is it that all this happens without disrupting the video, and taking a still actually results in taking a couple of stills? Pardon me for being dense... :)

BTW, what's the largest SD card that the camera will take?

Patricia Kim · September 9th, 2003, 03:56 PM

The still image is recorded on the dv tape, so the video will have the frame with the shutter opening and closing (as well as the sound involved).

The camcorder will take a 512MB card, if you want to go that way, but you have to shop carefully - there's really a price jump when you get into that range.

BTW, as you can tell by Marius' posted pictures and Peter J's testimony, stills shot on the card can be quite good. The issue from my point of view is whether, if you are in a dynamic situation, you want to fool around with switching back and forth between picture and video. I think once you get into a situation where you are recording dialogue or music, for example, you may find you would rather risk the sound of the shutter (or no still at all), rather than lose the sound. It's easy enough to edit out or gloss over somebody walking in front of you in video mode, but there's no replacement for that lost sound track. Just my point of view, of course.

Bogdan Vaglarov · September 9th, 2003, 07:15 PM

Video light is for video - it's not a flash. When you switch it on it lights all the time.
The onboard flash is not accessory - it's already there so no need to specify it separatly from the cam.

Card stills with flash are decent. High resolution but also a bit high noise - not up to the level of mid market 3 Mega Pixel digital camera. Flash works very well (better and stronger than on my Canon S45) and you get help from the low lite mode as noterd from Peter and Patricia.

As Peter noted you'll get low resolution (640x480) unusable for prints if you take 'still' in video mode. While shooting if you press the shutter the moment will be captured for 7 seconds running same still on the tape with the sound of the action still recording for this 7 seconds. Then the video is returned and you continue to see moving motion and record normal video. This 'still' video is more like an effect than real photo - you can use it smart to stress on some important moments in your video without losing the sound.
Example: You shoot in museum a piece of art (if they let you) with your friends around - you press the shutter so you can have it in close up for 7 seconds still. You can do same thing at home pressing the Pause on your remote.

Allan Rejoso · September 9th, 2003, 09:58 PM

Shutter (sound and opening/closing) is just an effect. You can turn it off if you want (through the menu). Default setting is ON.

The built in flash is most effective (in a dark room) up to 2.5m only. If you want a stronger flash (for stills), you can buy the FLHDJ3 (up to 4m).

Video light LDH3 is a Bogdan described...rated 3W only and supposed to be most effective up to 1m only (in a dark room).

IMO, stills recorded to tape do look great when viewed on TV (especially when you take it after pressing the pause button!)..but definitely not enough resolution for printing.

Patricia Kim · September 9th, 2003, 11:29 PM

Hey, Allan, thanks for that piece of information. Didn't even dawn on me when I was fooling around and "discovered" this little feature that part of it was "chooseable". Great. Now I get to keep all of the soundtrack and have my still, too. Apologies to John, by the way, for having diverted the discussion so far off the track.

September 9th, 2003, 12:35 AM	#1
John McRae New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawai'i Posts: 13	popup flash or "video flash" performance? I've gone through about all the threads on this forum pertaining to the NV-GS100K, as well as the Panasonic web site describing the product. I don't see any comment or specifications regarding the popup flash that is on the camera itself, or comments about the "video flash" (FLHDJ3) accessory. (The website just points out that the popup is there, and the accessory list says nothing specifically about the video flash. Or, did I not track down the correct page? I can read the Japanese, as a fun sort of chore... ) So, the question is: does anyone have any experience using the popup flash or video flash? Why should I ask? I plan on doing some fieldwork filming/photography at an upcoming celebration of Soto Zen Buddhism in Hawai'i, and I'd like to use the GS100 for stills. Bottom line question is: should I buy the video flash? Thanks for your help!!

September 9th, 2003, 12:57 AM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Built-in pop-up flashes on camcorders are not powerful enough to handle distance more than about 10 feet. In photography, the more powerful the flash, the better the results.

September 9th, 2003, 04:31 AM	#3
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	John, can't speak to the issue of flash quality, however, wanted to point out that with the GS100K, you can take a still photo in the middle of shooting a video (press the same mega OIS button you would for stills). You will get a frame with the shutter closing and opening, as well as the sound involved, of course. But once past that frame, you also get a perfectly useable still. On the other hand, you will not have to switch from video to picture mode, you can keep your soundtrack going, and if you are inside with less light, you won't have to tinker with your settings. In fact, if you shoot in auto rather than manual mode, you will be able to use the "night view" enhancement. The other possibility is to extract a frame from your video if you want a still. The quality may well be better than the still taken on the SD card. Try shooting indoors on auto pilot without a filter to test it out first before going for stills on the SD card.

September 9th, 2003, 09:17 AM	#4
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	actually ythe still image on teh MX500 is pretty much identical to teh GS, however as teh GS has afew extra lines it boosts the pixel count from 3mp (mx) to 3.1(gs) on tape you can get some good stll, however you are capturing at DV resolutions of the camera itself. using the memory card in card mode, allows you to run the Mega OIS which is an enhanced stabiliser. Once your target goes from white to green, you will know that your image is static and 3.1 mp will be used (interlaced) for the image. these are huge so a card with 128mb min is a must. also, in card mode, you can run a slower shutter and the cam itself works as a standard SLR cam or a Nikon 5400. It IS in effect (regardless of what people say) a good camera to use for stills. Put it this way, i use this cam to take still images of peoples weddings and have not had one complaint yet. Excellent for printing. I also extract files (as mentioned above) using Vegas, However these are only as good as your preview window is configured. On top of that resolution will remain standard DV, no more no less. To take advantage of this feature, its best to record in frame mode as Interlacing is not used, so you have no blurring (unless your subject is moving too fast for your shutter speed.) The difference is that in Post, you can be frame accurate with your grabs... Going back to card....the quality is above exceptional and the flash is workable at a distance once you work out your shutter speeds to distance. Card mode gives you 1/25 shutter speed (not available in video)and the unit also compensates for lower light (theres a menu function to turn it on or off) DOF is good ONLY in manual mode thou... pop up flash is good, and it can be adjustable. Red eye also wrks quite well, but the auto iris sometimes lags behind when that is being used. the video light, well, i been tryin to find one for a loooongtime (this is the one that uses an MX battery for power yeah??) anywyas hope this gives some insight.

September 9th, 2003, 01:17 PM	#5
John McRae New Boot Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawai'i Posts: 13	Patricia Kim wrote: "with the GS100K, you can take a still photo in the middle of shooting a video (press the same mega OIS button you would for stills). You will get a frame with the shutter closing and opening, as well as the sound involved, of course." I don't quite get it: is it that the video then includes a bad frame (or two?), when the shutter closes and opens? Or is it that all this happens without disrupting the video, and taking a still actually results in taking a couple of stills? Pardon me for being dense... :) BTW, what's the largest SD card that the camera will take?

September 9th, 2003, 03:56 PM	#6
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	The still image is recorded on the dv tape, so the video will have the frame with the shutter opening and closing (as well as the sound involved). The camcorder will take a 512MB card, if you want to go that way, but you have to shop carefully - there's really a price jump when you get into that range. BTW, as you can tell by Marius' posted pictures and Peter J's testimony, stills shot on the card can be quite good. The issue from my point of view is whether, if you are in a dynamic situation, you want to fool around with switching back and forth between picture and video. I think once you get into a situation where you are recording dialogue or music, for example, you may find you would rather risk the sound of the shutter (or no still at all), rather than lose the sound. It's easy enough to edit out or gloss over somebody walking in front of you in video mode, but there's no replacement for that lost sound track. Just my point of view, of course.

September 9th, 2003, 07:15 PM	#7
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Video light is for video - it's not a flash. When you switch it on it lights all the time. The onboard flash is not accessory - it's already there so no need to specify it separatly from the cam. Card stills with flash are decent. High resolution but also a bit high noise - not up to the level of mid market 3 Mega Pixel digital camera. Flash works very well (better and stronger than on my Canon S45) and you get help from the low lite mode as noterd from Peter and Patricia. As Peter noted you'll get low resolution (640x480) unusable for prints if you take 'still' in video mode. While shooting if you press the shutter the moment will be captured for 7 seconds running same still on the tape with the sound of the action still recording for this 7 seconds. Then the video is returned and you continue to see moving motion and record normal video. This 'still' video is more like an effect than real photo - you can use it smart to stress on some important moments in your video without losing the sound. Example: You shoot in museum a piece of art (if they let you) with your friends around - you press the shutter so you can have it in close up for 7 seconds still. You can do same thing at home pressing the Pause on your remote.

September 9th, 2003, 09:58 PM	#8
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Shutter (sound and opening/closing) is just an effect. You can turn it off if you want (through the menu). Default setting is ON. The built in flash is most effective (in a dark room) up to 2.5m only. If you want a stronger flash (for stills), you can buy the FLHDJ3 (up to 4m). Video light LDH3 is a Bogdan described...rated 3W only and supposed to be most effective up to 1m only (in a dark room). IMO, stills recorded to tape do look great when viewed on TV (especially when you take it after pressing the pause button!)..but definitely not enough resolution for printing.

September 9th, 2003, 11:29 PM	#9
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Hey, Allan, thanks for that piece of information. Didn't even dawn on me when I was fooling around and "discovered" this little feature that part of it was "chooseable". Great. Now I get to keep all of the soundtrack and have my still, too. Apologies to John, by the way, for having diverted the discussion so far off the track.