New buyer stumped on which camera to get at DVinfo.net

Ryan Schaaf · January 12th, 2004, 02:26 AM

I dont have much money to work with here so take that into acount.
Ive been looking at the DV852 wich is on sale everywhere
the Canon Optura 20
and the GS70 or whatever (the 3ccd one from panasonic)

i like the larger screen of the canon, the optical stabilizer on the 852, the 3ccd capabilities of the 70, the hot shoe on the optura 20 and the fact that the 852 is supposed to be one of the best single chips out there..

anyone have experience with these cameras?
also...
accessories are a fun part of camcorders.. external mics specificaly... i dont think either of the panasonics shoes are hot, but can you still add lights and mics thru adapters.... (ive been having a hard time finding accessories for the panasonics) i would like to have those capabilities on my camera.

thanks for the help in advance.
ryan

Frank Granovski · January 12th, 2004, 03:54 AM

The PV-DV852 is about twice the cam than the other 2. But the Optura 20 and GS70 aren't too bad. If you like Canons, look at the older Optura 100MC, if you can still find one---the 200MC wasn't bad. Personally, I really don't think much of the GS70, though it seems to be okay. The PV-DV953 is a much better cam than the GS70. What's the going B&H price of it these days? If you don't have a lot of money, my suggestion is to seriously consider going with the 852, before they disappear. Many people have been kicking themselves in the---, when the 100MC was no more. I'm sure many more will be doing the same when the 852 becomes a piece of cam history.

Ryan Schaaf · January 12th, 2004, 04:12 AM

well there are still a few 200mc floating around... all though the price is somewhat higher that i would have imagined. I wish the optura xi was cheaper than it is becuase i love the syle and every thing about it... its just too much.
I could get a Optura 20 and the DM50 mic and still be hundreds below the price of the xi...

im just not sure about the DV852... ive held several Panasonics and they just dont seem to work with my hands.... dunno..

know anything about sony... not sure if i like them or not... just checking all options.

Frank Granovski · January 12th, 2004, 05:31 AM

You must have very very small hands? I found the 852 much easier to hold than the Optura 100MC and 200MC.

Quote:

im just not sure about the DV852... ive held several Panasonics and they just dont seem to work with my hands.... dunno

Yow Cheong Hoe · January 12th, 2004, 08:12 AM

I'll speak my mind here on the GS70:

The 3CCD is just placed there to make the camera 'smallest 3CCD cam in the world'. Nothing on this GS70 is near the pro-sumer range.

That said,
The DV852 is a very good 1CCD cam, you'll probably not be able to tell the footage from cheap 3CCD cams.

The DV953 is a great cam with good features, although it is not exactly the best deal in low lights.

Canon cams has nice features and handling, and good software to handle noise.

Allan Rejoso · January 12th, 2004, 10:46 PM

...The DV852 is a very good 1CCD cam, you'll probably not be able to tell the footage from cheap 3CCD cams.

I played with the MX1000 (DV852) and compact 3-CCD GS70 during the weekend and the color difference is quite easy to tell. That of the MX1000 looked dull compared tothe GS70, but nonetheless looked natural.

Fred Alberni · January 12th, 2004, 11:45 PM

Allan,

Do you actually own both camcorders? If so, I think a lot of people would be really interested in a low light comparison between the two, if that is not asking for too much.

Frank Granovski · January 12th, 2004, 11:50 PM

Fred, Allen tests these cams, he also sells Japanese Domestics (just for us). The PV-DV852 (MX1000) was one of the best low light cams ever made, plus it's playback resolution is a whooping 530 lines! (Source, Pana Technical).

Fred Alberni · January 12th, 2004, 11:56 PM

Frank,

Thanks for the clarification. But I'm wondering if Allen would be judging the dullness of colors by the LCD. I think the DV852 LCD is pretty marginal.

Frank Granovski · January 13th, 2004, 01:22 AM

You should really read Allen's older posts using our search feature. I don't know why you assume Allen used the LCD to judge the dullness of the colours. In Japan, any store will let you hook up with any of the new TV's, unlike here in Vancouver and elsewhere in North America, with the odd exception.

Allan Rejoso · January 13th, 2004, 08:50 AM

No I never judge any cam based on LCD video as the quality of LCD varies from maker to maker, model to model. Shooting friends gathered during the long weekend and we played with our gears using a 32 inch Wega.

If you want the best looking LCD, (too good looking compared to footage seen on TV), the GS100K has it.

Actually, MX1000 has a very high resolution 3.5 LCD as well, very sharp and nice color saturation LCD. Even better looking than that of MX5000. YowCh knows this very well.

My gear is the Jap version of Optura100, and yes, I still think its video quality look better than that of MX1000, although I prefer the manual features of the Pany. Color saturation of Canon and Pany color saturation are quite similar IMO. But compared to the GS100 under indoor conditions and low-light conditions, even my Optura cant match in color quality and retention.

Allan Rejoso · January 13th, 2004, 09:04 AM

BTW, regardless of the GS70 having better looking color than the MX1000, I still prefer the overall image quality of the MX1000. I see big halos on the GS70 but the irony of it all is, image is not as sharp as that of 1MP 1CCD cams. Also, it's hunting badly at 1x zoom. Thought I could have played with a defective unit initially (last year), but I see it all the time.

In fairness to the GS70, low-light tests by Jap reviewers show that it performs well in low-light, probably due to its low resolution CCD.

Fred Alberni · January 13th, 2004, 08:24 PM

The GS100 sound really good. I wish I had discovered this forum and found out about these Japanese models earlier. Well, maybe in about a year I'll be ready for something new.

January 12th, 2004, 02:26 AM	#1
Ryan Schaaf Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 2	New buyer stumped on which camera to get I dont have much money to work with here so take that into acount. Ive been looking at the DV852 wich is on sale everywhere the Canon Optura 20 and the GS70 or whatever (the 3ccd one from panasonic) i like the larger screen of the canon, the optical stabilizer on the 852, the 3ccd capabilities of the 70, the hot shoe on the optura 20 and the fact that the 852 is supposed to be one of the best single chips out there.. anyone have experience with these cameras? also... accessories are a fun part of camcorders.. external mics specificaly... i dont think either of the panasonics shoes are hot, but can you still add lights and mics thru adapters.... (ive been having a hard time finding accessories for the panasonics) i would like to have those capabilities on my camera. thanks for the help in advance. ryan

January 12th, 2004, 03:54 AM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	The PV-DV852 is about twice the cam than the other 2. But the Optura 20 and GS70 aren't too bad. If you like Canons, look at the older Optura 100MC, if you can still find one---the 200MC wasn't bad. Personally, I really don't think much of the GS70, though it seems to be okay. The PV-DV953 is a much better cam than the GS70. What's the going B&H price of it these days? If you don't have a lot of money, my suggestion is to seriously consider going with the 852, before they disappear. Many people have been kicking themselves in the---, when the 100MC was no more. I'm sure many more will be doing the same when the 852 becomes a piece of cam history.

January 12th, 2004, 04:12 AM	#3
Ryan Schaaf Tourist Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 2	well there are still a few 200mc floating around... all though the price is somewhat higher that i would have imagined. I wish the optura xi was cheaper than it is becuase i love the syle and every thing about it... its just too much. I could get a Optura 20 and the DM50 mic and still be hundreds below the price of the xi... im just not sure about the DV852... ive held several Panasonics and they just dont seem to work with my hands.... dunno.. know anything about sony... not sure if i like them or not... just checking all options.

January 12th, 2004, 08:12 AM	#5
Yow Cheong Hoe Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Singapore, Passport: Malaysia Posts: 407	I'll speak my mind here on the GS70: The 3CCD is just placed there to make the camera 'smallest 3CCD cam in the world'. Nothing on this GS70 is near the pro-sumer range. That said, The DV852 is a very good 1CCD cam, you'll probably not be able to tell the footage from cheap 3CCD cams. The DV953 is a great cam with good features, although it is not exactly the best deal in low lights. Canon cams has nice features and handling, and good software to handle noise.

January 12th, 2004, 10:46 PM	#6
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	...The DV852 is a very good 1CCD cam, you'll probably not be able to tell the footage from cheap 3CCD cams. I played with the MX1000 (DV852) and compact 3-CCD GS70 during the weekend and the color difference is quite easy to tell. That of the MX1000 looked dull compared tothe GS70, but nonetheless looked natural.

January 12th, 2004, 11:45 PM	#7
Fred Alberni New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Near Seattle Posts: 24	Allan, Do you actually own both camcorders? If so, I think a lot of people would be really interested in a low light comparison between the two, if that is not asking for too much.

January 12th, 2004, 11:50 PM	#8
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Fred, Allen tests these cams, he also sells Japanese Domestics (just for us). The PV-DV852 (MX1000) was one of the best low light cams ever made, plus it's playback resolution is a whooping 530 lines! (Source, Pana Technical).

January 12th, 2004, 11:56 PM	#9
Fred Alberni New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Near Seattle Posts: 24	Frank, Thanks for the clarification. But I'm wondering if Allen would be judging the dullness of colors by the LCD. I think the DV852 LCD is pretty marginal.

January 13th, 2004, 01:22 AM	#10
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	You should really read Allen's older posts using our search feature. I don't know why you assume Allen used the LCD to judge the dullness of the colours. In Japan, any store will let you hook up with any of the new TV's, unlike here in Vancouver and elsewhere in North America, with the odd exception.

January 13th, 2004, 08:50 AM	#11
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	No I never judge any cam based on LCD video as the quality of LCD varies from maker to maker, model to model. Shooting friends gathered during the long weekend and we played with our gears using a 32 inch Wega. If you want the best looking LCD, (too good looking compared to footage seen on TV), the GS100K has it. Actually, MX1000 has a very high resolution 3.5 LCD as well, very sharp and nice color saturation LCD. Even better looking than that of MX5000. YowCh knows this very well. My gear is the Jap version of Optura100, and yes, I still think its video quality look better than that of MX1000, although I prefer the manual features of the Pany. Color saturation of Canon and Pany color saturation are quite similar IMO. But compared to the GS100 under indoor conditions and low-light conditions, even my Optura cant match in color quality and retention.

January 13th, 2004, 09:04 AM	#12
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	BTW, regardless of the GS70 having better looking color than the MX1000, I still prefer the overall image quality of the MX1000. I see big halos on the GS70 but the irony of it all is, image is not as sharp as that of 1MP 1CCD cams. Also, it's hunting badly at 1x zoom. Thought I could have played with a defective unit initially (last year), but I see it all the time. In fairness to the GS70, low-light tests by Jap reviewers show that it performs well in low-light, probably due to its low resolution CCD.

January 13th, 2004, 08:24 PM	#13
Fred Alberni New Boot Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Near Seattle Posts: 24	The GS100 sound really good. I wish I had discovered this forum and found out about these Japanese models earlier. Well, maybe in about a year I'll be ready for something new.