GS400
 

PV-GS400/NV-GS400


3CCD x 1,070,000 pixels
CCD size 1/4.7"
4 MEGA still (2304 x 1728)
Lens 58 mm
Leica Dicomar Lens
Crystal Engine
10xOptical Zoom
Telemacro Mode
MEGA O.I.S.

Pro Cinema Mode
High Picture-Quality Wide Mode
Colour Night View
Soft Skin Mode
Motion Video/Still Picture (1 MEGA) Simultaneous Rec
True recording 25 images/sec video MPEG4 (PAL version)

Multi Manual Ring
3.5" LCD Monitor
Air Soft Grip
Built-in Flash

4ECM stereo microphone
Wind noise decrease function

SD/MMC Card Compatible
USB 2 (HS Mode)
Webcam

Quick start
DV/Analogue In- and OUtput
MX500/DV953 replacement


This is what we know so far. It is possible that you may be able to record HD footage (at least on the SD or trough FireWire).

More than likely you can snap megapixel stills to SD memory while recording video to tape but I highly doubt that it will be 30fps or able to be output via firewire.

George did you just combine the specs so far or is this from a particular site?

specs were compiled from different pages.

Tommy, FireWire can go up to 400Mbps. I think that will be sufficient for 30 fps HD. Looks to me like the technology is there...
(and when we talk about HD here, it will be at most 720p)

The fact that you can snap 1 Mega pic while recording means that the cam is processign the images in 1Mega quality while video recording. Of cource the limitation of miniDV and more over it's codec will limit the quality down to DV format (when recorded on a tape), I doubt they have changed the compression (it will not be HDV for sure), but there are no sign for different type of tape compresson to be used by Pana yet. Maybe they have their own version in development, but I would think they are moving towards P2 and direct drive recording with no tape.

I didn't mean that Firewire doesn't have the capability of transferring HD content (at least HDV) but moreover that I doubt that Panasonic will allow a full megapixel output via firewire. At least that was the case with my past Sony PDX10 with its 1.07 megapixel 3CCD arrangement. Not saying its not possible but that its not likely. In the case of the PDX10 you gained increased horizontal and vertical real estate but it would still output 720x480 via firewire and made for a soft picture compared to standard interlaced output.

Here is a frame grab via firewire from the PDX10 in video mode

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...0mobovideo.JPG

Here is the frame grab via firewire in still mode (noticed the increased real estate but loss in resolution)

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-...mobomemory.JPG

Of course the PDX10 could not take megapixel stills while recording video but that still does not indicate that the GS400's firewire output will pass anything other than 720x480 (NTSC).

I see...
and yes, if they decide to put a "cap" and to limit GS400 output it's possible.

The reason I think GS400 will be able to spit-out HD720 is that the cam's video circutry can processes the frames with this resolution. (shown by the fact of 1Mega still capture while recording)

Where the PDX10 will process them in NTSC(720x480) (and when you take a still while you are recording, it will be NTSC size)

I guess the reason the poorer quality image of the still you get is that even though you get a large size image, it goes through the video image circutry (which forces it to NTSC standard) and the size reduction does not have a good algorithm.

but until Pana releases the full specs we'll be just guessing =/

Yep, guessing and waiting.

If it turns out to have a secret 720p mode I'd be forced to buy two!

If the gs400 does 720p then i will eat a whole hat store.

But that's not gonna happen. :)

What's not going to happan? The GS4 having 720P or Tommy eating a hat store? My guess it'll only come with MX5 or GS1 widescreen and MPEG4 for uploading to the Internet. Perhaps you can ask Pana Japan about this. info@panasonic.jp

sorry guys but i think that we are getting ahead of ourselves. i would expect that being 3ccd, if it was HD (the first on the market with 3ccd) it would be a lot more expensive than that. The camera will always be processing larger images than it records. it will have to downscale to dv resolution. The difference with a HD cam and dv cam is that the HD cam will have hardware in it to compress the footage to mpeg2 and then record that to tape. that is where the extra cost comes. I can tell you now that a card for your computer that does this in sd real time will cost you at least $500. maybe 200-300 in the us. this is a fair bit of money so you consider one built small enough to put in a camera that will do video in HD and you would be looking at some expensive hardware.
Justin

According to Allan (who lives and works in Japan), HD in Japan does not mean what it means in North America. It just means high defininition/high resolution...I think.

I've got my first class tickets to Vancouver already! I want to see Tavis eat that hat store!! :-)))

Tavis, I'll bring the salt and pepper if you bring the catsup...

Justin, if you take the case of sony's PDX10 (having the same CCD as GS400) you'll see that it processes only NTSC actually just go back and read the posts. (and as talked about HDV is not possible, and miniDV .. actually go back and read all posts =) )

Guy, I'll bring catchup and a GS400, and I'll record him eating the hats in HD720 =)
just to make sure he doesn't miss a hat ;-)

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : According to Allan (who lives and works in Japan), HD in Japan does not mean what it means in North America. It just means high defininition/high resolution...I think. -->>>

That is the funniest thing I heard about HDTV. High Definition in Japan means the same as in US. They just sometimes like to call it Hi Vision but it is the same.

GS400 is SD DV camcorder. It does not or will not record HD. DV format does not have bandwith to record HD unless it is compressed into MPEG2 like JVC camera does. Besides anything lower than 60fps sucks as far as motion. You can see that when watching JVC HD cam output.

BTW, firewire output is raw transport stream from a tape. There is no way to cap it unless it is recompressed again.

Also when HD camcorder will come out it will be a lot more expansive. It for sure will be more than $1499 msrp. It probably be between $3000 and $5000.

another monkey on the wagon.... - hi Chris!

Chris you speak as if you were having an encounter of the third kind with GS400, yet you contradict yourself in the facts you give.

If you don't recompress the firewire stream, it will be in 1Megapixel frames. We know that from the size of frame the cam captures while recording, which is 1Mega. (I wonder.. how many times I'll have to repeat that...) And it is not "raw transport from the tape" =) (tape cannot transmit ;-), and we know the cam motion video circutry handles 1Megas). of course if you playback a miniDV tape and capture through firewire you'll lose the resolution.

and it will not be recording HD on the miniDV tape. for this to be possible and not to have a crappy image as the JVC-HD (HDV) we need to have MPEG4 compressed stream on the miniDV. I seriously doubt that will happen. (this summer, if ever)

and Chris.. you quick-eye you! 60fps, eh? and I still watch 24fps in the movie theaters. (going to a movie must be killing you =) )

if you compare the prices of DV953 which, if we say that gs400 does not do HD, is not much more different, is being sold for 800$.

again.. why and how will it be possible to have affordable HD? keep small size multi-pixel CCD so you can keep the optics small (which are very expensive). If you go for what Chris assumes an HD cam should have, it will be quite expensive.

besides, Pana showed teaser prototype HD cam for about 3000$ working only on P2 (no tapes) and it is capible of 720p and 1080i.

a cam with only 720p is in the exact price range as GS400 will be.

read and think before you post =)
cheers

I am not going to get into argument. You need to study and read how things work before you post. DV is already compressed 5:1 and that is what is stored on tape. You do not lose anything transfering thru firewire. That is the point of firewire. Lossless transfer of data. By your claims I would lose quality when I transfer HD MPEG2 from PVR to my HD DVHS VCR. For your information I do not. I can make a 10th copy of 10th copy and I still get the same quality as original. This is the same when I copy Mini DV tape to another Mini DV tape. No loss in quality.

Also if you think that 24fps is good enough for fast motion than we have nothing to talk about. Do you know that they use split shutters in movie theaters to create 48fps. This is to eliminate flicker. Next time you go and see a movie just watch how blurry and stuttering any panning shots are.
Why do you think televison runs at 60Hz?. Becasue only then you can capture fast motion smoothly plus the higher the frame them more detail is captured.

Oh, Btw what Panasonic showed at NAB was a mockup. Nothing else. It is not a working camera and they said that the earliest it may be out is 2006. Here is the link to the story http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-p2-flash-pro-04_18_04.htm

Chris, if your frame is 1Mega and you transfer it trought a lossless transfer of data like FireWire as you said... why do you think you will get 720x480 image on the other end?
By the way, I never said anything about digital tape duplication, so I don't know why you are saying this.

Chris this is a consumer/prosumer oriented camcorder, if you want 60fps, large CCDs or 9.2 Megapix SloCam, and a price tag with lots of Zeroes in it, this is not it.

And 24p is good enough for me =)

have you heard of corporate strategy? why do you think the specs of GS400 are not released? why do you think those things are kept secret? why do you think someone will show a cam and give a date of it's release?
If you were their competitor you will be ready with a better product just before their release date and steal the market share under their noses. This is why 2006 is not a real date.
anyway...

we'll see GS400's full specs probably in less than a month.

haha, yeah it'll be dry at first but i'd choke the hats down if it meant i got a palm sized 720p capable cam!!!!

-
 

3CCD x 1,070,000 pixels
(actually it turned out it's possible)

dagnabit, i wrote a big reply to post and it got lost in the net somewhere

oh well i'll try and remember it tomorrow and type it up again dang.

it basically explained why 60Hz was used and that PAl is better than NTSC and that i'm going to get GS400 regardless and in black, the black versions are only availible in Japan, for i know with the GS55 you can get red and blue, and black for the GS200 and i believe a white one in the GS120

oh yeah this is a link explaining interleaving, PAL and NTSC of sorts

http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/progscan/progscan.htm

this is what i can remember i wrote last night

Firstly Chris, no one is doubting your ability to copy Digital Data from one source to another with out any degradation. It is one of the Pro's of digital information. hence also why CD piracy is so viable, they can make millions of copies from one original.

Also from what i have read in numours articles about framerates, 24fps(or 25fps in the case of PAL) is more than sufficiant for the human brain. as there is not much noticable difference above that framerate. The 30fps was as i said b4 was based on the frequency of the power supply in the US(being 110V@60Hz). where as PAL was based on the 240V@50Hz. this was due to the frequency of power in the respective countries was a good way to make for cheap and easy Timing equipment in electronics at the time, b4 sofisticated semiconductors came in to use and pretty much allowed them to make any timings they wanted.

no one is also arguing that to capture high speed action on film you need high speed film and shutters to capture it, but also remember that they do slow it down so that it can be used in a movie whose framerate is 24fps. in my previous post there is a post explaining why NTSC needs progressive scan, and why in PAL it makes a negligable difference.

remember ppls that Video fps will never match the fps of computer games like quake etc. it's just not nessassery.

HD does mean different things in different countries for example in australia the Standard PAL resoultion is 576i (NTSC = 480i) this is known as SD TV over here in Australia. where as if you turn this into a Progressive signal, 576p, then this is considered a HD resolution over here in australia, there for it is possible that the GS400 will be able to record in a HD PAL resolution. also remember that the GS400's released will also be mostly PAL.

and i'm sure that Firewire will be entirely capable of transfering video feeds at HDPAL 576p.

and i'm sure due to the speculated specifications on the CCD Resolutions of the up and coming GS400 i'm sure it may even be able to output HDPAL 720p.

chris i hope i haven't offended you with my banter for all i know i may be entirely wrong. but i hope it lends you pause in future when saying something that may offend others with its lack of research and solid fact. even though you may be right.

back to the GS400 speculation, does anyone know what sort of remote the GS400 is coming out with?? will it have a more advanced remote/interview mic, allowing higher level menu functions???

i hope got most of what i said right anyway, someone please correct me if i'm wrong

here's another dealer:
http://www.dcam.ru/Panasonic-NV-GS400EG-S.html

please note that some of the info may be false.
like the LCD is not 2.5" but 3.5"
and dimentions are probably wrong...

but there's no other place to verify the:
1 Lux
PictBridge

the rest of the specs match.

You've got to keep an eye on ol' Matsushita. The PV-DV852 (NTSC North America) had a 2.5" LCD while the equivalent NV-MX1000 (NTSC Japan) had a 3.5" LCD. Then just to make things interesting the NV-MX8 (PAL) had a 3.0" LCD but were all the same cam.

yeah...
at least the dimetions of the cam are inccorect on that russina dealer... (looks like they are of GS200), and GS400 is larger for sure.

the models so far I found are:
GS400EG
GS400GC and GS400GC-S
GS400A
GS400B
GS400
(most of those were NV- as far as I remember)

and the Jap model will probably be GS400K

some more signs of GS400....
http://www.panasonic.be/servlet/PB/menu/1050385_l3/

it's 12X Zoom ! not 10x
(sorry that was a typo, but I can't edit it out =/ )

ummmm i don't know if anyone has seen this, and i'm assuming most of you have, but holy crap!

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...o-04_18_04.htm

yep... seen it..

actually I hope some of that tech to be in GS400
(for 720 recording)

Tho I think the release date of the cam is totaly overstated to throw off the competition.

George, I just hope you're not too disappointed with the GS400 since its probably not going to have what you're looking for. Will you still buy one if it doesn't have a dirty HD mode?

BTW, what 720p TV are using?

Actually GS400 has all what I'm looking for =)
(from the officialy posted specs)

and HD720 is not something I "need and looking for", but it came as a conclusion of disection of pana's posted specs, policy, and line of producst (existing as well as expected).


and it will be nice to have your memories in 720 no matter the TV you have at the moment.. CRT, LCD, LCoS.. DVL... 1080.. 720 projector.. =)
isn't it what's all about?
...better preserving memories

in this case 1080i will be better, but not available yet as you know... maybe next year ;)

Not sure I follow you.. ??

<<<-- ....a dirty HD mode?... -->>>

well... a dirty HD720.. a dusty HD1080.. =)
it is after all a solution providing a better quality video from the miniDV with 540 lines of horizontal resolution.

so.. yes I'll buy it the first moment I can =) even if it does not have HD720. It will be after all better even from GS100, even without HD720 =)

why would anyone buy anything else?...
-it's better cam than any of line
-it's in English
-it's in NTSC
-it's less than 1500$
I can't ask for anything else up to here...
but if it has HD720 it will be something extra to enjoy =)

That may or may not be the case but hopefully we'll have some more information on the GS400 and whether Japan has an upcoming replacement for the GS100. I don't mind upgrading to a better cam but I value reviews and user comments more than a simple comparison of specs. You can really back yourself into a corner doing that.

I'm still confused what you meant by this. Can you elaborate what you meant and in reference to what?

Since you'll probably find soon enough that GS400 will be replacing GS100 I think it will be a safe bet GS400 will be a better cam...

anyway....1080 better than 720? I guess no argument there..?

or about the comment about next year?

As you know Pana announced this:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-p2-flash-pro-04_18_04.htm

as a possible cam for late 2006 at 3000$. I think the cam will be possible to produce before that date. And frankly I think GS400 may be a party capable of the same technology.
where the showcase mockup was for a HD cam 1080i it's quite possible for GS400 to be capable of HD720

There is an ongoing debate on 1080i vs. 720p and it looks like it will remain until 1080p combines their strengths. 1080i is of course higher resolution (spatial) but its interlaced and doesn't play well with computer graphics (HTPC). 720p is better at displaying fast motion with less blurring due to its higher temporal resolution.

Another interesting fact is that most CRT based 1080i HDTVS (tube and rear projection) cannot display much over 800 lines of the total 1080.

As for how long we'll have to wait for 1080p? There has been talk that it will be for professional use only (archival) with no consumer 1080p devices.

I prefer 720p.


The GS100 does appear to be on the way out judging by the panasonic.jp website.

Really? I didn't know that about the CRT- HDTVs
I have Sony -WEGA HDTV (thats CRT), and the image is amasing. =/
it has the option to make progresive frames from regular TV :)

It's not too big, 34", but weights a ton...

If i were doing pro-sumer work I would go for 1080i whenever it becomes available, and de-interlace it if I have to... ;)

I'll have the optimistic view that those problems with 1080i will be resolved... it's lot like technology stands still.

when i get back from having some drinks, i'll do a post on all the Display devices that can handle 1080p. george, i had a look at sony's latest superfine pitch tv around AUD$6k RRP i liked the picture on the Panasonic better, i saw a lot of digital artifacts on the sony that just should not have been there.

BAD news Canada
 

------------------------
Hello, Thank you for choosing ********. Panasonic is not bringing in the PVGS400 at this time but has available PVGS200 retail $1,299.00 Canadian. A 3 CCD-2.3 Mega Pixel Cam-corder.

The PV-DV953 is discontinued superceded by PVGS200 at a much better price.

Come on down or call me @ ************ it is on display now

Best regards
*****
------------------------

GGRRRRRRRR... stupid Pana-Canada!
STUPID I TELL YOU

I guess we will be buying our cams from US.

Huh? No GS400 for Canada? Figures. I don't think they brought in the EZ1 either, or so I recall. My buy had to buy it in the USA.

Actually, I've learned from experience to never believe what Pana Can and JVC Can tell me over the phone. Nothing. I could cite several examples of incorrect information I had received from them over the years. For example:

Question to JVC Can:
"How big is the CCD on the DV4000?"
Answer from JVC:
"It's 10X"

=)
Frank... give me some credit.. will ya ?

of course this was not response from Pana-Canada :) it's response from one of the "respectful dealers".

the Us dealers had their product list long time ago, and it included GS400 (even tho there were few specs to none).

The fact that the dealer here answered me like this means that they do not have GS400 in the product list, which by itself means it won't be coming soon anyway. And probably they have called Pana-Canada and asked them why they have not included GS400 in the product list, where the respons I guess was "we won't offer GS400 in canada".

I'm trying to press the dealers from Toronto to press Pana-Canada =) thats the only way something may change =/
but I don't think even if there's some effect it will be fast enough to "win" my purchase.. so I'll be buying US, and Pana-US and US dealer will make money out of me. No Canadian. and why? cose... they don't know or don't care to do bsiness.

go figure

ps. my response was more pressing, and telling them that "we will purchase from US if they don't import them (from US)"
I hope they'll press in turn Pana-Canada, since they won't go for importing US goods over the head of Pana-Canada.
"we"- as my company, I hope when they see that it was sent by a director of a company.. {no matter how small :) } will get a bit more attention.

In all fairness a dealer will always try and sell you what he has in stock versus a cam that hasn't been released yet.