BAD Japanese customer reaction about GS400

Patricia Kim · June 29th, 2004, 02:05 PM

Doesn't it make you wonder about the teaser Frank was sent by Pana technical re a possible new Japan-only model? There's certainly room for something between the gs400, say, and the dvx100a, particularly with Panasonic touting using some of the dvx technology in the 400? Could be interesting times...

Tommy Haupfear · June 29th, 2004, 02:09 PM

Isn't the DVC30 in-between the GS400 and DVX100?

Not saying a new cam isn't possible but where would they position it unless its HDV.

Patricia Kim · June 29th, 2004, 02:59 PM

I thought the dvc30 didn't do 24p? And that it was really being marketed heavily toward law enforcement because of the "night vision" mode - I believe someone even remarked in one of the forums that that's where most of the sales have been?

Boyd Ostroff · June 29th, 2004, 04:21 PM

I think you may have seen a post by our old pal Frank over at dv.com where he said he compared the DVC-30 with the PDX-10 at a camera store and was very unimpressed with the build quality of the DVC-30. He also mentioned the law enforcement thing.

I found his comments curious since a few people around here have specifically mentioned how well built the DVC-30 is....

Allan Rejoso · June 29th, 2004, 07:12 PM

C'mon guys, most probably none of those who gave their poll have even seen the GS400 in person. Anyway

Low ratings in terms of size is a no-brainer. This cam is HUGE for the mainstream Jap market and that should be a concern for Pany.

Since the GS400 uses the same type of batt as the GS100, certainly battery life s_cks. Buy an extra battery.

Pricewise, kakaku's starting price is higher than JPY160,000. Who's gonna give that a good rating? But for sure, prices will go down to more reasonable levels once this cam is finally out.

I'm quite surprised with Frank's comment on the DVC30 body. It is made with Magnesium alloy die-cast.

Yow Cheong Hoe · June 29th, 2004, 07:16 PM

The new GS series will certainly be small and cute, Japanese style. They'll be good for tourists and home users. Serious users who wish to do some 'paid' jobs will probably consider else.

I am not saying that the image is not good, but the GS built and features, coupled with smaller batteries and non-ergonomic buttons, well, certainly not for serious shooting.

As for the DVC30, no 24P = not a good cam? For the sensitivity and built (ergonomics and metal frame), I'll say that that's value for money, especially to amateurs who are training for pro shooting. The DVX100 is cool, but pretty costly, too.

Tommy Haupfear · June 29th, 2004, 08:14 PM

Yowch, I've actually seen a few outdoor fishing shows that use compact 3CCD cams. In fact one down in Georgia bought one of my cams and I had one in Florida contact me today about my GS100 or purchasing a GS400.

Not that I'm elevating these little cams above 1/3" 3CCDs (or any cam for that matter) but they do have they place other than birthday parties and trips to the zoo.

Yow Cheong Hoe · June 30th, 2004, 12:50 AM

Tommy,

Surely I know that. :-) I am actually pretty well paid for the videos that I make out of my 1/4" MX350, which is 3-years-ago technology. I just find that it is pretty pointless to say that comsumer cams can be as good as pro cams and the noise is very low or that teh colour reproduction is very close. Panasonic brought 3CCD to the masses, but the compromise is in the quality of the 3CCD. I still believe in Panasonic for the beautiful skin tones and good value-for-money. But to do anything serious, it'll be at least in the range of DVX100, PD170 or XL-1s. And anything really serious will need those monsters that TV stations are using.

By the way, small batteries and digital stabilisers are pretty terrible, not to mention the lack of dedicated buttons for WB, ND, mic gain, video gain, etc.

Back to the topic, reaction by the public is a good indication of where the next generation of video cams will go, be it cheaper and smaller or larger and more costly. It may well split into more division than pro, prosumer and consumer!

Frank Granovski · June 30th, 2004, 02:10 AM

What I said was that the DVC30 looks and feels plastic-like compared with the PDX10. I never said it wasn't good. A large Vancouver dealer told me that all their DVC30 cams have been sold for surveilance purposes so far. Only lawyers and investigators have bought them, and not many have been sold.

Gustavo Godinho · June 30th, 2004, 07:15 AM

"But to do anything serious, it'll be at least in the range of DVX100, PD170 or XL-1s. And anything really serious will need those monsters that TV stations are using."

Hum.... don´t know....

Dogville, Piñero, Personal Velocity, Dancing in the Dark, Jackass, Tape, Everything Put Together, 28 Days and a LOT of other films were shot with PD´s, XL´s and sub-PD´s. Some of those films were big hits and Dogville is a masterpiece.

Frank Granovski · June 30th, 2004, 03:24 PM

One of our moderators just finished shooting part 1 of a 6 part TV mini series. All the cams were XL1's, XL1S's and DVX100/A's. Looked pretty good to me on the monitors. Sorry, Yow. :-))

Gustavo Godinho · June 30th, 2004, 05:16 PM

Hey Frank, is there any trailer of those shots for us to watch?

Bogdan Vaglarov · June 30th, 2004, 06:25 PM

I think the pols on kakaku.com has to be taken with a grain of salt!

I've noticed low grade but well selling stuff often gets very high scores while quality goods tend to have lower scores.
I think that's due to the targeted customers. The second group buyers are more demanding thus often the scores are low.

Recently I bought a heatsink for my PC's CPU which had full marks (from only 6 people though). I didn't like much the performance but it was cheap for what it was supose to do. Later I saw magazine review where this same HS scored almost last.
If I have translated and read carefully the opinions after the kakaku pol I propably wouldn't have bought that HS!

Tommy Haupfear · June 30th, 2004, 07:49 PM

Bogdan, hopefully it wasn't the Thermalright SLK948U copper heatsink. I've been waiting to buy that one.

As for kakau.com, you can't review a movie until you've seen it and I think the same goes for camcorders.

Bogdan Vaglarov · June 30th, 2004, 09:26 PM

Tommy mine is copper heatpipe (Zaward) and 30% cheaper than the leaders - you'll be fine with Thermalright !

What I meant for the kakaku pols/bbs is that it's more represantative of the sales and where the mainstream goes.
There are questions and answers and some people are saying things straight (unusual for Japanese) but it's not a real forum to get the better picture out of a product.

June 29th, 2004, 07:16 PM	#21
Yow Cheong Hoe Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Singapore, Passport: Malaysia Posts: 407	The new GS series will certainly be small and cute, Japanese style. They'll be good for tourists and home users. Serious users who wish to do some 'paid' jobs will probably consider else. I am not saying that the image is not good, but the GS built and features, coupled with smaller batteries and non-ergonomic buttons, well, certainly not for serious shooting. As for the DVC30, no 24P = not a good cam? For the sensitivity and built (ergonomics and metal frame), I'll say that that's value for money, especially to amateurs who are training for pro shooting. The DVX100 is cool, but pretty costly, too. __________________ Cam: Panasonic MX350EN, SOLD my MX8EN Mac: G3 400MHz PowerBook, 256 MB, OS 9 PC: Pentium 4 2800MHz, 512 MB, WindowsXP SW: iMovie, Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere, Ulead Video Studio, various little utilities

June 30th, 2004, 12:50 AM	#23
Yow Cheong Hoe Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Singapore, Passport: Malaysia Posts: 407	Tommy, Surely I know that. :-) I am actually pretty well paid for the videos that I make out of my 1/4" MX350, which is 3-years-ago technology. I just find that it is pretty pointless to say that comsumer cams can be as good as pro cams and the noise is very low or that teh colour reproduction is very close. Panasonic brought 3CCD to the masses, but the compromise is in the quality of the 3CCD. I still believe in Panasonic for the beautiful skin tones and good value-for-money. But to do anything serious, it'll be at least in the range of DVX100, PD170 or XL-1s. And anything really serious will need those monsters that TV stations are using. By the way, small batteries and digital stabilisers are pretty terrible, not to mention the lack of dedicated buttons for WB, ND, mic gain, video gain, etc. Back to the topic, reaction by the public is a good indication of where the next generation of video cams will go, be it cheaper and smaller or larger and more costly. It may well split into more division than pro, prosumer and consumer! __________________ Cam: Panasonic MX350EN, SOLD my MX8EN Mac: G3 400MHz PowerBook, 256 MB, OS 9 PC: Pentium 4 2800MHz, 512 MB, WindowsXP SW: iMovie, Final Cut Pro, Adobe Premiere, Ulead Video Studio, various little utilities

June 30th, 2004, 07:15 AM	#25
Gustavo Godinho Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Belém - Pa - Brazil Posts: 130	"But to do anything serious, it'll be at least in the range of DVX100, PD170 or XL-1s. And anything really serious will need those monsters that TV stations are using." Hum.... don´t know.... Dogville, Piñero, Personal Velocity, Dancing in the Dark, Jackass, Tape, Everything Put Together, 28 Days and a LOT of other films were shot with PD´s, XL´s and sub-PD´s. Some of those films were big hits and Dogville is a masterpiece. __________________ lml

June 30th, 2004, 05:16 PM	#27
Gustavo Godinho Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Belém - Pa - Brazil Posts: 130	Hey Frank, is there any trailer of those shots for us to watch? __________________ lml

June 29th, 2004, 02:05 PM	#16
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Doesn't it make you wonder about the teaser Frank was sent by Pana technical re a possible new Japan-only model? There's certainly room for something between the gs400, say, and the dvx100a, particularly with Panasonic touting using some of the dvx technology in the 400? Could be interesting times...

June 29th, 2004, 02:09 PM	#17
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Isn't the DVC30 in-between the GS400 and DVX100? Not saying a new cam isn't possible but where would they position it unless its HDV.

June 29th, 2004, 02:59 PM	#18
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	I thought the dvc30 didn't do 24p? And that it was really being marketed heavily toward law enforcement because of the "night vision" mode - I believe someone even remarked in one of the forums that that's where most of the sales have been?

June 29th, 2004, 04:21 PM	#19
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	I think you may have seen a post by our old pal Frank over at dv.com where he said he compared the DVC-30 with the PDX-10 at a camera store and was very unimpressed with the build quality of the DVC-30. He also mentioned the law enforcement thing. I found his comments curious since a few people around here have specifically mentioned how well built the DVC-30 is....

June 29th, 2004, 07:12 PM	#20
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	C'mon guys, most probably none of those who gave their poll have even seen the GS400 in person. Anyway Low ratings in terms of size is a no-brainer. This cam is HUGE for the mainstream Jap market and that should be a concern for Pany. Since the GS400 uses the same type of batt as the GS100, certainly battery life s_cks. Buy an extra battery. Pricewise, kakaku's starting price is higher than JPY160,000. Who's gonna give that a good rating? But for sure, prices will go down to more reasonable levels once this cam is finally out. I'm quite surprised with Frank's comment on the DVC30 body. It is made with Magnesium alloy die-cast.

June 29th, 2004, 08:14 PM	#22
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Yowch, I've actually seen a few outdoor fishing shows that use compact 3CCD cams. In fact one down in Georgia bought one of my cams and I had one in Florida contact me today about my GS100 or purchasing a GS400. Not that I'm elevating these little cams above 1/3" 3CCDs (or any cam for that matter) but they do have they place other than birthday parties and trips to the zoo.

June 30th, 2004, 02:10 AM	#24
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	What I said was that the DVC30 looks and feels plastic-like compared with the PDX10. I never said it wasn't good. A large Vancouver dealer told me that all their DVC30 cams have been sold for surveilance purposes so far. Only lawyers and investigators have bought them, and not many have been sold.

June 30th, 2004, 03:24 PM	#26
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	One of our moderators just finished shooting part 1 of a 6 part TV mini series. All the cams were XL1's, XL1S's and DVX100/A's. Looked pretty good to me on the monitors. Sorry, Yow. :-))

June 30th, 2004, 06:25 PM	#28
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	I think the pols on kakaku.com has to be taken with a grain of salt! I've noticed low grade but well selling stuff often gets very high scores while quality goods tend to have lower scores. I think that's due to the targeted customers. The second group buyers are more demanding thus often the scores are low. Recently I bought a heatsink for my PC's CPU which had full marks (from only 6 people though). I didn't like much the performance but it was cheap for what it was supose to do. Later I saw magazine review where this same HS scored almost last. If I have translated and read carefully the opinions after the kakaku pol I propably wouldn't have bought that HS!

June 30th, 2004, 07:49 PM	#29
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Bogdan, hopefully it wasn't the Thermalright SLK948U copper heatsink. I've been waiting to buy that one. As for kakau.com, you can't review a movie until you've seen it and I think the same goes for camcorders.

June 30th, 2004, 09:26 PM	#30
Bogdan Vaglarov Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Yokohama, Japan Posts: 366	Tommy mine is copper heatpipe (Zaward) and 30% cheaper than the leaders - you'll be fine with Thermalright ! What I meant for the kakaku pols/bbs is that it's more represantative of the sales and where the mainstream goes. There are questions and answers and some people are saying things straight (unusual for Japanese) but it's not a real forum to get the better picture out of a product.