dvc30 F-stop readings? at DVinfo.net

Reid Bailey · August 2nd, 2004, 09:31 AM

Okay I did search through the postings and came up with opposing comments.

Does the dvc30 display the actual F-stop either in the eyepiece or on the lcd?

Does one have manual control of the ND filters or are they strictly automatic?

Basically I'm torn between the GL2 and the DVC30. I'm ready to order like right now, but am vexed by relenteless fears of purchasing the wrong camera. The price is so close between the two.

And of course each one seems to have little things the other doesn't...
Uggghhh make it end!

Peter Jefferson · August 2nd, 2004, 10:07 AM

Does the dvc30 display the actual F-stop either in the eyepiece or on the lcd?

((Yes, like any ProSumer Pana Camera, u can set these to "ON"
from the menu))

Does one have manual control of the ND filters or are they strictly automatic?

((NDs are auto im afraid... :( Not happy.. but still.. i havent had an issue with the way the MX500 handles this so im not too fussed..... im sure teh DVC will have better algorithms for this))

Basically I'm torn between the GL2 and the DVC30. I'm ready to order like right now, but am vexed by relenteless fears of purchasing the wrong camera. The price is so close between the two.

((Yeah.. i was thinkin this to.. i want to get rid of my MX500 and replace it with a DVC30 fo a numebr of reasons, either taht or i wait for afew more jobs and go for another DVX.. which would be great.. but... $$$$$$
Im considering the DVC30 due to the chroma configs (dvx style) user settings, wide angled lens with 16x zoom.. and a number of other things like slow shutter 1/25 with frame mode, cinegamma + 12bit DSP... ;)

And of course each one seems to have little things the other doesn't...

I dont think so.. I think the DVC30 in spec alone poos on the Canon, from resolution to colour settings thru to the actual size and shape of it.. i might be biased but i havent regretted any PAna purchase i have made so far :) ))

Uggghhh make it end!
((Go buy a DVX.. LOL hehehe im thinnnnnnnnkin hard too mate. its killin me.. Hahhahaa

Tommy Haupfear · August 2nd, 2004, 10:14 AM

I feel your pain! I cannot figure out what cam to get either..

So far it looks like DVX100A...

I don't believe you have control over the ND filters in the DVC30 but I believe it reads out the f-stops. You can download the PAL DVC30 manual below to verify.

Click here for the PAL manual

Reid Bailey · August 2nd, 2004, 11:52 AM

Thanks for the input and the manual link.

The manual was a big help.

I think the dvc is the way I'll be going , but I'm so damn indecisive it will take me another two weeks to figure it out.
Like this is a big end of the world, life or death decision I'm making here

Mark Williams · August 2nd, 2004, 12:49 PM

Had the DVC30 for 7 weeks now. The ND filter is automatic. My work around is an ND screw on filter when I need it. This works fine. As far as f-stops. Yes the they are displayed in the view finder and LCD screen. However, as you turn the ajustment wheel the f-stop does adjust in finer/smaller increments without displaying the slight change. It just defaults to displaying the larger settings.

Regards,

Mark

Mark Williams · August 2nd, 2004, 01:03 PM

Reid,

I went through the same struggle your are going through. Bottom line is only you can decide. However, let me add that although the DVC 30 has not received a lot of attenion here and elsewhere there is one thing to keep in mind ... For the most part you don't hear anything but praise from those of us who actually own one. Sure there are better cams out there that are more expensive and the DVC's features may not best suit your needs. But in my opinion it is an excellent value for what I want to do.

Regards,

Mark

Reid Bailey · August 2nd, 2004, 01:26 PM

Yeah, the price is virtually the same with the GL2 and I don't think I'd be bummed with either one.
I do really like the structure of 30.

It's like when you're sick and faced with the thousand different cold remedies in the drug store and the druggist tells you they are all about the same.
Just tell me which one to buy and let me get the hell out of here! :-)

All things being equal, deciding between these two cameras is like the biggest problem is my life right now. So I'm not going to sweat it too much...

Joe Amato · August 2nd, 2004, 04:02 PM

As the newest owner of the dvc-30 I would say the gl2 looks like a toy next it it uses interline transer chips 12 bit dsp magnsium body not plastic and the cinne gamma alone is worth it

Dave Croft · August 2nd, 2004, 05:17 PM

The DVC30 needs a bigger fanbase ;) I have had one for just over a month now, and it rocks.

Everything about this cam seems great to me at the moment, it has a solid metal housing, a sweet controllable zoom lens, extra options like frame mode and cinegamma, plus it looks cool.

Don't forget that the DVC30 is pretty new technology compared to the GL2 which is years old now, and a 'GL3' could be out next year? maybe...

I too struggled for ages on which camera to get. It would be my first 3CCD cam (after using average sony consumer cams), and I was torn between the VX2100 and the GL2. Then the DVC30 came along, and it looked like a good option. I bought one and have not been dissapointed.

If you're leaning toward either camera, go for it and start filming some stuff ;)

Tommy Haupfear · August 2nd, 2004, 06:00 PM

I would have a DVC30 in a heartbeat if it had a quality 16:9 mode and/or progressive scan. It seems like an excellent cam for 4:3 movie making!

Joe Garnero · August 3rd, 2004, 06:46 AM

Reid,
I too am in the same dilemma over camera choices. I strated with a $500 budget and found nothing suitable or capable. Then $1000 then $2000. I looked at and tried the PDX10, the GL2 and DVX100. All were capable cameras but the PDX annoyed me with smear, the GL2 annoyed me with the crummy viewfinder (three cameras later still...) so I was waiting for the DVC80. By the time I saw one of those bequties, they announced the DVC30. Well I waited and the DVC80 was killed and I still have yet to see a DVC30.

The whole point is the GLS had a cheap plastic feel to it and the controls were hard for this fat-fingered individual to operate. The viewfinder would change focus depending on camera angle of elevation...

So I vote for the "30" sight unseen. But I won't buy untill I can get it in my hands. If the ergonomics are anything close to the DVX100 then this cam is a hands down winner. That and the "morping" ability to suit the job and budget at hand.

Good luck with you new DVC30. Remember without a camera you shooting nothing...

Tom Hardwick · August 3rd, 2004, 06:48 AM

I have Panasonic's colourful 10 page A4 brochure in front of me and nowhere does it say (or show) that aperture and shutter speed values are displayed on the side/screen or v/finder, so it was interresting to hear you say they are shown, Mark.

How much are you a 'hands on' photographer Reid? If you're happy with the camera choosing when and how much ND filtration to add, then the DVC30 may well suit you. If it's been programmed like the MX500 it'll have multiple NDs that come and go all the time (not telling you when), and the aperture readout (on record as well as on replay later) will be a mathematical approximation only. You won't really have shot that scene at f16, it'll be f4.8 + lots of ND filtration. Often you'll be shooting through the edge of an ND filter - not nice, but ok as it's way out of focus deep within the lens. I bet Herr Leica flinches visibly at the thought. Mark's workaround of adding an ND to the filter threads doesn't in any way turn off the auto ND, it simply delays it.

The Canon is a 'proper' photographic tool in that the aperture set is the aperture you get. You must understand ND filtration and apply it when necessary, to open the iris for differential focus and to limit the degrading effects of diffraction. You never shoot through filter edges and you can believe the displayed aperture readout (to the nearest half stop of course).

You really do need the two cameras side-by side to make a decision. The Panny's big side-screen is lovely but the Canon lens is longer. The Canon's XLR box is an accessory, but at least the mics are divorced from the body and the handle doesn't look so spindly. The GL2 - like the Sony VX2100, is a refinement of a good basic design, and like with cars, the longer they've been in production the better and more fine tuned they get. All manufacturers make mistakes - just look how quickly the DVX100 had to get an A suffix to cure so many silly production mistakes. Let's hope the DVC30 is better in that respect.

tom.

Reid Bailey · August 3rd, 2004, 07:47 AM

Uggghh,
You people are making it worse, not better :-o

Tom, I do know what you mean about the brochures. I downloaded two different ones and no mention of the f-stop display. I did download the manual that Tommy was gracious enough to link to and sure enough it's in there.

In reality I'm not as "hands on" as I'd like to be or even as I fancy myself to be. I'm still very much in the learning process of all this. My eventual goal is to shoot on film and I don't think anything will really replace learning about those things in an actual film environment.

I was suprised that the dvc30 doesn't offer interval recording. All the literature touts the things abilities to be used for surveilance yet no interval recording. I do want to get back into some stop motion stuff. Last time I shot any was with my Canon A1 hi-8, so yes it was a few years ago. And it's probably just as easy to let the tape roll and then just pull out the frames I want in editing. Which is I guess one of the strengths of NLE.

I think I'll end up with the dvc30. I do like the metal body and the customizability (word?) of it. I just finished spending a lot of time with the dvx (out of my price range) and a lot of the menus etc are similar so there'd be less of a learning curve.

I do hear ya about model upgrades. I bet that pana soon comes out with a dvc-30A that deals with the ND problem. Wouldn't it be nice it they came up with a way to retrofit older models? I certainly be willing to pay for an upgrade path, but then they wouldn't sell as many cameras.

Well the decision will be made today. I'll keep everyone posted. I know that you've all put your lives on hold just waiting to see what I do.
Just a bit more patience... :-)

Tom Hardwick · August 3rd, 2004, 08:19 AM

Yes, our lives are on hold. But you make some good points Reid, so I trust your judgement.
Just remember that Ridley Scott can shoot on Low8 and crash edit the footage on two Sannyong VHS machines and still come up with a better wedding film than I can. It's the nut behind the shutter that matters, so know this: your films will be equal shot on the Panasonic or the Canon. Only *you* can make a worthwhile difference.

Panasonic won't remove the auto ND filtration - quite the opposite in fact - it's a creeping phenomina that's going ever upwards in the consumer cams. Look at the Sony PDX10. No lightweight in the game, but with three auto NDs flopping about in there you don't know what the hell aperture it's shooting at.

Forget real intervalometer work on a consumer video cam. Best you can do is speed the timeline later. Or shoot on Super 16 to start with.

Sure you can't stretch to the DVX100A? Thought about selling your kid sister into slavery?

tom.

Tommy Haupfear · August 3rd, 2004, 08:48 AM

Reid, I don't know the exacts but the DVC30 does support frame-by-frame recording but I'm not too sure on the interval.

Maybe this post will be of some help.

Click here

BTW - I'm ready to pull the trigger on the DVX100A! I figure if its too much cam I can just eBay it but otherwise I'll never know.

August 2nd, 2004, 09:31 AM	#1
Reid Bailey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fredericksburg, Va Posts: 220	dvc30 F-stop readings? Okay I did search through the postings and came up with opposing comments. Does the dvc30 display the actual F-stop either in the eyepiece or on the lcd? Does one have manual control of the ND filters or are they strictly automatic? Basically I'm torn between the GL2 and the DVC30. I'm ready to order like right now, but am vexed by relenteless fears of purchasing the wrong camera. The price is so close between the two. And of course each one seems to have little things the other doesn't... Uggghhh make it end!

August 2nd, 2004, 05:17 PM	#9
Dave Croft Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorks UK Posts: 89	The DVC30 needs a bigger fanbase ;) I have had one for just over a month now, and it rocks. Everything about this cam seems great to me at the moment, it has a solid metal housing, a sweet controllable zoom lens, extra options like frame mode and cinegamma, plus it looks cool. Don't forget that the DVC30 is pretty new technology compared to the GL2 which is years old now, and a 'GL3' could be out next year? maybe... I too struggled for ages on which camera to get. It would be my first 3CCD cam (after using average sony consumer cams), and I was torn between the VX2100 and the GL2. Then the DVC30 came along, and it looked like a good option. I bought one and have not been dissapointed. If you're leaning toward either camera, go for it and start filming some stuff ;) __________________ Dave Croft Experimental filmmaker, Nature video, Documentary work and more. Panasonic DVC30, XLR adapter, Shotgun Mic, Canon WD43 Wide angle, PC using Premeire + AE.

August 2nd, 2004, 10:07 AM	#2
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	Does the dvc30 display the actual F-stop either in the eyepiece or on the lcd? ((Yes, like any ProSumer Pana Camera, u can set these to "ON" from the menu)) Does one have manual control of the ND filters or are they strictly automatic? ((NDs are auto im afraid... :( Not happy.. but still.. i havent had an issue with the way the MX500 handles this so im not too fussed..... im sure teh DVC will have better algorithms for this)) Basically I'm torn between the GL2 and the DVC30. I'm ready to order like right now, but am vexed by relenteless fears of purchasing the wrong camera. The price is so close between the two. ((Yeah.. i was thinkin this to.. i want to get rid of my MX500 and replace it with a DVC30 fo a numebr of reasons, either taht or i wait for afew more jobs and go for another DVX.. which would be great.. but... $$$$$$ Im considering the DVC30 due to the chroma configs (dvx style) user settings, wide angled lens with 16x zoom.. and a number of other things like slow shutter 1/25 with frame mode, cinegamma + 12bit DSP... ;) And of course each one seems to have little things the other doesn't... I dont think so.. I think the DVC30 in spec alone poos on the Canon, from resolution to colour settings thru to the actual size and shape of it.. i might be biased but i havent regretted any PAna purchase i have made so far :) )) Uggghhh make it end! ((Go buy a DVX.. LOL hehehe im thinnnnnnnnkin hard too mate. its killin me.. Hahhahaa

August 2nd, 2004, 10:14 AM	#3
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	I feel your pain! I cannot figure out what cam to get either.. So far it looks like DVX100A... I don't believe you have control over the ND filters in the DVC30 but I believe it reads out the f-stops. You can download the PAL DVC30 manual below to verify. Click here for the PAL manual

August 2nd, 2004, 11:52 AM	#4
Reid Bailey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fredericksburg, Va Posts: 220	Thanks for the input and the manual link. The manual was a big help. I think the dvc is the way I'll be going , but I'm so damn indecisive it will take me another two weeks to figure it out. Like this is a big end of the world, life or death decision I'm making here

August 2nd, 2004, 12:49 PM	#5
Mark Williams Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep South, U.S. Posts: 1,526	Had the DVC30 for 7 weeks now. The ND filter is automatic. My work around is an ND screw on filter when I need it. This works fine. As far as f-stops. Yes the they are displayed in the view finder and LCD screen. However, as you turn the ajustment wheel the f-stop does adjust in finer/smaller increments without displaying the slight change. It just defaults to displaying the larger settings. Regards, Mark

August 2nd, 2004, 01:03 PM	#6
Mark Williams Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep South, U.S. Posts: 1,526	Reid, I went through the same struggle your are going through. Bottom line is only you can decide. However, let me add that although the DVC 30 has not received a lot of attenion here and elsewhere there is one thing to keep in mind ... For the most part you don't hear anything but praise from those of us who actually own one. Sure there are better cams out there that are more expensive and the DVC's features may not best suit your needs. But in my opinion it is an excellent value for what I want to do. Regards, Mark

August 2nd, 2004, 01:26 PM	#7
Reid Bailey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fredericksburg, Va Posts: 220	Yeah, the price is virtually the same with the GL2 and I don't think I'd be bummed with either one. I do really like the structure of 30. It's like when you're sick and faced with the thousand different cold remedies in the drug store and the druggist tells you they are all about the same. Just tell me which one to buy and let me get the hell out of here! :-) All things being equal, deciding between these two cameras is like the biggest problem is my life right now. So I'm not going to sweat it too much...

August 2nd, 2004, 04:02 PM	#8
Joe Amato New Boot Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: astoria new york usa Posts: 23	As the newest owner of the dvc-30 I would say the gl2 looks like a toy next it it uses interline transer chips 12 bit dsp magnsium body not plastic and the cinne gamma alone is worth it

August 2nd, 2004, 06:00 PM	#10
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	I would have a DVC30 in a heartbeat if it had a quality 16:9 mode and/or progressive scan. It seems like an excellent cam for 4:3 movie making!

August 3rd, 2004, 06:46 AM	#11
Joe Garnero Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Woodstock, GA Posts: 60	Reid, I too am in the same dilemma over camera choices. I strated with a $500 budget and found nothing suitable or capable. Then $1000 then $2000. I looked at and tried the PDX10, the GL2 and DVX100. All were capable cameras but the PDX annoyed me with smear, the GL2 annoyed me with the crummy viewfinder (three cameras later still...) so I was waiting for the DVC80. By the time I saw one of those bequties, they announced the DVC30. Well I waited and the DVC80 was killed and I still have yet to see a DVC30. The whole point is the GLS had a cheap plastic feel to it and the controls were hard for this fat-fingered individual to operate. The viewfinder would change focus depending on camera angle of elevation... So I vote for the "30" sight unseen. But I won't buy untill I can get it in my hands. If the ergonomics are anything close to the DVX100 then this cam is a hands down winner. That and the "morping" ability to suit the job and budget at hand. Good luck with you new DVC30. Remember without a camera you shooting nothing...

August 3rd, 2004, 06:48 AM	#12
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	I have Panasonic's colourful 10 page A4 brochure in front of me and nowhere does it say (or show) that aperture and shutter speed values are displayed on the side/screen or v/finder, so it was interresting to hear you say they are shown, Mark. How much are you a 'hands on' photographer Reid? If you're happy with the camera choosing when and how much ND filtration to add, then the DVC30 may well suit you. If it's been programmed like the MX500 it'll have multiple NDs that come and go all the time (not telling you when), and the aperture readout (on record as well as on replay later) will be a mathematical approximation only. You won't really have shot that scene at f16, it'll be f4.8 + lots of ND filtration. Often you'll be shooting through the edge of an ND filter - not nice, but ok as it's way out of focus deep within the lens. I bet Herr Leica flinches visibly at the thought. Mark's workaround of adding an ND to the filter threads doesn't in any way turn off the auto ND, it simply delays it. The Canon is a 'proper' photographic tool in that the aperture set is the aperture you get. You must understand ND filtration and apply it when necessary, to open the iris for differential focus and to limit the degrading effects of diffraction. You never shoot through filter edges and you can believe the displayed aperture readout (to the nearest half stop of course). You really do need the two cameras side-by side to make a decision. The Panny's big side-screen is lovely but the Canon lens is longer. The Canon's XLR box is an accessory, but at least the mics are divorced from the body and the handle doesn't look so spindly. The GL2 - like the Sony VX2100, is a refinement of a good basic design, and like with cars, the longer they've been in production the better and more fine tuned they get. All manufacturers make mistakes - just look how quickly the DVX100 had to get an A suffix to cure so many silly production mistakes. Let's hope the DVC30 is better in that respect. tom.

August 3rd, 2004, 07:47 AM	#13
Reid Bailey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fredericksburg, Va Posts: 220	Uggghh, You people are making it worse, not better :-o Tom, I do know what you mean about the brochures. I downloaded two different ones and no mention of the f-stop display. I did download the manual that Tommy was gracious enough to link to and sure enough it's in there. In reality I'm not as "hands on" as I'd like to be or even as I fancy myself to be. I'm still very much in the learning process of all this. My eventual goal is to shoot on film and I don't think anything will really replace learning about those things in an actual film environment. I was suprised that the dvc30 doesn't offer interval recording. All the literature touts the things abilities to be used for surveilance yet no interval recording. I do want to get back into some stop motion stuff. Last time I shot any was with my Canon A1 hi-8, so yes it was a few years ago. And it's probably just as easy to let the tape roll and then just pull out the frames I want in editing. Which is I guess one of the strengths of NLE. I think I'll end up with the dvc30. I do like the metal body and the customizability (word?) of it. I just finished spending a lot of time with the dvx (out of my price range) and a lot of the menus etc are similar so there'd be less of a learning curve. I do hear ya about model upgrades. I bet that pana soon comes out with a dvc-30A that deals with the ND problem. Wouldn't it be nice it they came up with a way to retrofit older models? I certainly be willing to pay for an upgrade path, but then they wouldn't sell as many cameras. Well the decision will be made today. I'll keep everyone posted. I know that you've all put your lives on hold just waiting to see what I do. Just a bit more patience... :-)

August 3rd, 2004, 08:19 AM	#14
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Yes, our lives are on hold. But you make some good points Reid, so I trust your judgement. Just remember that Ridley Scott can shoot on Low8 and crash edit the footage on two Sannyong VHS machines and still come up with a better wedding film than I can. It's the nut behind the shutter that matters, so know this: your films will be equal shot on the Panasonic or the Canon. Only you can make a worthwhile difference. Panasonic won't remove the auto ND filtration - quite the opposite in fact - it's a creeping phenomina that's going ever upwards in the consumer cams. Look at the Sony PDX10. No lightweight in the game, but with three auto NDs flopping about in there you don't know what the hell aperture it's shooting at. Forget real intervalometer work on a consumer video cam. Best you can do is speed the timeline later. Or shoot on Super 16 to start with. Sure you can't stretch to the DVX100A? Thought about selling your kid sister into slavery? tom.

August 3rd, 2004, 08:48 AM	#15
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	Reid, I don't know the exacts but the DVC30 does support frame-by-frame recording but I'm not too sure on the interval. Maybe this post will be of some help. Click here BTW - I'm ready to pull the trigger on the DVX100A! I figure if its too much cam I can just eBay it but otherwise I'll never know.