GS400 Video Noise at DVinfo.net

Tommy Jordan · August 5th, 2004, 01:46 AM

Based on the videos Kaku Ito has shot with his NTSC GS400 and what my PAL GS400 has shown me so far, to my eyes there is a high level of video noise presented in all GS400 videos. It is there under all lighting conditions, not just low light shots. It looks like as if the gain is turned on all the time even under bright sunlight. Is it just me being too fussy?

BTW, Ifve tried all sorts of different settings in the cam, viewing in both TV & LCD, software noise reduction etc without apparent success. I guess this is what a consumer DV should look like ???

Frank Granovski · August 5th, 2004, 05:00 AM

How do you "see" the noise? Have you tried to shoot in auto while the cam is mounted on a tripod and under good lighting? How is it then? I never noticed noise with my MX300 nor with a MX5000 except in extremely poor lighting. Hope that helps. :-))

Tommy Jordan · August 5th, 2004, 05:23 AM

Frank,

It will have to be my eyes are too sensitive to those millions of little dots flashing/flicking all over the place in ALL GS400 videos posted here thus far if you can't "see" any. It may also due to my lack of knowledge of how a video should look like. As a reference point, I don't see any "noise" when I watch DVDs. In the past I always thought the "noise" appeared in the video clips posted in the net, not just limited to GS400, is due to heavy compression etc. My view has since changed after I bought my GS400 as it produces the same "noise" straight out of it.
Back to your question, yes as I mentioned in my first post I have tried many different settings under different conditions (light, temperatures, angles, objects, filter etc)

Tommy Haupfear · August 5th, 2004, 05:57 AM

What type of TV(s) are you viewing your footage on?

If you're viewing on a high definition fixed pixel display (LCD, DLP, LCoS) then you might be experiencing upconversion artifacts. You can't beat a properly calibrated CRT (tube) for viewing NTSC and PAL cam footage.

Noise can be tolerated more by some and less by others (just ask any teenager with subwoofers in the trunk).

Do you have any other cams you can demo in your local area? It might be worth making a comparison tape with the GS400 and some larger CCDs cams.

Tommy Jordan · August 5th, 2004, 08:50 AM

TVs tried so far: Sony Vega 34" (tube), Sony SDM X72 LCD, Panasonic LCD TV (current model in Hong Kong panasonic showroon).

I don't have access to a bigger CCD cam right now so I don't know the difference as yet but I will be surprised if DVX100a looks like this noisy.

Regarding one's tolerence on video noise I agree with you, as what I already mentioned in my previous posts, that it is very much depends on what you have been watching and what you are expecting from a new DV cam.

Anyway, I don't think there is anything wrong with my DV cam ( confirmed by comparing with another GS400 in a Pani shop) or the setups or TVs etc. Then again I could be wrong as I am bit disappointed with the purchase and am quite confused right now as none of you can "see" or mention anything about the "noise" in Kaku's videos.

I guess my next DV cam will have to be HD or something...

Tommy Haupfear · August 5th, 2004, 09:19 AM

Quote:

I could be wrong as I am bit disappointed with the purchase and am quite confused right now as none of you can "see" or mention anything about the "noise" in Kaku's videos.

I have yet to sample any GS400 clips for more than a few seconds and this sounds like a good time to view some of Kaku's GS400 clips.

Quote:

I don't have access to a bigger CCD cam right now so I don't know the difference as yet but I will be surprised if DVX100a looks like this noisy.

My new DVX100A arrives tomorrow and I'll try and share some clips for comparison.

Joe Carney · August 5th, 2004, 10:36 AM

what you may be seeing is the lower contrast of dv source vs film source when shown in a DVD. It can appear noisier, with certain colors not as natural or saturated as film based material. Unfortunately, video, no matter how much you try, will never quite look like film. As far as quality goes, it seems the gs400 is exceptional for the price.

I'm especially sensitive to the screen door effect when movies are projected digitally. Many don't see it.

Boyd Ostroff · August 5th, 2004, 10:56 AM

From my experience, if you're watching DV on a consumer TV, especially an LCD screen, the noise will be much less noticeable if you turn down the sharpness on the TV (using its menus). The sharpness control enhances the edges of contrasting objects and tends to accentuate any noise. You might also want to try a lower sharpness setting on your camera.

August 5th, 2004, 01:46 AM	#1
Tommy Jordan Tourist Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 3	GS400 Video Noise Based on the videos Kaku Ito has shot with his NTSC GS400 and what my PAL GS400 has shown me so far, to my eyes there is a high level of video noise presented in all GS400 videos. It is there under all lighting conditions, not just low light shots. It looks like as if the gain is turned on all the time even under bright sunlight. Is it just me being too fussy? BTW, Ifve tried all sorts of different settings in the cam, viewing in both TV & LCD, software noise reduction etc without apparent success. I guess this is what a consumer DV should look like ???

August 5th, 2004, 05:00 AM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	How do you "see" the noise? Have you tried to shoot in auto while the cam is mounted on a tripod and under good lighting? How is it then? I never noticed noise with my MX300 nor with a MX5000 except in extremely poor lighting. Hope that helps. :-))

August 5th, 2004, 05:23 AM	#3
Tommy Jordan Tourist Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 3	Frank, It will have to be my eyes are too sensitive to those millions of little dots flashing/flicking all over the place in ALL GS400 videos posted here thus far if you can't "see" any. It may also due to my lack of knowledge of how a video should look like. As a reference point, I don't see any "noise" when I watch DVDs. In the past I always thought the "noise" appeared in the video clips posted in the net, not just limited to GS400, is due to heavy compression etc. My view has since changed after I bought my GS400 as it produces the same "noise" straight out of it. Back to your question, yes as I mentioned in my first post I have tried many different settings under different conditions (light, temperatures, angles, objects, filter etc)

August 5th, 2004, 05:57 AM	#4
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	What type of TV(s) are you viewing your footage on? If you're viewing on a high definition fixed pixel display (LCD, DLP, LCoS) then you might be experiencing upconversion artifacts. You can't beat a properly calibrated CRT (tube) for viewing NTSC and PAL cam footage. Noise can be tolerated more by some and less by others (just ask any teenager with subwoofers in the trunk). Do you have any other cams you can demo in your local area? It might be worth making a comparison tape with the GS400 and some larger CCDs cams.

August 5th, 2004, 08:50 AM	#5
Tommy Jordan Tourist Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Australia Posts: 3	TVs tried so far: Sony Vega 34" (tube), Sony SDM X72 LCD, Panasonic LCD TV (current model in Hong Kong panasonic showroon). I don't have access to a bigger CCD cam right now so I don't know the difference as yet but I will be surprised if DVX100a looks like this noisy. Regarding one's tolerence on video noise I agree with you, as what I already mentioned in my previous posts, that it is very much depends on what you have been watching and what you are expecting from a new DV cam. Anyway, I don't think there is anything wrong with my DV cam ( confirmed by comparing with another GS400 in a Pani shop) or the setups or TVs etc. Then again I could be wrong as I am bit disappointed with the purchase and am quite confused right now as none of you can "see" or mention anything about the "noise" in Kaku's videos. I guess my next DV cam will have to be HD or something...

August 5th, 2004, 10:36 AM	#7
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	what you may be seeing is the lower contrast of dv source vs film source when shown in a DVD. It can appear noisier, with certain colors not as natural or saturated as film based material. Unfortunately, video, no matter how much you try, will never quite look like film. As far as quality goes, it seems the gs400 is exceptional for the price. I'm especially sensitive to the screen door effect when movies are projected digitally. Many don't see it.

August 5th, 2004, 10:56 AM	#8
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	From my experience, if you're watching DV on a consumer TV, especially an LCD screen, the noise will be much less noticeable if you turn down the sharpness on the TV (using its menus). The sharpness control enhances the edges of contrasting objects and tends to accentuate any noise. You might also want to try a lower sharpness setting on your camera.