more pana PAL firmware glitches!

Frank Granovski · February 19th, 2003, 04:49 PM

Did you ever get rid of your TRV900? I recall all the problems you had with it.

Here's some info about tapes:

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Frank Granovski · February 19th, 2003, 05:18 PM

MAYBE SOMEONE CAN HELP THIS FELLOW FROM THE NETHERLANDS?

Hi Frank,

I'm eric (we wrote at dv.com) and want to improve my stabilizer of my mx300 (of course). Sometimes I do have a a F02 error, kind of freezing camera and contacted Panasonic Netherlands for that problem, that seems to be a software problem, so no problem except my camera is gone for 3 weeks.

I called Panasonic Netherlands this morning to have both jobs done: the error and the improvement of the stabilizer. This guy on the phone new about "the stories on the Internet, and about this guy in Australia". He said: "we don't call it firmware, it doesn't exist". But when I asked him if the "software upgrade 1.6" does exist, he refused to give an answer. He said to send the camera and describe the problem and it will be fixed. Well, I asked him if he will upgrade to 1.6 he refused to answer.

So, my camera is gone for 3 weeks and I don't know what they are going do. What's going on? is it illegal? Why do I get this weird answers? If you have some experience with this, please let me know.

All the best, Eric

My response:

Dear Eric,

Do post your concerns on the MX forum at: www.dvinfo.net. Also, I have something about the firmware version 1.6 on my MX page: http://www.dvfreak.com/pana_mx5.htm

Here is a little info from Panasonic for the version 1.5 upgrade:

The MX300A when connected via Firewire as "player" to other Firewire devices may intermittently glitch in the data stream. The block noise will be random in either 1 x field or 1 x frame. When block noise appears it can be seen on the cameras viewer whilst playing and recording Computer or other camera simultaneously. Remedy: EEPROM data must be updated to version 1.50

Software revision is for PAL (NV-MX300). Software changes can only be done by Panasonic or Panasonic Dealers who process TATSUJIN alignment tools.

Perhaps contact StuartC@panasonic.com.au for a contact in The Netherlands?

I think that this guy from Panasonic Netherlands is either not wanting to help you, he doesn't know how, or he's simply a fool. Demand that they upgrade your cam's EEPROM data to version 1.6. Or take them to court and/or start posting in the MX forum about your problems with Panasonic.

Sincerely,
Frank

Steven Khong · February 19th, 2003, 07:54 PM

Gosh, poor Eric! I feel for him!

It can't be illegal. I sent my cam to the official Panasonic Service Center in Malaysia, asked for revision 1.5. After about 3 months, finally got a reply from Panasonic Japan, they upgraded it, BONUS, they gave me the latest, revision 1.6. IT REALLY DOES FIX THE DV OUT GLITCHES & ALSO IMPROVES THE OIS PAST 6X. REALLY.

I don't think Panasonic Malaysia ever contacted Stuart @ Panasonic Australia to check up on the firmware upgrade. They can't "cross divisions", they've got to get their orders from the "top of the tree" / head honcho, and that's Panasonic Japan. The orders as well as the software to do the firmware upgrade HAS TO COME from Panasonic Japan. Sounds like the message is getting stuck in between somewhere. Japanese are very methodical & stick by the given rules, so you've got to have "bereucratic smarts" (sp?) to know how to play by their game, to get what you want. Proper channels, proper procedures, produces results.

Anyways, Pana Japan should reply faster now to Pana Netherlands, since they've obviously been pestered by us MX300 owners all over the world demanding the upgrade, and all pretty recently too.

Maybe Pana Netherlands doesn't have the hardware equipment which hooks via PC RS-232 port to the MX300 to do the upgrade.

Sounds like the Netherlands guy is non committal. I do that too at work, when I'm not really sure if I can really fix someone's hardware equipment . :) Is the Netherlands Pana guy an OFFICIAL Panasonic Service Center that can repair on site, or just a go-between & they send the set somewhere else?

Too bad if you're the first one to "educate" your local Pana Service Center about this upgrade, like I was. The second guy to request for the upgrade will get it done easier since that Pana center knows about it. But I think procedually, you need to prove that your cam has the problem, but that's easy enough to challenge them to hook it up to another DV cam.

It doesn't help when the MX300 is now considered obsolete, the the support / response time isn't that great or critical. :( :(

I hope Stuart can help. Maybe we can get somebody's contact in Pana Japan & do a petition? I mean they can't do this runaround thing to us loyal Pana cam users... 8O 8O The least they can do is to send a proper "technical update bulletin" to all their Service Centers. I will *gladly* sign the petition & even send my personal testimony. Just that I don't know where to send it to!

Finally, the magic words to use in the service request form are:

DV OUT Glitches, please upgrade EEPROM to revision 1.6".

******
Asking for "OIS / stabilizer improvement" is NOT what you should ask for.
******
'Cos Panasonic doesn't officially know or acknowledge that the 1.6 firmware fixes the OIS. Frank asked what is included in the 1.6 upgrade & Pana just have it listed as "improves performance," and overcomes "a problem with capture to PC. The upgrade addresses an issue with Motion DVSTUDIO editing software."
So, nothing mentioned about the OIS improvement, but it's there. Really!

Andrew Hogan · February 19th, 2003, 08:24 PM

I've just been checking out the actual tape that I'd captured to my Mac and had the Video Blocks and bands and pic freeze for about 4 frames and Audio drop out. And it mustn't be the firewire firmware as the glitch can be seen when playing the tape thru the MX300 and out of its AV socket into a TV.
So maybe the firmware ver 1.5 did fix the firewire problem, but not the camera problem.

Frank Granovski · February 19th, 2003, 08:37 PM

Eric, this fellow lives in The Netherlands and owns a MX300. I believe he had the firmware upgraded to version 1.5. Perhaps e-mail him to find out who his Panasonic contact is. His name is Mark:

mail@markonthe.net

Re: "had the video blocks and bands and pic freeze for about 4 frames and Audio drop out."

I still think this is a result of dirty heads or a head problem. But I could be wrong.

Steven Khong · February 19th, 2003, 08:50 PM

Hi, Andrew.

I agree with Frank. Sounds like a head or tape problem. Most likely head problem since you've getting this on multiple tapes, right?. Tapes that have that 30 seconds of Color Bars in the beginning to sweep away stray dirt? Just checking.

Have you run many tapes already through that cam? Maybe the head is worn out already?

Remember I said the firmware fixable glitch lasts 2 or 3 frames, and in each of those 2 to 3 frames there is a "displacement of video squares"? I want to add that the "displacement of video squares" are in DIFFERENT places for EACH of those 2 to 3 frames. And those "displaced video squares" are NOT BLACK, they actually contain valid picture data.

If you see "picture freezes" for a few frames (the picture in the frames don't change at all - the whole frame is repeated x times) then it's problems reading the tape - error correction has failed.

Graham Baker · February 20th, 2003, 04:46 AM

Just to add to Steven's glitch description - the displaced blocks are actually repeated blocks but in the wrong place, they seem to be 'filling in' for loss of data by using a previous piece of data.
If you have an NLE system it's quite easy to go to the actual two or three frames where the glitch is and see that there will be some 'super-blocks' (quite large rectangles of picture, not just a few random pixels) that have been repeated in parts of the frame in places where they shouldn't be...

(Can we post jpg's here? I have some good examples)

BTW, I hope this doesn't confuse the issue but it *is* possible to see 'the glitch' on a TV if you happen to have it connected to the MX300 whilst it is playing via firewire to another camcorder.

So in Andrews' case it *could* be 'the glitch' but it could also be a tape problem. If the glitch is exactly repeatable each time you play it back then it's *not* the 'firewire glitch', it's a tape drop out or a head cleaning issue...

Frank Granovski · February 20th, 2003, 06:13 AM

You can send me 1 or 2 low res pics, and I'll upload them to one of my websites (with links). I think I have some room at http://www.8palm.com - I have to start updating http://www.dvfreak.com and make some room there for MX6000 info, along with some of the new stuff---that should be out soon. I haven't seen anything good, though, in way of new cams.

My e-mail is: granit@imag.net

Eric Steensma · February 21st, 2003, 04:26 AM

Thanks a lot guys,

I mailed mark, also a mx300 owner in the netherlands, and he said that pana netherlands f_cked up his camera twice, great. maybe send it to dueseldorf, germany, where volkert had his camera done.

Frank Granovski · February 21st, 2003, 05:29 AM

Perhaps you could post Panasonic's address, phone number and a contact when you find out---from Dueseldorf, Germany. This would help other members who are in a similar situation. Thanks for this info! Good luck, and let us know what happens.

Ariel Hershler · March 3rd, 2003, 01:39 AM

It was about time I registered for this community, and acknowledged Frank Granovski's kind help in diagnosing my MX300 glitch problem, and providing Stuart Cooper's contact info. Thank you Frank!

Also, I read through all the threads about this glitching problem with the MX300, and all this information was really helpful. Thank you all!

I am a MX300 owner from the Netherlands currently living in Israel. There are no Panasonic service centers in Israel capable of doing the firmware upgrade. When I first contacted the Panasonic service center in the Netherlands, they wrote back to me saying that they did not know about the firmware upgrade. But after I sent them the Panasonic technical bulletin (techbull.pdf, see http://www.dvfreak.com/techbull.pdf, need Adobe Acrobat Reader to read this document), they acknowledged that they would be able to perform this firmware upgrade. They did not say whether it would be 1.5 or 1.6, though.

I posted the address of the Panasonic service center in the Netherlands to the "List of Service Centers who can do Firmware Upgrade 1.6" thread (see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=7265).

I haven't actually sent my camera to them yet, as I am worried about sending such an expensive camera off. I may wait with the upgrade until I am able to take the camera somewhere myself (I travel quite extensively for work). So please do not take this as an endorsement of this service center's quality of workmanship.

If anyone has actually had the firmware upgrade done at Panasonic Nederland, I'd be interested to know if they did it properly.

Frank Granovski · March 3rd, 2003, 05:43 AM

Welcome Ariel! Nice to see that you finally made it here. The members here are very friendly and helpful, however, I wished more MX owners would join us to make this a larger pool of experience. Thank you for you're other post.

I suggest you contact Pana before sending them your cam. Also, if you do send it, get in insured. You never know what could happen.

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February 19th, 2003, 04:49 PM	#31
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Did you ever get rid of your TRV900? I recall all the problems you had with it. Here's some info about tapes: http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

February 19th, 2003, 05:18 PM	#32
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	MAYBE SOMEONE CAN HELP THIS FELLOW FROM THE NETHERLANDS? Hi Frank, I'm eric (we wrote at dv.com) and want to improve my stabilizer of my mx300 (of course). Sometimes I do have a a F02 error, kind of freezing camera and contacted Panasonic Netherlands for that problem, that seems to be a software problem, so no problem except my camera is gone for 3 weeks. I called Panasonic Netherlands this morning to have both jobs done: the error and the improvement of the stabilizer. This guy on the phone new about "the stories on the Internet, and about this guy in Australia". He said: "we don't call it firmware, it doesn't exist". But when I asked him if the "software upgrade 1.6" does exist, he refused to give an answer. He said to send the camera and describe the problem and it will be fixed. Well, I asked him if he will upgrade to 1.6 he refused to answer. So, my camera is gone for 3 weeks and I don't know what they are going do. What's going on? is it illegal? Why do I get this weird answers? If you have some experience with this, please let me know. All the best, Eric My response: Dear Eric, Do post your concerns on the MX forum at: www.dvinfo.net. Also, I have something about the firmware version 1.6 on my MX page: http://www.dvfreak.com/pana_mx5.htm Here is a little info from Panasonic for the version 1.5 upgrade: The MX300A when connected via Firewire as "player" to other Firewire devices may intermittently glitch in the data stream. The block noise will be random in either 1 x field or 1 x frame. When block noise appears it can be seen on the cameras viewer whilst playing and recording Computer or other camera simultaneously. Remedy: EEPROM data must be updated to version 1.50 Software revision is for PAL (NV-MX300). Software changes can only be done by Panasonic or Panasonic Dealers who process TATSUJIN alignment tools. Perhaps contact StuartC@panasonic.com.au for a contact in The Netherlands? I think that this guy from Panasonic Netherlands is either not wanting to help you, he doesn't know how, or he's simply a fool. Demand that they upgrade your cam's EEPROM data to version 1.6. Or take them to court and/or start posting in the MX forum about your problems with Panasonic. Sincerely, Frank

February 19th, 2003, 07:54 PM	#33
Steven Khong Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia Posts: 112	Gosh, poor Eric! I feel for him! It can't be illegal. I sent my cam to the official Panasonic Service Center in Malaysia, asked for revision 1.5. After about 3 months, finally got a reply from Panasonic Japan, they upgraded it, BONUS, they gave me the latest, revision 1.6. IT REALLY DOES FIX THE DV OUT GLITCHES & ALSO IMPROVES THE OIS PAST 6X. REALLY. I don't think Panasonic Malaysia ever contacted Stuart @ Panasonic Australia to check up on the firmware upgrade. They can't "cross divisions", they've got to get their orders from the "top of the tree" / head honcho, and that's Panasonic Japan. The orders as well as the software to do the firmware upgrade HAS TO COME from Panasonic Japan. Sounds like the message is getting stuck in between somewhere. Japanese are very methodical & stick by the given rules, so you've got to have "bereucratic smarts" (sp?) to know how to play by their game, to get what you want. Proper channels, proper procedures, produces results. Anyways, Pana Japan should reply faster now to Pana Netherlands, since they've obviously been pestered by us MX300 owners all over the world demanding the upgrade, and all pretty recently too. Maybe Pana Netherlands doesn't have the hardware equipment which hooks via PC RS-232 port to the MX300 to do the upgrade. Sounds like the Netherlands guy is non committal. I do that too at work, when I'm not really sure if I can really fix someone's hardware equipment . :) Is the Netherlands Pana guy an OFFICIAL Panasonic Service Center that can repair on site, or just a go-between & they send the set somewhere else? Too bad if you're the first one to "educate" your local Pana Service Center about this upgrade, like I was. The second guy to request for the upgrade will get it done easier since that Pana center knows about it. But I think procedually, you need to prove that your cam has the problem, but that's easy enough to challenge them to hook it up to another DV cam. It doesn't help when the MX300 is now considered obsolete, the the support / response time isn't that great or critical. :( :( I hope Stuart can help. Maybe we can get somebody's contact in Pana Japan & do a petition? I mean they can't do this runaround thing to us loyal Pana cam users... 8O 8O The least they can do is to send a proper "technical update bulletin" to all their Service Centers. I will gladly sign the petition & even send my personal testimony. Just that I don't know where to send it to! Finally, the magic words to use in the service request form are: DV OUT Glitches, please upgrade EEPROM to revision 1.6". **** Asking for "OIS / stabilizer improvement" is NOT what you should ask for. **** 'Cos Panasonic doesn't officially know or acknowledge that the 1.6 firmware fixes the OIS. Frank asked what is included in the 1.6 upgrade & Pana just have it listed as "improves performance," and overcomes "a problem with capture to PC. The upgrade addresses an issue with Motion DVSTUDIO editing software." So, nothing mentioned about the OIS improvement, but it's there. Really!

February 19th, 2003, 08:24 PM	#34
Andrew Hogan Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Canberra AUSTRALIA Posts: 169	I've just been checking out the actual tape that I'd captured to my Mac and had the Video Blocks and bands and pic freeze for about 4 frames and Audio drop out. And it mustn't be the firewire firmware as the glitch can be seen when playing the tape thru the MX300 and out of its AV socket into a TV. So maybe the firmware ver 1.5 did fix the firewire problem, but not the camera problem.

February 19th, 2003, 08:37 PM	#35
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Eric, this fellow lives in The Netherlands and owns a MX300. I believe he had the firmware upgraded to version 1.5. Perhaps e-mail him to find out who his Panasonic contact is. His name is Mark: mail@markonthe.net Re: "had the video blocks and bands and pic freeze for about 4 frames and Audio drop out." I still think this is a result of dirty heads or a head problem. But I could be wrong.

February 19th, 2003, 08:50 PM	#36
Steven Khong Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia Posts: 112	Hi, Andrew. I agree with Frank. Sounds like a head or tape problem. Most likely head problem since you've getting this on multiple tapes, right?. Tapes that have that 30 seconds of Color Bars in the beginning to sweep away stray dirt? Just checking. Have you run many tapes already through that cam? Maybe the head is worn out already? Remember I said the firmware fixable glitch lasts 2 or 3 frames, and in each of those 2 to 3 frames there is a "displacement of video squares"? I want to add that the "displacement of video squares" are in DIFFERENT places for EACH of those 2 to 3 frames. And those "displaced video squares" are NOT BLACK, they actually contain valid picture data. If you see "picture freezes" for a few frames (the picture in the frames don't change at all - the whole frame is repeated x times) then it's problems reading the tape - error correction has failed.

February 20th, 2003, 04:46 AM	#37
Graham Baker Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 43	Just to add to Steven's glitch description - the displaced blocks are actually repeated blocks but in the wrong place, they seem to be 'filling in' for loss of data by using a previous piece of data. If you have an NLE system it's quite easy to go to the actual two or three frames where the glitch is and see that there will be some 'super-blocks' (quite large rectangles of picture, not just a few random pixels) that have been repeated in parts of the frame in places where they shouldn't be... (Can we post jpg's here? I have some good examples) BTW, I hope this doesn't confuse the issue but it is possible to see 'the glitch' on a TV if you happen to have it connected to the MX300 whilst it is playing via firewire to another camcorder. So in Andrews' case it could be 'the glitch' but it could also be a tape problem. If the glitch is exactly repeatable each time you play it back then it's not the 'firewire glitch', it's a tape drop out or a head cleaning issue...

February 20th, 2003, 06:13 AM	#38
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	You can send me 1 or 2 low res pics, and I'll upload them to one of my websites (with links). I think I have some room at http://www.8palm.com - I have to start updating http://www.dvfreak.com and make some room there for MX6000 info, along with some of the new stuff---that should be out soon. I haven't seen anything good, though, in way of new cams. My e-mail is: granit@imag.net

February 21st, 2003, 04:26 AM	#39
Eric Steensma Tourist Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: amsterdam, The Netherlands Posts: 2	Thanks a lot guys, I mailed mark, also a mx300 owner in the netherlands, and he said that pana netherlands f_cked up his camera twice, great. maybe send it to dueseldorf, germany, where volkert had his camera done.

February 21st, 2003, 05:29 AM	#40
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Perhaps you could post Panasonic's address, phone number and a contact when you find out---from Dueseldorf, Germany. This would help other members who are in a similar situation. Thanks for this info! Good luck, and let us know what happens.

March 3rd, 2003, 01:39 AM	#41
Ariel Hershler New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Efrat, Israel Posts: 19	It was about time I registered for this community, and acknowledged Frank Granovski's kind help in diagnosing my MX300 glitch problem, and providing Stuart Cooper's contact info. Thank you Frank! Also, I read through all the threads about this glitching problem with the MX300, and all this information was really helpful. Thank you all! I am a MX300 owner from the Netherlands currently living in Israel. There are no Panasonic service centers in Israel capable of doing the firmware upgrade. When I first contacted the Panasonic service center in the Netherlands, they wrote back to me saying that they did not know about the firmware upgrade. But after I sent them the Panasonic technical bulletin (techbull.pdf, see http://www.dvfreak.com/techbull.pdf, need Adobe Acrobat Reader to read this document), they acknowledged that they would be able to perform this firmware upgrade. They did not say whether it would be 1.5 or 1.6, though. I posted the address of the Panasonic service center in the Netherlands to the "List of Service Centers who can do Firmware Upgrade 1.6" thread (see http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=7265). I haven't actually sent my camera to them yet, as I am worried about sending such an expensive camera off. I may wait with the upgrade until I am able to take the camera somewhere myself (I travel quite extensively for work). So please do not take this as an endorsement of this service center's quality of workmanship. If anyone has actually had the firmware upgrade done at Panasonic Nederland, I'd be interested to know if they did it properly.

March 3rd, 2003, 05:43 AM	#42
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Welcome Ariel! Nice to see that you finally made it here. The members here are very friendly and helpful, however, I wished more MX owners would join us to make this a larger pool of experience. Thank you for you're other post. I suggest you contact Pana before sending them your cam. Also, if you do send it, get in insured. You never know what could happen.