24p Mini DV on the way!

[Charles Papert]

Just returned from NAB, saw the Panasonic 24p Mini-DV...well, saw the non-functioning mockup, anyway. Definitely a disappointment not to see what kind of pictures it could make.

As far as the questions posted here--yes, it does incorporate 3:2 pulldown circuitry. The explanation I was given was that it shoots and records native 60p, then flags frames to be dropped/repeated if set at 24p to trigger the 3:2 processing. Thus it can be viewed and fed into an editing system etc. in a normal fashion.

The lens does incorporate true manual zoom and focus, no electronic linkage like on the stock XL1 lens. The iris control is just aft of the lens and uses a rotary dial with f-stops appearing in the eyepiece, similar to the XL1 (that's actually conjecture, the viewfinder was non-functional). I suggested to the product manager that it should have gearing cut into the lens rings to support follow focus, external zoom controllers etc. but he was indifferent ("let them buy the high end cameras if they want that!"), as if that would be actually hard to do...not! The chips are 4:3, the front element is 72mm which will require new anamorphic adaptors, wide angle adaptors etc...

Basically, it feels like a bit of a crap shoot. Outside of the feature set listed on that press release, there wasn't too much more to learn about the camera by handling the mockup. We'll have to wait a few more months to see what kind of picture it delivers.

[Joe Redifer]

Thanks for the report steadihiccup! :) It's amazing the amount of hype they've been able to build up with just a wooden mock-up. Well, all eyes are on them now and if the picture quality doesn't succeed then everybody is going to be REALLY disappointed and I hope the press lets 'em have it. It had better live up!

[Bill Ravens]

It's simply astonishing how some OEM's consistently just miss the mark. Panasonic and JVC come instantly to mind. With a few tweaks, some of their CONsumer stuff would classify as PROsumer. Oh well, like the sales rep said....if they want pro, let them eat pro prices.

[Nathan Gifford]

From the litterature (no misspelling) Panasonic seems to suggest that it would incorporate wide angle into the lens. I guess I was reading too much into that.

It is nice to know that it is using 72mm lens. Maybe now that there are two cams using this size we will be able to get an amorphic lens for the XK-1!

Nathan Gifford

[Robert Knecht Schmidt]

"As far as the questions posted here--yes, it does incorporate 3:2 pulldown circuitry. The explanation I was given was that it shoots and records native 60p, then flags frames to be dropped/repeated if set at 24p to trigger the 3:2 processing."

You're kidding. If this is correct, this is the bass-ackwards way of going about it, because then it's never really truly shooting 24P (or 23.98P or whatever the exact number the CineAlta shoots at is). 60 fields/s -> 24 frames/s is NOT a 3:2 pulldown process; it's 24 frames/s -> 60 fields/s that requires 3:2 pulldown. So if the explanation you're giving is correct, the Panasonic actually performs an inverse 3:2 conversion, which is just plain ridiculous, because then not every frame in the 24P version would be a still frame.

The only right way to do this is to record 24P and do a hardware-implemented 3:2 pulldown resulting in fake 60 fields/s for NLE.

[Joe Redifer]

<<<-- The only right way to do this is to record 24P and do a hardware-implemented 3:2 pulldown resulting in fake 60 fields/s for NLE. -->>>

That had better be the way it works or else I will stay far far away!

[Charles Papert]

OK, I'll try again, but bear in mind that this was coming from one of the guys at Panasonic who also erroneously told me that the Mini DV camera had native 16:9 chips, which it doesn't.

What he said, or what I thought he said, was that the camera head captures at 60p: 60 progressive frames of information per second. The user selects either 60i, 30p or 24p as the desired frame rate. The camera derives the desired frame rate from the 60p. If it is 60i, then that signal is sent to the recorder. If 30p or 24p, the appropriate pulldown is performed so as to achieve 60i for recording onto tape, but the keyframes are flagged so that the NLE can reconstruct the original framerate. This is the part that Panasonic and Apple are working on together for the next version of Final Cut Pro, as I understand it.

The only part of this that doesn't make sense is that the final output to 60i would, in my thinking, permanently trash the progressive aspect of the signal. But here my knowledge level of this process falls down. I'm sorry that I wasn't able to deliver the gospel, hopefully someone else can pick up the slack.

[Federico Martini]

The chips are 4:3, but does their resolution get better in comparison to the XL1's? Is it good for slow-mo?

[Chris Hurd]

Howdy from Texas,

It will not be a good camera for slow motion videography (the frame rate is not *that* variable.)

I did not speak to the Panasonic product manager myself, but everything I have heard confirms the explanation that Charles presents above.

My main concern is finding some solid, accurate info that can be used to construct some "Watchdog-style" pages for the website.

And yes it was only a couple of wooden mock-ups at NAB, but remember that Canon USA generated just as much excitement with similar non-functional wooden XL1 mock-ups at DV Expo in 1997.

[Robert Knecht Schmidt]

Well, I think the illuminating details should effectively kill the hype. Any camera that derives 24P by way of 60i is a piece of junk.

Still waiting for my prosumer 24P HD--

[David Mesloh]

On arena that hasn't been discussed is the huge "straight to video" market. Shoot it, edit it, dupe it. Your selling your product for cash. It's not a bad market to specialize in.

also Justin mentioned the Mini35 system that ZGC carries. It allows you to use cooke, Zeiss, etc. 35mm prime lenses with all the advantages of depth of field, etc.

I've seen some footage from this set-up. Yea I knew it was shot on an XL-1.......but the look of the final product was so outstanding I wouldn't have been able to tell if I hadn't read the explanation.

JMHO...

David

[Charles Papert]

Yes, I agree about the P+S Technik adaptor. I wasn't a fan of the version I saw last year but I liked what I saw of it's current (third generation) incarnation. I think it could make some really pretty pictures.

[John Threat]

The 35 mini adapter actually has a nice demo reel availible on CD that I watched. The clips provided enough to show a client and convince them to let me shoot a national spot on the Canon XL1S with the adpater instead of 16mm.

I hope the adapter won't let me down in actual use. :)

[Federico Martini]

For me, the most important thing to wait for, in this camera, is a higher resolution of it's chips. This would be the main improvement over the XL1 for every field of users here, everyone could benefit from it. If it is better than the XL1 then it will be considerable. Then we have secondary details for different uses:

For video-to-film, 24p makes it a bit easier than 25p but it doesn't seem like a big deal, you just wouldn't have to stretch that extra frame of your audio when transfering to 35mm.

For international videography, being able to shoot and then edit the same video in both PAL and NTSC, just by deciding that in your computer and in the camera, sounds like a big progress, avoiding the transfer house.

For a humble slo-mo, if the camera can do 60p, at least it would be better than regular video.

[Federico Martini]

Isn't this better resolution in the chips?

AG-DVX100
"Representing a revolutionary leap in digital video technology, the palm-size AG-DVX100 is equipped with three, newly-developed 1/3" 410,000-pixel progressive- scan CCDs"

XL1
"3 CCD 1/3" Pixel Shift (charge coupled device) 270,000 pixels (250,000 effective pixels)"