Desaturated at DVinfo.net

Grant McClintock · March 26th, 2004, 06:19 AM

I am shooting a golf course with a Panasonic DVX 100. I have the camera set up so the screen on the camera looks great. Very rich colors. When I capture this into FCE I lose all this richness and get a desatured look (Apple flat screen monitor). I want discover what's going on before I get too far along. Any ideas/solutions? Thanks.

Grant McClintock

Jeff Donald · March 26th, 2004, 06:57 AM

How does the image look if you connect the camera straight to a monitor?

Grant McClintock · March 26th, 2004, 05:47 PM

Jeff,
I ran the tape through a TV monitor and it didn't look much better. It is much flatter than in the camera. Grant

Grant McClintock · March 26th, 2004, 05:53 PM

I asked this question to an editing formum but thought I would post it here as well in case I am doing something wrong related specifically to the DVX 100.

I am shooting a golf course. I set up the DVX 100 to give very rich, saturated colors. I have shot tests, and they looks great on the camera LCD but flat and unsaturdated when I play the tape back through various monitors. Any ideas?

Thanks, Grant McClintock

Stephen van Vuuren · March 26th, 2004, 06:03 PM

The LCD screen cannot be used to judge color saturation as it shows an oversaturated, limited color palette. You have to have properly calibrated broadcast monitor to setup the camera to make settings

Additionally, saturation can then be tweaked in post.

Adam Burtle · March 26th, 2004, 06:24 PM

like stephen said.. most LCD will always look a lot "better" than on ntsc monitor. usually they have higher contrast and saturation.

i can't comment specifically about the DVX because i have only shot with them a few times, but if you light the scene well (or in this case, shoot on a well-lit sunny day) you could get good contrast and saturation, which can then be enhanced in post.

Jeff Donald · March 26th, 2004, 06:51 PM

What settings were you using during recording? Any of the custom settings?

Ken Tanaka · March 26th, 2004, 10:56 PM

Two words: polarizing filter

This could be very useful to get richer color, at least through the lens, on a sunny day.

Of course you can also tweak the chroma settings. But you -will- need a good production monitor on the shoot if you really need to monitor color.

Grant McClintock · March 27th, 2004, 06:32 AM

Thanks very much for these replies. I understnad that I need a monitor to set the colr. What is the proceedure. Do I shoot tape, play back through the monitor and then adjust the setting until the playback looks right? Thanks for fielding these novice questions. Grant McClintock

Grant McClintock · March 27th, 2004, 06:40 AM

I have used some custom settings in order to get the look I wanted on the LCD. I now understand that I must calibrate the color using a monitor connected to the camera. I am assuming I go through the same proceedure except instead of trying for good results on the LCD, I want to calibrate it to look right on the monitor --apparently these two can be quite different. Grant

Jeff Donald · March 27th, 2004, 06:46 AM

You may have also adjusted the LCD to get the look you want also. Be sure to set the LCD back to factory default. Then feed a known signal (like color bars into a monitor. Adjust the monitor to view the bars properly. If unsure how to do this do a search, this has been discussed in the past. Then adjust the LCD, via it's controls, to match the monitor as close as possible. Now shoot some scenes and compare what you shot with the image on the LCD and monitor. they should be fairly accurate. If there are big differences in the scenes compared to the viewed tape, you have misadjusted some of the cameras controls.

Grant McClintock · March 27th, 2004, 07:11 AM

Thanks Jeff. I have not found anything specific to this question with my search. Probably using the wrong search words.

My problem is that I am working on a project which has a deadline, so I need to get something right for this and then I can adjust in leisure after that. This will be a DVD viewed on TVs for the most part. Can I simply adjust the camera setting on a hit and miss basis until they look right when played back through a TV? I Thanks Grant

Jeff Donald · March 27th, 2004, 04:01 PM

Do you have access to color bars? If so, calibrate your TV (monitor) to the bars, search monitor color bars calibration, for posts with information on how to do this.

If you don't have access to color bars to calibrate your monitor and LCD, then just shoot it in auto. when you have time to learn your camera and it's controls you'll have time to experiment. It will be easier to fix it in post if you have properly exposed video to begin with. If you shoot with your camera adjusted wrong, you may not be able to fix it in post.

Boyd Ostroff · March 27th, 2004, 08:30 PM

Here's one way to calibrate your TV or monitor http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm

Matt Gettemeier · March 28th, 2004, 01:58 AM

Since nobody said, "I second that!" to Ken's point I will. Anybody who's got experience in photography realizes the incredible benefit of polarizers and once you start using one you almost can't go back. For outdoor shots a polarizer is indispensable.

Your final image will look MUCH better if you get one! With a polarizer you can choose to have your water-hazards reflecting sky and appear blue, or if they use Aqua-chlor or some other colorant (sea-green water-hazards) then you can turn the polarizer to bring that out. Grass and leaves can either reflect sunlight or absorb it with a simple turn. Do you want the grass to appear shiny or DARK green? Or somewhere inbetween?

I'd say bite the bullet and get a GOOD polarizer that isn't really dark. B+W polarizers are really light so you can use 'em and you're only adding like half a stop. If nothing else you can get a pitch black cheapy and use it mainly on sunny days.

Any photo you've ever seen with a sky that fades to cobalt blue was shot with a polarizer. When I shot video of Lake Michigan in Chicago it came out looking like I was in the tropics! (Green water and cobalt sky... much better then reality... and the look I wanted.)

March 26th, 2004, 06:19 AM	#1
Grant McClintock Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tulsa, OK, United States Posts: 28	Desaturated Color I am shooting a golf course with a Panasonic DVX 100. I have the camera set up so the screen on the camera looks great. Very rich colors. When I capture this into FCE I lose all this richness and get a desatured look (Apple flat screen monitor). I want discover what's going on before I get too far along. Any ideas/solutions? Thanks. Grant McClintock

March 26th, 2004, 06:57 AM	#2
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	How does the image look if you connect the camera straight to a monitor? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 26th, 2004, 05:53 PM	#4
Grant McClintock Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tulsa, OK, United States Posts: 28	Desaturated I asked this question to an editing formum but thought I would post it here as well in case I am doing something wrong related specifically to the DVX 100. I am shooting a golf course. I set up the DVX 100 to give very rich, saturated colors. I have shot tests, and they looks great on the camera LCD but flat and unsaturdated when I play the tape back through various monitors. Any ideas? Thanks, Grant McClintock

March 26th, 2004, 06:03 PM	#5
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	The LCD screen cannot be used to judge color saturation as it shows an oversaturated, limited color palette. You have to have properly calibrated broadcast monitor to setup the camera to make settings Additionally, saturation can then be tweaked in post. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

March 26th, 2004, 06:51 PM	#7
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	What settings were you using during recording? Any of the custom settings? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 26th, 2004, 05:47 PM	#3
Grant McClintock Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tulsa, OK, United States Posts: 28	Jeff, I ran the tape through a TV monitor and it didn't look much better. It is much flatter than in the camera. Grant

March 26th, 2004, 06:24 PM	#6
Adam Burtle Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 173	like stephen said.. most LCD will always look a lot "better" than on ntsc monitor. usually they have higher contrast and saturation. i can't comment specifically about the DVX because i have only shot with them a few times, but if you light the scene well (or in this case, shoot on a well-lit sunny day) you could get good contrast and saturation, which can then be enhanced in post.

March 26th, 2004, 10:56 PM	#8
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Two words: polarizing filter This could be very useful to get richer color, at least through the lens, on a sunny day. Of course you can also tweak the chroma settings. But you -will- need a good production monitor on the shoot if you really need to monitor color. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

March 27th, 2004, 06:32 AM	#9
Grant McClintock Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tulsa, OK, United States Posts: 28	Thanks very much for these replies. I understnad that I need a monitor to set the colr. What is the proceedure. Do I shoot tape, play back through the monitor and then adjust the setting until the playback looks right? Thanks for fielding these novice questions. Grant McClintock

March 27th, 2004, 06:40 AM	#10
Grant McClintock Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tulsa, OK, United States Posts: 28	I have used some custom settings in order to get the look I wanted on the LCD. I now understand that I must calibrate the color using a monitor connected to the camera. I am assuming I go through the same proceedure except instead of trying for good results on the LCD, I want to calibrate it to look right on the monitor --apparently these two can be quite different. Grant

March 27th, 2004, 06:46 AM	#11
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	You may have also adjusted the LCD to get the look you want also. Be sure to set the LCD back to factory default. Then feed a known signal (like color bars into a monitor. Adjust the monitor to view the bars properly. If unsure how to do this do a search, this has been discussed in the past. Then adjust the LCD, via it's controls, to match the monitor as close as possible. Now shoot some scenes and compare what you shot with the image on the LCD and monitor. they should be fairly accurate. If there are big differences in the scenes compared to the viewed tape, you have misadjusted some of the cameras controls. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 27th, 2004, 07:11 AM	#12
Grant McClintock Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Tulsa, OK, United States Posts: 28	Thanks Jeff. I have not found anything specific to this question with my search. Probably using the wrong search words. My problem is that I am working on a project which has a deadline, so I need to get something right for this and then I can adjust in leisure after that. This will be a DVD viewed on TVs for the most part. Can I simply adjust the camera setting on a hit and miss basis until they look right when played back through a TV? I Thanks Grant

March 27th, 2004, 04:01 PM	#13
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Do you have access to color bars? If so, calibrate your TV (monitor) to the bars, search monitor color bars calibration, for posts with information on how to do this. If you don't have access to color bars to calibrate your monitor and LCD, then just shoot it in auto. when you have time to learn your camera and it's controls you'll have time to experiment. It will be easier to fix it in post if you have properly exposed video to begin with. If you shoot with your camera adjusted wrong, you may not be able to fix it in post. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 27th, 2004, 08:30 PM	#14
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Here's one way to calibrate your TV or monitor http://www.videouniversity.com/tvbars2.htm

March 28th, 2004, 01:58 AM	#15
Matt Gettemeier Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: St. Louis, Missouri Posts: 936	Since nobody said, "I second that!" to Ken's point I will. Anybody who's got experience in photography realizes the incredible benefit of polarizers and once you start using one you almost can't go back. For outdoor shots a polarizer is indispensable. Your final image will look MUCH better if you get one! With a polarizer you can choose to have your water-hazards reflecting sky and appear blue, or if they use Aqua-chlor or some other colorant (sea-green water-hazards) then you can turn the polarizer to bring that out. Grass and leaves can either reflect sunlight or absorb it with a simple turn. Do you want the grass to appear shiny or DARK green? Or somewhere inbetween? I'd say bite the bullet and get a GOOD polarizer that isn't really dark. B+W polarizers are really light so you can use 'em and you're only adding like half a stop. If nothing else you can get a pitch black cheapy and use it mainly on sunny days. Any photo you've ever seen with a sky that fades to cobalt blue was shot with a polarizer. When I shot video of Lake Michigan in Chicago it came out looking like I was in the tropics! (Green water and cobalt sky... much better then reality... and the look I wanted.)