DVX100a question at DVinfo.net

Deniz Turkmen · April 3rd, 2004, 04:14 PM

I was talking to a videographer about the DVX-100a. He said it's no good when it comes to pans, tilts, or any kind of handheld shooting because the 24p causes the image to jitter. Is there any truth to this?

Frank Granovski · April 3rd, 2004, 04:51 PM

Pans/tilts/zooms should always done slowly and sparingly, whether shooting in progressive or interlaced, with miniDV or a film cam---unless you're after a special effect.

John Britt · April 3rd, 2004, 04:53 PM

This is similar to the other question you asked, and as Stephen replied to that, there has been much discussion about the DVX100 and "jitters"/"choppiness." A search of the DVX100/DVC80 forum will turn up a lot of these.

Now to be fair, I shoot with a DVC80, but I read a lot of the DVX100 threads because it is a similar cam (and one which I may buy in the near future). It is my understanding, both from reading these threads here and reading other material regarding cinematography, that these "jitters" are A) More evident on the LCD during shooting than during playback and most importantly, B) Simply an aspect of shooting at 24 fps. Whether you're shooting on film or video, if you are shooting at 24 frames per second, you have to be more aware of movement within the frame. 24fps captures fewer frames of movement than NTSC video's 30 fps, and in some instances movement may look jittery -- even if you shoot on film.

The real question, though, is: has your videographer friend ever shot with a DVX100? Has he ever shot to film?

(I've done neither, but I've done my fair share of reading on the subject. And I like acting like a know-it-all... :D )

Deniz Turkmen · April 3rd, 2004, 05:42 PM

I realize that since I'm shooting at a lower framerate I have to use caution when moving the camera. The guy I talked to tried to give me the impression that any type of shots that require the camera to move should be avoided at all costs.

I feel I'm at a disadvantage because I've yet to buy the camera and take it out into the field to test it (I only tried it at B & H and found it difficult to get a feel for it). Since part of my style as a director is to move the camera around (dollies, pans, and tilts), I don't want to camera that will limit what I can do.

John Britt · April 3rd, 2004, 05:56 PM

Is there a rental house in your area that you can rent a DVX100 from for a day? It might cost you $100+, but if you are serious about making a movie with the DVX100, then it very well might be worth it. Since you are able to make it to B&H, I assume there might be a rental house in that area as well.

And do a search for threads on the movie "November" -- an indie film starring Courtney Cox and shot with a DVX100 -- or go buy the lastest issue of Videography where the cinematographer (who had previously only ever used film) talks about using the DVX100.

Deniz Turkmen · April 3rd, 2004, 08:41 PM

That's a real good idea John. My mind is so wrapped up with doing research on the internet that I didn't even think about that. Thanks for the suggestion.

Barry Green · April 4th, 2004, 05:51 PM

With all due respect to your friend's opinions, that's just nonsense. I shoot a half-hour TV show on the DVX, and the entire thing is done handheld, 24P, mounted on a GlideCam 4000. It looks great.

You can move the camera as much as you could move a film camera. Move it in the same way you'd move a film camera, and you'll get the same motion results as you'd get from a film camera. Wave it around like some people wave 60i video cameras around, and you'd get the same stroby, jumpy, jittery results as you'd get if you treated a film camera the same way.

You can definitely move the DVX, pan, tilt, do whatever you want -- just respect the frame rate and move it like a film camera, not a video camera.

April 3rd, 2004, 04:14 PM	#1
Deniz Turkmen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CA Posts: 166	DVX100a question I was talking to a videographer about the DVX-100a. He said it's no good when it comes to pans, tilts, or any kind of handheld shooting because the 24p causes the image to jitter. Is there any truth to this?

April 3rd, 2004, 04:51 PM	#2
Frank Granovski Outer Circle Join Date: May 2002 Location: Hope, BC Posts: 7,524	Pans/tilts/zooms should always done slowly and sparingly, whether shooting in progressive or interlaced, with miniDV or a film cam---unless you're after a special effect.

April 3rd, 2004, 04:53 PM	#3
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	This is similar to the other question you asked, and as Stephen replied to that, there has been much discussion about the DVX100 and "jitters"/"choppiness." A search of the DVX100/DVC80 forum will turn up a lot of these. Now to be fair, I shoot with a DVC80, but I read a lot of the DVX100 threads because it is a similar cam (and one which I may buy in the near future). It is my understanding, both from reading these threads here and reading other material regarding cinematography, that these "jitters" are A) More evident on the LCD during shooting than during playback and most importantly, B) Simply an aspect of shooting at 24 fps. Whether you're shooting on film or video, if you are shooting at 24 frames per second, you have to be more aware of movement within the frame. 24fps captures fewer frames of movement than NTSC video's 30 fps, and in some instances movement may look jittery -- even if you shoot on film. The real question, though, is: has your videographer friend ever shot with a DVX100? Has he ever shot to film? (I've done neither, but I've done my fair share of reading on the subject. And I like acting like a know-it-all... :D )

April 3rd, 2004, 05:42 PM	#4
Deniz Turkmen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CA Posts: 166	I realize that since I'm shooting at a lower framerate I have to use caution when moving the camera. The guy I talked to tried to give me the impression that any type of shots that require the camera to move should be avoided at all costs. I feel I'm at a disadvantage because I've yet to buy the camera and take it out into the field to test it (I only tried it at B & H and found it difficult to get a feel for it). Since part of my style as a director is to move the camera around (dollies, pans, and tilts), I don't want to camera that will limit what I can do.

April 3rd, 2004, 05:56 PM	#5
John Britt Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 621	Is there a rental house in your area that you can rent a DVX100 from for a day? It might cost you $100+, but if you are serious about making a movie with the DVX100, then it very well might be worth it. Since you are able to make it to B&H, I assume there might be a rental house in that area as well. And do a search for threads on the movie "November" -- an indie film starring Courtney Cox and shot with a DVX100 -- or go buy the lastest issue of Videography where the cinematographer (who had previously only ever used film) talks about using the DVX100.

April 3rd, 2004, 08:41 PM	#6
Deniz Turkmen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CA Posts: 166	That's a real good idea John. My mind is so wrapped up with doing research on the internet that I didn't even think about that. Thanks for the suggestion.

April 4th, 2004, 05:51 PM	#7
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	With all due respect to your friend's opinions, that's just nonsense. I shoot a half-hour TV show on the DVX, and the entire thing is done handheld, 24P, mounted on a GlideCam 4000. It looks great. You can move the camera as much as you could move a film camera. Move it in the same way you'd move a film camera, and you'll get the same motion results as you'd get from a film camera. Wave it around like some people wave 60i video cameras around, and you'd get the same stroby, jumpy, jittery results as you'd get if you treated a film camera the same way. You can definitely move the DVX, pan, tilt, do whatever you want -- just respect the frame rate and move it like a film camera, not a video camera.