Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Here's info on the x900m replacement.

Panasonic HC-X920 review ? Hands on | Expert Reviews

I was hoping for something a little more upscale, but that didn't happen.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

I split this post out of our mammoth TM900 thread, mainly because it's not about the now-long-discontinued TM900 but rather the replacement of the replacement of the TM900. Thanks for understanding!

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

And here is the full Panasonic Press Release. Back lit sensor illumination sounds a great new addition - should really improve the low light performance! (as claimed below)

Panasonic Introduces Full Lineup of Full-HD Camcorders at DV Info Net

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

If the 920 is anywhere close to $999, it's not worth it (at least for me).
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/838813-REG/Panasonic_HC_X900M_HC_X900M_High_Definition_Camcorder.html
would seem to be a better value UNLESS the new model comes in at $799.

Just MY opine, of course.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Interesting hands-on report here:

Panasonic HC-X920 HD camcorder pictures and hands-on - Pocket-lint

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

No way will it be 1000 BP, I'd say more likely 600 BP and Panny will be lucky to get that. $999 US will be pushin it. We have that Pro Model ac90 lurking about for less than 2k.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Here's the Pana page: HC-X920/HC-X920M/HC-X910 | HD Camcorder | Panasonic Global

New: X920: 3mos
 

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

For an MSRP of $1000, Id look more closely at the new Canon that has reportedly a %20 improvement in low light ( VIXIA HF G20 Camcorder ) and Id bet superior glass. So I agree pricing wise, if it rolls at the same price as the Canon, I think that Canon will eat its lunch.

Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : VIXIA HF G20

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

I think G20 will not equal the low light performance of the X920 BSI backside illumination 3MOS chips which claim 50% noise reduction, fast Leica f/1.5 lens. Also 5 axis optical stabilizer, not to mention AVCHD 2.0 with 1920x1080/60p. The Canon will not be able to equal the resolution either with its single cmos chip and RGB filter.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Tom hit the nail on the head. The Panny will have 1000 TV lines resolution, but I bet the Canon won't.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Hi

Seems Panasonic are giving us little extra and I'm sceptical of the noise reduction claims, their PR have made these claims on each new model and it's never been seen in the real world!

Still the sensors are larger and back lit, but then carry more pixels, so each pixel is smaller so has less light gathering ability and so more noise in low light. I wouldn't be surprised if noise results are very similar in this camcorder to the last model. It is still the numbers game with pixels.

We also still have a fan and I guess the same noise issues if using the internal mic, so nothing new in the LSI department, still the same hot old chip.

Also disappointed Panasonic haven't given us higher recording rates like Canon, which would make a bigger difference than any other change possible, however that probably comes down to these camcorders having the same LSI as previous models which just isn't capable of doing it.

Their PR also allude to the camcorder being Ultra HD as this is the latest buzz word with "equivalent to four times the pixel count of Full-HD" in their blurb to trick those new to this hobby, of course it doesn't matter how many pixels are on the sensor we still get 1920x1080, but I guess that is why they are packing so many pixels so they could boast such things, and then had to go with a back lit sensor to keep the noise levels the same, sorry I mean provide another 50% reduction on previous models.

Really want a reason to get a new camcorder from Panasonic, but two years on the trot, they've really done nothing interesting.

Regards

Phil

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

No, I think it's likely they trumped Canon with the X920 model, 4k pixel shift ad hype aside. The noise reduction in my observation of the AC90 is real and it is large. That said, there does not appear to be a big increase in light sensitivity, but there is a very prominent reduction in chroma noise with the new bsi chips that makes for an exceptionally clean image at 21db, and still very good at 30db. The advantage is you can use more gain cleanly, and the lens itself is 1/3 stop faster. The photo site count and size is not as large as you are probably thinking, as Panasonic totals the count from 3 sensors for 8,040k , but it is 2.2 mp effective or 2.6 mp gross count per R,G,B..

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

To me, there seems to be a huge hole tween 1-2k pricing, but maybe there's no market there?

The Pana ac90 seems like a steal for $1849 (B&H price), but I'd like to see a stripped down consumer version for $1299 or so but I dunno what they could strip out to make it profitable for them.:-(

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

I was assuming the AC90 shared the sensor with the X920 since the lens focal length is the same, but per the specs it does not. The sensor is actually much larger in the X920 (1/2.3 in) but it is under-utilized. The net result is the photosite size is 2.0 micron for the X920, 3.6 micron for the G20. The question that can't be answered, is how much of the G20's surface area is taken up by light blocking circuity? We know that 100% of the surface area is available to gather light on the X920's bsi sensors, as well as not having to be peek through an RGB filter which loses resolution. We'll just have to wait for the test to see which is the most sensitive, but I have seen the noise reduction attributable to bsi sensors in the AC90 and it is no exaggeration.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Is there a webpage with TM900, X900 and X920 specs for quick comparison of those cameras?

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Perhaps I must have somehow skipped this particular info while reading the specs but can anyone show me where it talks about the 24p mode? I just want to know if it's still within a 60i stream or is it finally native 24p from the very beginning?


With the way Panasonic is mentioning the specs for the X920, it makes it a bit confusing to people. "1/2.3" BSI MOS Sensor x 3" "38.28 megapixels (12.76 megapixels x 3 )" I mean for your average person, that means each chip is 1/2.3" when I really don't think that's accurate. Panasonic needs to be more clear with the specs.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

I think it is probably a single 1/2.3 inch chip, 12.76 mp, oriented vertically, divided into thirds top to bottom by the prism, and an effective 16:9 aspect ratio. If so, the math works out for 2 micron spacing of the photo sites. (Or the information is just flat out wrong.) The AC90 with (3) 1/4.7 inch chips and the same lens focal length works out to 2.2 micron spacing of the photo sites.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

So, this means that the ac90 and x900 will provide similar pic quality but the ac90 has a lot more features?

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Hi

It is odd as Panasonic haven't produced their own BSI sensors yet, they prefer another technology.

The V700 has a single 2.33" sensor so perhaps moving to 1/2.3" on the top models shouldn't be a surprise., I'm not sure how Panasonic could use a single 1/2.3" sensor and split the image into 3 across that same sensor and claim 3 MOS. I know their marketing spin is prone to over exaggeration but surely claiming 3 MOS when you just have a single MOS with an image split into 3 across the same sensor is too much of an untruth for even the most enthusiastic marketing department? Also this would barely be an improvement over typical single sensor camcorders.

Hopefully reviews will show this camcorder to be much better in the sensitivity and picture quality than their last two models which have really not been much different from each other in the picture quality/noise area.

Still it would have been nice to have the better images captured with less compression, however for that would have needed some serious R&D into improving the rather hot LSI I'm guessing. I doubt this LSI will change now in Panasonic HD camcorders as R&D will be going into 4K.

Regards

Phil

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

The B&H listing says the X920 has three 1/2" 3MOS sensors with BSI.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Here's more info on the chips:
3MOS System Pro | HD Camcorder | Panasonic Global
Still sounds like 3 individual chips.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

I agree, pretty clear it is 3 individual chips. Nice video too.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

"If" it really is that size than a much smaller portion of the chips are being used for video. That post that I linked to a while back mentioned that Panasonic could have been doing the same thing to the AC90 by saying 1/2.3" but was only revealing the size of the video portion in their description while for the X920, they are revealing the total size of the chip. That can be misleading to people just looking at the total size. Basically the size of the video portion of the chips that are in the X900, AC90 and the X9200 are probably all about the same because of the lens specs.

The post was last month and it's starting to sound more credible now that Panasonic is using the 1/2.3 specs for the X920.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Yes I mentioned the chip could be underutilized but there is another possibility. It's been assumed the lens is the same as the ac90 because they share the same focal length, diameter and f/stop, but they could differ in the magnification at the (rear) element, in order to paint the entire 1/2.3" chip area with light. If so, the expected advantage of more surface area being covered by light is negated by the stretching of the exit pupil image, yet the expected disadvantage to small photo sites is offset by the fact that there are more of them being painted with light. In the end, it's the lens diameter that is responsible for collecting light and has the most impact on sensitivity.

Also fair to speculate Panasonic have used a 4k sensor, and the x920 is a transitional camera. Panasonic makes reference to 4k2k technology which could be construed to be the 1/2 pixel shift of the green sensor, or the inclusion of the 4k sensor.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Here's a 4K version of the AC90.

It could be using the same kind of chips as the AC90 and X920.


Here's another piece of info that you might be able to crack.

This is also in the X920 specs.
Motion Image 8.49 megapixels (2.83 megapixels x 3) [16:9]


I wonder if someone from Panasonic will ever be willing to comment.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Paul, I think you found the smoking gun, 3 x 2.83 mp effective pixels. Then together with the Crystal Pro II engine processing 4k through pixel shift, can only mean that a small portion of the 1/2.3" chip is used, approx equal to the area of the ac90 chips, 2.0 micron spacing for the X920, 2.2 micron spacing for the AC90.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

The sample video does look very nice. I wonder if there is an improvement in dynamic range over the TM700 and TM900.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Whoa, a 4K consumer prototype from Panasonic? That makes Panny, Sony and JVC.

Who still thinks 4K won't be the norm in the near future? I'll bet it's coming a lot faster than most think.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Post deleted by author.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Anyone know the release date for the 920?

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

I just bought the predecessor to the HC-X920, the X900. I don't really need the built-in Wi-Fi that the 920 offers, and I'm not sure if the BSI implementation will make a marked difference in image quality sufficient to justify spending the extra money. Besides, the X900 is on for a really good price right now ($619.00).

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Hi, Steve, I am about to pull the trigger on an X900. Where are you seeing it for $619? Thanks.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Still not many user reviews from the X920. It's look like a very good low light performer. Anyone tested this one against the bigger AG-AC90 in low light?

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

I’m curious myself how this stacks up against the Canon HF G10/20. I’m wavering a bit in my Canon Fanboy status. I’ve been really impressed with my Panny Plasma, Blu-ray, DVD players for value vs. performance. Not that it equates to quality in their cameras, but I keep hearing so much buzz over their GH2/3.

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Hi Jason -

Here is the slashcam side by side of the analogous European models, the X929 and G25:

HD camcorder reviews/tests and comparison of Panasonic HC-X929 and Canon HF G25 Best values highlighted sorted by score

Looking at the side-by-side, the $898 (as of this post) X920 has a higher max bit rate (28mbps) than the 24mbps of the $999 (backordered from Amazon at this price) HF G20. And the X920 has a larger capacity stock battery too (1250mah vs 850mah).

On the other hand, the HF G20 has pro features such as color bars, a LANC port and cinegammas.

Based on the slashcam test, I think the X920's 12 lux low light performance is marginally better. - plus the 60p frame rate and saving $100 are both important considerations for me.

It's a tough call, but if I was upgrading from my TM900, I'd probably go with the X920.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Lanc port is a nice thing to have; even with my super cheapo Lanc controller – will check out those comparisons though. Thanks!

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

I just ordered an X920 from B&H at their current $900+/- price yesterday, after looking into it, as well as the PJ710V, G20, and PX100.

I discounted the JVC pretty fast, and then the Canon for lack of 60p mode. That left the Sony and the Panasonic. The specs for the Panasonic have it with an f/1.5-2.8 vs f/1.8-3.4 lens. The specs also show lux of 1.6 for the x920, and 3 for the 710V, both at 1/30 sec shutter of course.

I figured for roughly the same price, the Panasonic would give me 3 chips vs 1, better low light performance, much better at the tele end due to the aperture rating, but then I saw this YouTube comparison today.


You can imagine my dismay when the Sony footage shows significantly better low light imaging than the Panasonic! Also, I see no apparent picture quality advantage with 3 chips, in fact, the Sony seems to look sharper, and the Panasonic video seems to have some sort of wavering in details.

The Sony is on sale until tomorrow for only about $70 more than what I paid for the x920. Should I buy the Sony and return the Panasonic when it arrives, or should there be some "gain-up" DNR and telephoto aperture advantages that there are currently no side by side comparison videos of that would still make the Panasonic a better bet for 100% night use?

Paul

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Hi Paul and welcome to DVInfo.

Tricky question to answer and in truth only you can decide what to do. I often agonise for weeks over any camera purchases.

I will say that I have a TM900 (about 2 models back) and it's proved to be a superbly useful cam. Razor sharp and the 1080p50/60 is superb. This latest Panasonic model has a number of improvements over mine for sure.

I will say the mics on the TM900 are VERY susceptible wind noise, even in the slightest breeze. Seems that is still a problem for the X920 with the comparison video you posted above - the Sony PJ780 shots had much better/useable ambient audio in those riverside shot comparisons.

Maybe this latest Sony has the edge in some picture quality aspects versus the X920 too, I could not say for sure (I liked each cams results for different reasons). Any (picture quality) differences between these two cams are going to be minor/really only observable to pixel peepers, as you see above.

What's more important is to choose something that feels right for you, learn it's menu and characteristics/weaknesses/strengths inside out, and then shoot lots of stuff with it - and enjoy it!

The technical skills and creativity of the film maker/editor are what's really important. Either of these cams will produce a picture quality that just 10 years ago, maybe less, would have been undreamt of, even in a cam costing more than my house is worth!

Whatever you decide, once you have, don't forget to let us know how it works out - and good luck!

Re: Panasonic HC-X920 review
 

Well, I found the evidence too compelling to ignore, and went ahead and ordered the Sony. So, on Tuesday, the Panasonic will arrive, followed by the Sony on Wednesday. Does anyone know B&H's return policy? I am considering testing both cameras side by side and returning the loser.

If B&H will take an opened return, I would be happy to do a full gamut of tests on the Panasonic, even comparing it to my Panasonic SPX800 P2 broadcast camera. If anyone has any specific tests they would like to see done, please let me know and I will try to provide them. YouTube and/or full quality test files can be provided as well.

Paul