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-   -   DMC-GH1 Dedicated Forum (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-lumix-s-g-gf-gh-gx-series/145189-dmc-gh1-dedicated-forum.html)

Stephen van Vuuren March 5th, 2009 12:57 PM

DMC-GH1 Dedicated Forum
 
I think this camera has the potential to be at least as big as the 5D Mk II and thus a dedicated forum would make sense.

Bill Koehler March 5th, 2009 03:54 PM

I don't disagree, but it could make sense to wait until after the camera is shipping and people have real test/demo footage to post.
Part of the reason the Canon 5D2 made such a splash was the excellent demo footage that was out there BEFORE the final production camera shipped (Vincent LeForet's Reverie).


http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/...es-in-10-days/

All I have seen from the DMC-GH1 have been very short microclips.
So right now I would say we are running mostly on a boatload of anticipation and hope.
Just my 2 cents.

Harrison Murchison March 5th, 2009 04:42 PM

Is there pricing on the GH1 yet?

Jose A. Garcia March 5th, 2009 07:08 PM

I also agree with Bill. On paper this is probably my next photo/video cam and I just can't wait to see more of it but we'll have to wait and see if it's really a 5D killer or something along the lines of a 5D or even a complete disappointment for everyone who wants to use it for video.

If it turns out to be a camera that shoots high quality shallow DOF 1080p24 video without noticeable rolling shutter or row skipping artifacts I'm pretty sure it'll have its own forum as soon as the first tests are shown.

Chad Dyle March 5th, 2009 09:47 PM

Do we know if it will have auto focus for video? I'm really having issues with my D90. I was hoping by now Nikon would have released a firmware update to address some of its many problems.

Paulo Teixeira March 5th, 2009 10:02 PM

“The imminent arrival of the DMC-GH1 had been widely expected in the run-up to PMA 2009 (though its name hadn't - many were expecting a 'G1-HD'). Now that the camera has finally shown up it does, as expected, resemble little more than a DMC-G1 with various extra bits and pieces added on, all in support of its hotly-anticipated HD video functionality. But unlike recent DSLRs that have offered video capability, the GH1 is capable of continuous autofocus in movie mode using its purpose-designed contrast-detect AF system, and Panasonic has supported this with the all-new, specially optimized Lumix G Vario HD 14-140mm F4.0-5.8 lens; this should make it a far more usable option for users looking for a fully functional stills/video hybrid.”
Panasonic DMC-GH1 brief hands-on: Digital Photography Review

Bill Koehler March 5th, 2009 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Dyle (Post 1023076)
Do we know if it will have auto focus for video?

Yes. Read this.

Panasonic USA Pressroom

Valeriu Campan March 7th, 2009 03:02 AM

It looks like there is a 25fps option for PAL creatures. Something that Canon totally refused to accept or implement.
Also seems to have full manual control.
Wow! Let's wait for pricing and release dates.

Jack Zhang March 7th, 2009 04:13 AM

I'm a little weary of the bitrate that's gonna be used.

Chris Hurd March 7th, 2009 06:07 PM

No reason not to dedicate a forum to the GH1; it's just a matter of how best to re-organize the forum index page (it's a little too long as it is).

Richard Hunter March 8th, 2009 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Dyle (Post 1023076)
Do we know if it will have auto focus for video? I'm really having issues with my D90. I was hoping by now Nikon would have released a firmware update to address some of its many problems.


I've seen a lot about the autofocus in video mode (it has it) but nothing about whether you can manual focus or lock the autofocus while shooting video. Is that a lens function or camera function?

Richard

Anmol Mishra March 8th, 2009 03:47 AM

Well - if it gives an uncompressed HDMI image output I'm happy..

Jose A. Garcia March 8th, 2009 10:32 AM

I haven't seen HDMI out in the specs but if it happens to have it, then it's the perfect camera.

Bill Koehler March 8th, 2009 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia (Post 1024339)
I haven't seen HDMI out in the specs but if it happens to have it, then it's the perfect camera.

I haven't seen Panasonics spec's for the DMC-GH1 either.
Panasonic does have a spec. sheet for the DMC-G1 and it mentions having a miniHDMI port.
See here:

DMC-G1K - Lumix Digital Cameras - Shop and Compare at Panasonic

I would be stunned for the G1 to have HDMI, but the GH1 not to.

Valeriu Campan March 9th, 2009 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler (Post 1024670)
I haven't seen Panasonics spec's for the DMC-GH1 either.
Panasonic does have a spec. sheet for the DMC-G1 and it mentions having a miniHDMI port.

Panasonic premieres DMC-GH1 with HD video recording: Digital Photography Review

Jose A. Garcia March 9th, 2009 06:06 AM

Ok, confirmed. It has HDMI.

It looks like we'll be able to capture uncompressed footage from this cam. Hopefully we'll be able to bypass the pulldown used to convert 24p into 60i. (CORRECTION!!: Steve Mullen has confirmed the 24p clips are real 24p and not 60i.)

So... This is really becoming my dream camera in terms of price, sensor size and features. The only things I'm still a bit worried about are rolling shutter (it's not as noticeable as D90's or 5D's but it's still there) and Steve Mullen's comment about the lack of a 1/48 shutter in 24p mode which is basic to get a cinema motion feel.

We'll have to see more video samples.

Steve Mullen March 9th, 2009 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia (Post 1024736)
... the lack of a 1/48 shutter in 24p mode which is basic to get a cinema motion feel.

The frame-rate for a "movie feel" is anything low -- from 24fps to 30fps. It really makes no difference to an audience.

The shutter-speed adds and removes motion blur.

Therefore, your shutter-speed depends on how fast motion is in the frame AND how the you want the motion to look. Many of us have shot 16mm with 150-degrees, not 180-degrees. Our film didn't not look "un-film-like." :)

The coming FEB issue of Broadcast Engineering (Broadcast Engineering and Digital Television) has my article on judder in inexpensive cameras. Bottom-line there will always be TOO MUCH compared to film.

However, given the inherent judder, it would be useful to have a slow shutter-speed to add more motion blur. That's the reason 1/30th or 1/48th would be useful. But, CMOS chips run at 60Hz and have a minimum shutter time of 1/60th second. (Unless you use multiple exposure times as the EX1/EX3 allow at $10,000.)

Therefore, you'll have to tightly control motion within the frame and of the frame.

PS: yes, 25p with 1/50th second will be better.

Adrian Frearson March 9th, 2009 07:42 AM

A short hands on with some footage has been posted at http://www.slashgear.com/panasonic-m...tests-0736780/. It doesn't state what format/rate this was shot at, but this edit is 720 at 23.98. It does look as though there are some banding and jello problems, though as is pointed out, this is a pre production model.

Steve, I look forward to seeing the footage you post, I wondered if you noticed any of these problems when you used the camera?

Adrian

Jose A. Garcia March 9th, 2009 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen (Post 1024759)
The frame-rate for a "movie feel" is anything low -- from 24fps to 30fps. It really makes no difference to an audience.

Well, I agree on the fact that 25fps and 24fps are almost the same and have virtually no visual differences, but I can tell the difference between 24-25fps and 30fps and I think most people here can. Otherwise there wouldnt' be so many people asking for a 24p mode on the 5D MKII.

As you say, the 25fps 1/50 PAL version will probably look better.

Bill Koehler March 9th, 2009 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia (Post 1024736)
Ok, confirmed. It has HDMI.

It looks like we'll be able to capture uncompressed footage from this cam. Hopefully we'll be able to bypass the pulldown used to convert 24p into 60i. (CORRECTION!!: Steve Mullen has confirmed the 24p clips are real 24p and not 60i.)

Maybe. Hopefully. Let me play devil's advocate.
The DP Review specs+Manufacturer's Product Announcement mention using HDMI for playback. They say nothing about it being live while shooting. And will what gets there while previewing or shooting have completely bypassed the codec engine in the cam?

And that's great news about the 24p being real 24p, not inserted into a 60i bitstream.
But the odds are good that what comes out the HDMI port will have pulldown inserted for broadest TV compatibility, isn't it? Of course that can be removed...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia (Post 1024736)
So... This is really becoming my dream camera in terms of price, sensor size and features.

You are not alone. I just wish it went up to 1080p25,30/1080i50,60. And the maximum 24 MBps bitrate.

It didn't seem to make much difference when Canon pushed the bitrate from 17 Mbps to 24 Mbps on the HG/HF series consumer cams. The consensus was that the lens+sensor was most likely the limiting factor.

I don't think the lens+sensor is the limiting factor here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia (Post 1024736)
We'll have to see more video samples.

No kidding. I think this is where Panasonic has done the worst with the marketing of this camera. It may have to do with still finalizing details going to final production. But here we are, drooling idiots foaming at the mouth to get the goods on this camera...

Jose A. Garcia March 9th, 2009 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler (Post 1024901)
Maybe. Hopefully. Let me play devil's advocate.
The DP Review specs+Manufacturer's Product Announcement mention using HDMI for playback. They say nothing about it being live while shooting. And will what gets there while previewing or shooting have completely bypassed the codec engine in the cam?

And that's great news about the 24p being real 24p, not inserted into a 60i bitstream.
But the odds are good that what comes out the HDMI port will have pulldown inserted for broadest TV compatibility, isn't it? Of course that can be removed...

You are not alone. I just wish it went up to 1080p25,30/1080i50,60. And the maximum 24 MBps bitrate.

If you think about it, you'll only need uncompressed footage for vfx shots or heavy color grading. Sure it would be interesting to have a higher bitrate, but I think it'll do ok for standard shooting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler (Post 1024901)
It didn't seem to make much difference when Canon pushed the bitrate from 17 Mbps to 24 Mbps on the HG/HF series consumer cams. The consensus was that the lens+sensor was most likely the limiting factor.

I don't think the lens+sensor is the limiting factor here.

No kidding. I think this is where Panasonic has done the worst with the marketing of this camera. It may have to do with still finalizing details going to final production. But here we are, drooling idiots foaming at the mouth to get the goods on this camera...

I'm also looking forward to seeing more footage samples. You'd think that since the main difference between this cam and the G1 is FullHD video shooting, there'd be more sample shots released by Panasonic itself, but every single article about the camera just talks and talks about the amazing 1080p24 mode not showing video samples.

If you take a look at the only video showing basic 1080p video shooting with this camera so far, you'll notice quite visible banding in dark areas. I think Panasonic didn't show official clips yet because video mode's not completely ready for production. That's what I hope at least, because it would be really disappointing to finally buy this cam and realize that the video's just the same as it was in the pre-production model including the banding.

I guess we'll be able to see when the first finished pre-sales models are offered to some lucky ones, just like Vincent LaForet and his 5DMKII.

As I said, I'm still worried with shutter speed, judder, rolling shutter... One of the most important points when trying to match a cinema look is the sense of continuous movement, and extreme judder doesn't help.

Chris Hurd March 9th, 2009 05:40 PM

Not to side-track things, but... is the general consensus leaning toward a dedicated DVi forum?

Jose A. Garcia March 9th, 2009 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler (Post 1024901)
I don't think the lens+sensor is the limiting factor here.

Anyway one of the first lenses I'll buy for this cam is this one:

Four Thirds | Products | Standard Zoom

That's a 36-100mm for the GH1 with F2.8 on the whole zoom range. Looks interesting.

Jon Fairhurst March 9th, 2009 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd (Post 1025109)
Not to side-track things, but... is the general consensus leaning toward a dedicated DVi forum?

You might wait for some video to be posted. If it looks reasonably good, this camera will be a hit, and will deserve its own forum. In the unlikely event that people hate the video, it might become more of a novelty.

Then again, with 1080/24 and manual control, the video will have to be pretty sad for this camera not to be successful.

Still, I'd wait to see the pictures, just to make sure...

Bill Koehler March 10th, 2009 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jose A. Garcia (Post 1025111)
Anyway one of the first lenses I'll buy for this cam is this one:

Four Thirds | Products | Standard Zoom

That's a 36-100mm for the GH1 with F2.8 on the whole zoom range. Looks interesting.

Just one thing I would be cautious about.
They made a big deal about the new lenses for the GH1 being quiet.
No focus/zoom noise that then gets picked up in the audio.
With that caveat, I would say the 18-180mm also looks interesting.

Steve Mullen March 10th, 2009 12:44 AM

OK -- here is the link to ExposureRoom:

Steve Mullen On ExposureRoom - Videos

Remember these are 3rd generation videos. Anyway, I was checking for motion judder because I could see noise in the prototype which meant it was not a unit I was going to use for pix quality checks. You can also see the AF and AE at work.

The zoom ring was so stiff there was no way I was going to try zooming while shooting. Big negative for run & gun.

The other negative -- I have small hands and the grip was WAY too tiny to feel good and to feel solid. Pana skimped it a crucial area.

The switches and manual controls were wonderful. The symbols made no sense to me or to the rep.

Enjoy!

Jose A. Garcia March 10th, 2009 08:45 AM

I really hope video is a bit better in the final camera. Judder on the 1080p clip, too much banding on the 720p one and both samples show important rolling shutter artifacts. DOF is great though.

Adrian Frearson March 10th, 2009 12:42 PM

Steve, Thanks for posting these clips. The banding is again quite severe on these shots, so hopefully they will correct this before the release date. Looks promising though.

Adrian

Steve Mullen March 10th, 2009 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Frearson (Post 1025553)
Steve, Thanks for posting these clips. The banding is again quite severe on these shots, so hopefully they will correct this before the release date. Looks promising though.

Adrian

I was at the show an hour before it closed, so I'm not surprised the camera was not working well. Rolling shutter is just a fact of life.

Jose A. Garcia March 10th, 2009 08:16 PM

I'm also wondering if there's any way to smooth the juddering a bit.

Steve Mullen March 11th, 2009 01:29 AM

Finally, uploaded the 720p30.

Steve Mullen On ExposureRoom - Videos

Frankly, this 30Mbps clip I think looks wonderful. Much easier to edit than AVCHD.

Jose A. Garcia March 12th, 2009 05:04 AM

This is kinda still since we discovered that at least the pre-production models weren't perfect uh?

Bill Koehler March 12th, 2009 09:42 AM

That or we are waiting for the production models to be rolled out and reviewed. And there just isn't much more to say until then. I'm not expecting perfection. That would be RED. This doesn't have a RED pricetag.

This camera still represents the convergence of the big sensor interchangeable lens DSLR world and the small sensor video world at a consumer camera price point, attempting to retain the best features of both. Interchangable lens, Big sensor high resolution, depth of field, and low noise with small sensor video frame rates.

For myself, I can say I've looked at all the videos Steve Mullen has posted. He comments about whitelines - Where? I didn't see any. Or stuttering in 24p mode. I watched and wondered, what is he talking about? Looks good to me. Is it a computer playback issue?

I'm still pretty excited.
I'm looking forward to announcements from NAB.

And I think Steve should get a big, big Thank You for his contributions here.

Ian G. Thompson March 12th, 2009 09:43 AM

Your right. The talk actually slowed down in every forum that I'm a member of. They really need to display some professionally shot samples for us to look over.

Kurth Bousman March 12th, 2009 10:26 AM

patience . Let pany work out the worms . I have a feeling that just about every member in this forum will own this camera in a years time , or that canon and nikon will be fast on the heels with the d5000 and 500d.

Ian G. Thompson March 12th, 2009 10:29 AM

....which would be a good thing for us consumers.

Steve Mullen March 12th, 2009 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler (Post 1026586)
For myself, I can say I've looked at all the videos Steve Mullen has posted. He comments about whitelines - Where? I didn't see any. Or stuttering in 24p mode. I watched and wondered, what is he talking about? Looks good to me. Is it a computer playback issue?

the 24p has motion judder, not stutter.

the horizontal noise lines are very visible on the 720p video and were on the camera lcd itself.

Bill Koehler March 12th, 2009 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen (Post 1026788)
the 24p has motion judder, not stutter.

the horizontal noise lines are very visible on the 720p video and were on the camera lcd itself.

I went through and rewatched the videos today.
Yup, I found the horizontal noise lines. My bad.

The hardest problems to fix are the ones that are inconsistent. This looks like something that is easy to reproduce, so hopefully Panasonic can fix the problem.

Thanks for putting the videos out there.

Steve Mullen March 13th, 2009 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Koehler (Post 1026880)
his looks like something that is easy to reproduce, so hopefully Panasonic can fix the problem.

I'm not worried in the least.

Of course, when they fix this they could add pulldown which will complicate editing 24p.

On the other hand -- to match MOST 24fps -- it should be 24.976 and not 24.0.

Here's why I'll go with the GH1 rather than another HD camcorder -- flesh tones. Every low-cost camcorder yields pink flesh. Done right this is OK. But, as overall saturation increase, folks look sunburned. It's almost impossible to remove the excess red and add the missing yellow and green.

Looking at the 720p30 video you can see a non-pink look that filmmakers get. (I used to shoot 3M 16mm film that gave yellowish warmth rather than red warmth.)

I've found my Casio also shoots more accurate flesh than do camcorders. It seems companies have decided consumers want pink babies and kids. :)

Now if someone would make a lens with a zoom motor.

Chris Hurd March 15th, 2009 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren (Post 1022828)
I think this camera has the potential to be at least as big as the 5D Mk II and thus a dedicated forum would make sense.

Agreed, and done (finally). Here it is then.


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