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-   -   GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-lumix-s-g-gf-gh-gx-series/510714-gh3-buzz-buzz-b-buzz.html)

William Hohauser September 23rd, 2012 02:27 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I've read that the GH3 HDMI output is 4:2:0 (like HDV and XDCam EX) but since that color space is not in the HDMI standards that I have seen, I am not sure how that would work with other equipment. Perhaps the 4:2:0 is converted to 4:2:2 before outputting to the HDMI port but we are not getting any better color than what is recorded on the SD card. Unlike an AF100 where the SDI port is supposedly giving you video directly out of the image sensors before processing for AVCHD files.

If the GH3 puts out a clean 24p HDMI signal that I can record on an external recorder, I will be happier.

Don Litten September 23rd, 2012 02:42 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
The last word I heard on it William, was that it would be a clean 4:2:0, 8 bit HDMI out.

William Hohauser September 23rd, 2012 02:54 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Regardless, it will be minus AVCHD compression which is a big help. What I really want a backup recorder on my GH camera in case the SD chip fails in any way. That's how I shoot with my HDV cameras (a FireStore disk) and with the JVC HM750 (it has dual chip recording)..

Thomas Smet September 23rd, 2012 06:53 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Keep in mind that many HDMI ports on even pro level video cameras put 24p inside of a 60i stream. So if you wanted to use an external recorder for 24p shooting you may have to remove the 3:2 pulldown with software. Not a huge deal but something to think about.

I have had cameras with 100% uncompressed 4:2:2 HDMI output for years but I never used them in that way because of the extra hassle involved. Honestly I have become a fan of the progressive flavor of 4:2:0 and find it to be very sufficient even for visual effects work. Most of the software I use can filter the 4:2:0 into 4:4:4 so it doesn't make as big of a deal for me. Sure a true 4:4:4 would be better but I can live without it with a bit of care. The difference between progressive 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 isn't as big as it once was. Well at least when dealing with progressive footage. 60i is another story but then again I avoid interlaced like the plague these days. If I need a 60hz video I shoot 60p instead.

Jeff Harper September 24th, 2012 10:33 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Guys, I agree there are SO many variables to getting a great image from the camera.

First the LCD is unreliable, so I have to guess based on past experience. Secondly lenses each render colors so differently, IMO. Chip, I find the 45mm does tend toward less great color rendering, but my 12mm F/2.0 is always beautiful, as long as my settings are great. The 45mm has indeed produced images that looked somewhat washed out for me also. The secret I suspect is learning how to set white balance, etc., as needed for each lens to at least maximize the image quality. Then I find when I switch to the 25mm F/1.4 color can be too warm or cool, it it maddening. The 25mm can really drive me to distraction but at times it's just perfect, it depends on the light.

I have now moved to using primarily the Canon XA10s as my primary cameras for my weddings. I am not a cinematographer, and at my price point it is plain dumb for me to fool unnecessarily with lenses and cameras when I get absolutely stunning images with a real video camera. Images from the large sensor of the GH2 are gorgeous, no question, but I'm focusing more on getting the job done simply and efficiently. I don't have time in post to color correct mismatched cameras I"m so behind in my editing anyway.

The differences in colors with the various primes does drive me nuts, and it just saps my time and energy. For special projects, I will use the GH2 for sure, but for grunt video work like my weddings I am settling in to using the GH2 as third and fourth cameras, and the rest of the time they sit in my case.

Alan Halfhill September 25th, 2012 02:07 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hohauser (Post 1754118)
Once I attached the Varavon LCD EX-Supporter loupe, the GH2 became very stabile for handheld, even with non-stabilized lenses. I assume that the same will be true for the GH3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Janisch (Post 1754090)
Ergonomics alone may be worth it to me. Handheld with the GH2 is just as bad if not worse than handheld with the Canon XL2.

I find the opposite to be true. I use no loupes or rigs on my GH2. Just hold it like a still camera. Love the EVF. That is one of the strengths of the GH2 is that it is the only HDSLR that does not need a rig or loupe for shooting. And no extra cost.

William Hohauser September 25th, 2012 02:21 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I like the EVF as well but while using the 20mm pancake lens I just couldn't stabilized the camera enough especially with manual focus. The Varavon GH2 loupe fixes that. Other loupes that mount directly behind the camera didn't excite me at all.

Also during a long job with the EVF where I couldn't relax from looking thru the viewfinder for long stretches, I found that I was breathing on the camera so much that condensation was collecting between the folded LCD and the body. That's not good.

Kevin Janisch September 25th, 2012 03:02 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Stabilization is a major issue with my 25mm Takumar Super Muliti Coated Vintage lens (50mm after crop). Amazing footage, but holding her steady handheld leads to hand cramps very quickly. Will need a rig of some sort soon.

Kevin McRoberts September 25th, 2012 04:24 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Try a Gorillapod as a simple handhold stabilizer... multiple ways to make it work for you. Cheap and multi-use.

Mike Leah September 26th, 2012 06:10 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper (Post 1754965)
Guys, I agree there are SO many variables to getting a great image from the camera.

First the LCD is unreliable, so I have to guess based on past experience. Secondly lenses each render colors so differently, IMO. Chip, I find the 45mm does tend toward less great color rendering, but my 12mm F/2.0 is always beautiful, as long as my settings are great. The 45mm has indeed produced images that looked somewhat washed out for me also. The secret I suspect is learning how to set white balance, etc., as needed for each lens to at least maximize the image quality. Then I find when I switch to the 25mm F/1.4 color can be too warm or cool, it it maddening. The 25mm can really drive me to distraction but at times it's just perfect, it depends on the light.

I have now moved to using primarily the Canon XA10s as my primary cameras for my weddings. I am not a cinematographer, and at my price point it is plain dumb for me to fool unnecessarily with lenses and cameras when I get absolutely stunning images with a real video camera. Images from the large sensor of the GH2 are gorgeous, no question, but I'm focusing more on getting the job done simply and efficiently. I don't have time in post to color correct mismatched cameras I"m so behind in my editing anyway.

The differences in colors with the various primes does drive me nuts, and it just saps my time and energy. For special projects, I will use the GH2 for sure, but for grunt video work like my weddings I am settling in to using the GH2 as third and fourth cameras, and the rest of the time they sit in my case.

Are you happy with the 24p on the xa10? Ive been wanting one for a while to use along with my gh2 and I shoot primarily 24.

Jeff Harper September 26th, 2012 10:50 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I'm extremely happy, Mike. The images are just amazing to me. I love my XA10. I probably would not want the bigger brother to it, I actually love the small size, it works really well for me. Audio quality from the cam is stellar too.

Lee Ying September 28th, 2012 03:02 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I must be in the small minority here that find GH3's form factor a big turn off. A major reason I came to GH from Canon DSLR was its more portable size, especially with pancake lenses. I think the appeal of micro4/3 to many people was its smaller size relative to APC-S with little compromise of IQ. Panasonic just put GH3 out of their consideration with its decision to target the niche pro-video market.
In fact, only after the GH3 announcement did I decide to settle on a GH2 instead; GH3 is just too big for a hobbyist.

Tony Davies-Patrick September 30th, 2012 08:28 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Lee, if you need small size and weight, the GF-1 and GX-1 are great cameras in a tiny packet...and the GX1 performs very close to the GH2 in terms of video and stills images (or the G3, which has video/stills performance equal to the GX1).

Lee Ying September 30th, 2012 08:48 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Thanks Tony for suggestions. I think GFs and GX1 lack EVF and manual video. Those would be features any video enthusiast would want and cannot live without. I would imagine there are ways to put some bulky cover over a small body so that if people want better handling they can get a larger grip and look, and people like me would have the option of having a more portable body.

Jeff Harper October 1st, 2012 03:53 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Lee, we each have different likes about the camera, but many of us, me included, find the small size of the camera an issue.

Most of us here purchased the camera because of price and the amazing video quality, not for it's small size, the small size was a downside for many of us.

For day to day use in the field it is fiddly and too easy to hit buttons unintentionally. As a hobbyist, I can see the small size would be a plus. But as a pro shooter it's a different thing altogether. Just my two cents.

William Hohauser October 2nd, 2012 02:55 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Another interesting interview with Panasonic:

Q&A with Panasonic: The story behind the new video-centric GH3 and other compact system camera tech advances - Imaging Resource

Dennis Vogel October 2nd, 2012 08:49 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper (Post 1756242)
For day to day use in the field it is fiddly and too easy to hit buttons unintentionally. As a hobbyist, I can see the small size would be a plus. But as a pro shooter it's a different thing altogether. Just my two cents.

It's not just pros. Even for some of us hobbyists, the GH2 size is an issue. I'm not a big guy but I'd say I have slightly larger than average hands. I find using the GH2 buttons to be difficult at times. I'm not ready to spring for a GH3 but I do like the larger size.

D

Bill Thesken October 2nd, 2012 10:26 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
2 Attachment(s)
Put a handle on it. I borrowed this from my Craftsman drill that cost about $50.
I use it for any camera I have, Coolpix, GoPro when I'm in the water, GH2.
It takes the big mitts out of the equation.
I saw a guy with a retractable monopod that looked like the ticket for on land run and gun use.

Don Litten October 3rd, 2012 09:01 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I've gotta say that the small size is a blessing and a curse, depending on how it's set up.

One GH2 is on rails with a Rode Videomic and Loup and depending on what lens, a follow focus. It's far from small but easy to handle.

The other is in a Shrigg Rig with a smaller mc. Smaller than the rails but still easy to use.

Anytime I need small to get into a "No Professional Cameras" venue or just because I don't want the bulk, I can take them off and use the bare camera.

Dennis Vogel October 3rd, 2012 11:21 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Thesken (Post 1756424)
Put a handle on it. I borrowed this from my Craftsman drill that cost about $50.
I use it for any camera I have, Coolpix, GoPro when I'm in the water, GH2.
It takes the big mitts out of the equation.
I saw a guy with a retractable monopod that looked like the ticket for on land run and gun use.

Great idea but you still need to use your fingers to adjust settings. That's as much of a problem for me as just holding the camera. I don't see any solution to that other than to be careful and watch every move so the wrong button doesn't get pressed.

But thanks for the tip.

D

Tim Polster October 8th, 2012 06:44 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Thanks for posting the interview william. I am still confused about the HDMI output. The word uncompressed is being used a lot but I have also heard that the uncompressed stream might be 4:2:0 I would like to know if this is true. If it is, kind of a bending of what we all think of as uncompressed output for external recorders.

Anybody know this info?

William Hohauser October 8th, 2012 08:27 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
The question is where In the processing chain are they referring to the the term "compression". The image goes thru a number of processes before recording or monitoring. Compression is possibly applied in several places, but definitely in the AVCHD transcoding process, some compression at 50mbs, much more at 19mbs. Since AVCHD is a 4:2:0 codec (at least in the GH2 and most other HD cameras), it's not unreasonable to assume that the raw image is first processed into 4:2:0 and then distributed to the various outputs the camera has; EVF, LCD, analog video port, HDMI, AVCHD encoder). However, my understanding of the HDMI standard (certainly a very basic understanding) is that it's a 4:2:2 video data stream not 4:2:0 but it's certainly possible that all HDMI receiving devices can automatically convert a 4:2:0 signal to 4:2:2, of course without improving the quality of the signal. The interviewees are probably talking about the AVCHD compression since 4:2:2 is a compression as well. I hold a very, very modest hope that the video signal is 4:2:2 until it's encoded into AVCHD.

Ron Fabienke October 18th, 2012 03:26 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz....bit rate question
 
I'm not up to speed on all the differences in bit rate terminology. On the Nanoflash sub forum the highest bit rates I have read that are available in "I-Frame" mode seem in most situations not to be worth the large increase in memory needed vs lower "high" rates in the "Long-GOP" mode in perceived increase in PQ.

With the Panny GH3 the highest choices are "ALL-Intra" at 72Mbps vs "IPB" at 50Mbps.

Is the "IPB" the same as, or different than "Long-GOP" and can the same deduction be made that 50Mbps in IPB is virtually indistinguishable from 72Mbps in All-Intra and far less memory required?

Ron Fabienke October 18th, 2012 04:23 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz....bit rate question
 
Will stay with 64GB SanDisk Extreme Pro cards and be safe. 95Mbs read / 90Mbs write


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/824149-REG/SanDisk_SDSDXPA_064G_A75_Extreme_Pro_64GB_SDHC_SDXC.html

Bo Skelmose October 23rd, 2012 03:17 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Hi
Considering the new Lumix GH-3.
I need a silent camera for making photos of deers - I can see that there is a silent mode for making video - but can the beeps and miror flapping sounds also be silenced in photomode ?

Kevin McRoberts October 23rd, 2012 07:50 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Hard to say with certainty, but if it's like my GH2, then yes.

Guy Smith October 29th, 2012 01:13 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Thesken (Post 1756424)
Put a handle on it. I borrowed this from my Craftsman drill that cost about $50.

A friend picked up this grill handle at Barbeques Galore for ~$7. The threads are 1/4-20, standard tripod mount and you can also find it online at Amazon:

Bill Bruner November 29th, 2012 09:22 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
FYI - Just got the tracking number for my GH3 from Adorama! Ordered on Sep 18th, should be here on Dec 4th. I'll post some side-by-sides with my stock GH2 as soon as I can.

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Bill Bruner December 5th, 2012 06:11 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
My GH3 is here! Sitting in a box by the front door - will unbox and start the side-by-sides this weekend!

Jim Giberti December 5th, 2012 10:29 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Got one arriving tomorrow Bill.
Also really interested to shoot some comparisons.
What are you comparing it with?

Bill Bruner December 6th, 2012 04:08 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Hi Jim - I will start with my unhacked GH1 and GH2. And, as soon as its available, I want to rent a Panasonic AG-AC90 camcorder for a "$2000 pro camcorder vs $2000 (with lens) video-centric hybrid" shootout.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Bo Skelmose December 7th, 2012 04:28 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Have anyone tested the HDMI out - I would like to know if it can deliver 1920x1080 50P and 60P ?
I am also wondering if the micro four thirds mount is the same on all panasoniv micro four third cameraes. Will the mtf adapters or lenses that are made for GH1 or the AG-AF400 fit on the GH3?

Colin Rowe December 7th, 2012 04:41 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Google, Google, Google. Its all out there DMC-GH3 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global

Does say its clean output, but obviously, not sure exactly what format

Bo Skelmose December 7th, 2012 05:19 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Hi Colin
I have looked at these sites but I cannot see for shure that it can output 1920x1080 50P - I have learned through time that if it is not stated in the material - I cannot count on it. They do not write what the stuff cannot do. In the specifications for the HDMI it says 1080P,1080i,720...........
Micro four third - are there different types? The 14-140mm lens has a G applied and I have downloaded the g_series_system_chart so I wonder if there is a special MFT G mount....

I also wonder if it can be powered from the USB socket or the "DC Coupler" that is'nt stated in the specifications.
I am considering if I can use the GH3 behind the goal in Ishockey - taking the HDMI out and convert to HD-SDI and record to a Black Magic Hyperdeck studio Pro. Then slows can be played back from the BM recorder.

Bo Skelmose December 10th, 2012 06:50 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Found out that it deliver 1920x1080 P50 from the HDMI :) Orderd a GH3 and a G5 and some converters from MTF so I will find out if they work together.


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