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-   -   GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/panasonic-lumix-s-g-gf-gh-gx-series/510714-gh3-buzz-buzz-b-buzz.html)

Kevin McRoberts September 14th, 2012 09:47 AM

GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 

[vimeo]49437111[/vimeo]


Note the lens at 2:11. Arguably more exciting than the new camera.

Jeff Harper September 14th, 2012 12:15 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
The body is larger, and with increased dynamic range the camera might be a worthy upgrade, but for general video purposes, not sure it will be worth much.

Higher bit rates, nice. Can someone tell me why we would need 60p? It's not supported on any television, is it? Isn't that years away? Bluray doesn't support it, I know.

William Hohauser September 14th, 2012 12:19 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I am ready for it.

Evan Donn September 14th, 2012 12:56 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper (Post 1753431)
Can someone tell me why we would need 60p? It's not supported on any television, is it? Isn't that years away?

You shoot 60p, play it back at 24p, and end up with very nice, smooth slow motion.

Nate Haustein September 14th, 2012 05:53 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Sharp, dynamic, small and cheap B-camera with 1080p60 and a high I-frame bit rate that will sell for next to nothing. Yes please.

Jeff Harper September 14th, 2012 05:58 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
You can't play back 60p at 24p, you would have to convert it first to 24p. If I want 24p I would shoot in 24p, not 60p, unless there is something I am missing. Please explain. I have shot in 720 60p, which is fantastic, but I would never dream of converting it to 24p, but then there is a lot I have to learn also.

Nate Haustein September 14th, 2012 06:18 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Harper (Post 1753491)
You can't play back 60p at 24p, you would have to convert it first to 24p. If I want 24p I would shoot in 24p, not 60p, unless there is something I am missing. Please explain. I have shot in 720 60p, which is fantastic, but I would never dream of converting it to 24p, but then there is a lot I have to learn also.

You're right Jeff, it would be silly to record 60p then convert to 24p if you're going for realtime playback. What he's referring to, however, is a way to produce smooth slow motion in a 24p project by recording at 60p.

Normally 60p plays back at 60 frames per second, but if you use a program like Cinema Tools or an NLE to tell the 60p clip to play back at 24 frames per second, the clip takes 2.5x times longer to play out. The 60 original frames per second are distributed over 2.5 seconds yielding slow motion without any interpolation or blending.

It works just like the variable frame rates of a HVX200 or 35mm film camera you use the 24p frame rate for the normal real-time content, then shoot with 60p for 2.5x slow-mo shots!

Bill Bruner September 14th, 2012 09:15 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I shoot at 1080/60p all the time on my TM900 and FZ150 and render at 60p - not for slow motion, but for smoother motion. 24p looks jerky to me when I'm shooting fast action or following my kid around.

With the GH2, I use 30p, for similar reasons, but wish I had 60p. I used to shoot 24p, because I thought it was more "professional" (a hangover from Super 8 camera days 40 years ago, when the big deal was to upgrade from "home movie" 18fps to "Hollywood" 24fps :)).

That said, I don't shoot 24p much anymore - unless I'm matching frame rates between the GH2 and the GH1, where 24p is the fastest the old girl will go.

Needless to say, I'm saving up for a GH3.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Chip Thome September 14th, 2012 09:46 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
99% of the decision has been made for me, all I need to know now is the price. That is going to make or break it for me as there's only so much a camera is worth to me. Another variable is the GH2 close out, and what price point that will be at.

Jeff Harper September 15th, 2012 12:14 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Bill the GH1 and GH2 both have 720 60p, which I love. I shoot with other cameras that do not have 720 60p now, so now I shoot in 24p so my cameras all match. I do like 24p just fine, but it does take getting used to. For weddings, 24p works out very well for me. Not perfect but it's 1080 and it's progressive, so I can't complain.

Nate, thanks for the explanation, I appreciate it.

Christian Christensen September 15th, 2012 08:05 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I'm in if the price is sub $1000!

Thomas Smet September 15th, 2012 10:12 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Recently bought a GH2 and still have my GH1 sitting around. If the GH3 really does have better better audio and a headphone jack I will sell both and buy a GH3. To me DSLR cameras still have a few areas lacking compared to video cameras. One is audio and the other is fast zoom lenses. If the GH3 really does have a 3.5mm audio jack, optional XLR adapter and an audio out jack for headphones I am sold.

There is also some discussion that since the GH3 for sure uses 50 mbits that they may be using AVC-LongG which uses 4:2:2 10bit. If that is the case then Panasonic just changed the industry again.

Still would love to see better options for us run&gun shooters for lens options however. We are getting there but it has been slow. Had to do a shoot this week where I had to follow two TV hosts around a park to interview people. Wanted to use my GH2 but it just wasn't practical. Had to use an old Sony Z1U and it was a breeze doing run&gun. Makes me kind of regret selling my HMC-40 now. Only a little. The thing was so bad in low light it had to go.

Patrick Janka September 15th, 2012 02:37 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I haven't seen it confirmed that the 60p is at 1080. It just says 60p, which we already have at 720.

Simon Wood September 15th, 2012 02:46 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet (Post 1753575)

There is also some discussion that since the GH3 for sure uses 50 mbits that they may be using AVC-LongG which uses 4:2:2 10bit. If that is the case then Panasonic just changed the industry again.

Phillip Bloom shot a film with it with Bruce Logan. On his site he says the following about the codec:

"What I can say is its a massive step up from the previous model and has a superb 72mb/s All-I codec which is a world away from the compressed as hell AVCHD codec that we are used to on many cameras and on all their previous G series cameras."

Thomas Smet September 15th, 2012 05:40 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
It records with two modes. 50mbit and 72mbit i-frame only. It is confirmed it shoots in both modes. Since both are not AVCHD standards there is talk of Panasonic using their new avc-LongG they displayed at NAB. This encoding technology was listed as coming out early 2013 but perhaps the GH3 is the first camera to use it. 72mbits is right in between the 50 mbit and 100 mbit versions of AVC-Intra. Not sure what they are doing there.

We will find out for sure on Monday.

Alan Halfhill September 15th, 2012 10:49 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I use my GH2 for News or run and gun. Did some reports on the Sequim Balloon Festival. I love my Lumix G X 12-35mm f/2.8. This lens is perfect for run and gun and weddings because of the O.I.S. Just did 2 weddings with it. If the GH3 has a headphone jack I will be in heaven. Looks like a great camera. More quality than I need. Love the GH2.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet (Post 1753575)
Recently bought a GH2 and still have my GH1 sitting around. If the GH3 really does have better better audio and a headphone jack I will sell both and buy a GH3. To me DSLR cameras still have a few areas lacking compared to video cameras. One is audio and the other is fast zoom lenses. If the GH3 really does have a 3.5mm audio jack, optional XLR adapter and an audio out jack for headphones I am sold.

There is also some discussion that since the GH3 for sure uses 50 mbits that they may be using AVC-LongG which uses 4:2:2 10bit. If that is the case then Panasonic just changed the industry again.

Still would love to see better options for us run&gun shooters for lens options however. We are getting there but it has been slow. Had to do a shoot this week where I had to follow two TV hosts around a park to interview people. Wanted to use my GH2 but it just wasn't practical. Had to use an old Sony Z1U and it was a breeze doing run&gun. Makes me kind of regret selling my HMC-40 now. Only a little. The thing was so bad in low light it had to go.


Bill Bruner September 15th, 2012 10:57 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Janka (Post 1753604)
I haven't seen it confirmed that the 60p is at 1080. It just says 60p, which we already have at 720.

Patrick - it's confirmed. From Philip Bloom's writeup on the camera after shooting with it:

"Handling on the camera is also much improved, feeling much more solid in your hand. Better controls with a back dial like on other DSLRs and some fantastic features like 1080p 60p for nice slow motion ability."

Cheers,

Bill

Andrew Rowe September 16th, 2012 06:54 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet (Post 1753618)
72mbits is right in between the 50 mbit and 100 mbit versions of AVC-Intra. Not sure what they are doing there.

I don't think 50mbit intra would look as good as 50mbit inter, which the camera will already have. Broadcast spec among the main UK broadcasters, for example, is 50mbit for an inter-frame codec and 100mbit for intra-frame, since inter-frame compression is more efficient.

Perhaps they've gone for 72 because that's at the limit of camera/card stability; but it may also be that they're holding back pro/broadcast specs for a future camera aimed at the professional market. Whatever the case, it's a step ahead of the DSLR competition and good enough to keep the target market happy - for a while!

If the price is within UK500/US$800 of the GH2, it will be a very good deal.

Thomas Smet September 16th, 2012 07:10 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Bruner (Post 1753638)
Patrick - it's confirmed. From Philip Bloom's writeup on the camera after shooting with it:

"Handling on the camera is also much improved, feeling much more solid in your hand. Better controls with a back dial like on other DSLRs and some fantastic features like 1080p 60p for nice slow motion ability."

Cheers,

Bill

The one slow motion shot in the production video is also clearly 1080p which means it is there and it looks good. That may be worth the price alone for anybody that shoots slow motion. Not having to use 720p and scale it up will be huge for those people.

If Peter Jacksons 48p film mode catches on as well the new 50p in the GH3 could be a great way to create that look with only a tiny audio shift.

Thomas Smet September 16th, 2012 07:15 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Rowe (Post 1753674)
I don't think 50mbit intra would look as good as 50mbit inter, which the camera will already have. Broadcast spec among the main UK broadcasters, for example, is 50mbit for an inter-frame codec and 100mbit for intra-frame, since inter-frame compression is more efficient.

Perhaps they've gone for 72 because that's at the limit of camera/card stability; but it may also be that they're holding back pro/broadcast specs for a future camera aimed at the professional market. Whatever the case, it's a step ahead of the DSLR competition and good enough to keep the target market happy - for a while!

If the price is within UK500/US$800 of the GH2, it will be a very good deal.

Agree. I always considered even 100mbit Intra slightly on the low end. I think that is why Panasonic is creating a 200mbit and 400 mbit version for the near future. I'm pretty sure the 72 was a card speed limit. I think any higher would have required very fast class 10 cards and perhaps 72mbit is about as fast as you can get with decent stability on a class 6 card. It could also just be a stability thing. Even though some of us push the hacks to 100 mbit and even 200 mbit that doesn't exactly mean they are perfectly stable. Out of the box Panasonic can only go so far and still have 100% stability. If we want higher I'm sure the GH3 will eventually be hacked and we will be able to bump that 72mbits to 176mbits or whatever. I would kind of embrace the stability factor since I do a lot of run&gun shooting and may actually consider never hacking the GH3 if it does look that good.

Bill Bruner September 16th, 2012 08:09 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip Thome (Post 1753508)
99% of the decision has been made for me, all I need to know now is the price...

Preorder price is $1299.99 at Samy's. Compared to other magnesium alloy cameras in its class, that seems reasonable. It is $1500 less than the A99, $800 less than the D600, $200 less than a 7D, and $300 more than a OM-D E-M5 or D7000. I'm in :)

Bill Bruner September 16th, 2012 08:19 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Video shot with GH3 posted by Phil Bloom on Vimeo:

Don Litten September 16th, 2012 09:07 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I've been following the GH3 pretty closely. It's mildly impressive from my POV.

First and darned important to me. It's still a Panasonic CONSUMER camera with support from the CONSUMER DIVISION and considering my experience with the warranty in that division....a 1300.00 disposable camera.
That's my opinion only but has cost Panasonic the sale on at least one new GH3.

Second, aside from 1080-60 (which I freely admit I love on my AC160) and a better build, I'm not seeing much the hacked GH2 doesn't have covered.

Third, It may become a super camera if it's hackable, has uncompressed HDMI and doesn't have too many bugs, but that remains to be seen. If I were to change my mind it would be after it and the Black Magic were out for a while and I can get a good feel for both in the real world.

Right now I'm happy with what I have.

Thomas Smet September 16th, 2012 09:39 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Don the feeling is kind of the same when the GH2 first came out. The GH2 could not be hacked and to many a hacked GH1 was actually better. In the end most people eventually moved to the GH2 because it became hackable and it was the extra features that really sold the camera.

Keep in mind there is a lot we don't know yet about the GH3. The specs that were leaked if they are in fact even true only scratch the surface of what specs and features the camera will have. In about 24 hours we should all know what the GH3 will be.

Of course the GH2 will still be a great camera. Heck in the right situations I think the hacked GH1 is still a killer camera. In the end it really comes down to ease of workflow and features. Areas where the GH3 may see the most significant upgrades.

Don Litten September 16th, 2012 10:19 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Oh I know Thomas, and I'm not even remotely suggesting that others not buy one. As you said, we don't know a lot yet. I'm especially interested in seeing ig they come out with 4,2,2.

The warranty has left a sour taste with me and it will be a long time going away, if ever.

It's always exciting to see new things come out...I don't usually jump on them though.

I've been in a very steep learning curve this year. New cameras, new software, new techniques. I need time to catch up with what I have and become a better videographer, instead of looking for the latest, greatest.

William Hohauser September 17th, 2012 06:57 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
An interesting paragraph from the official Panasonic press release:


"The DMC-GH3 comes with a variety of connection terminals for more flexible shooting options. The newly added 3.5mm microphone jack allows high quality audio recording using an external microphone. It also comes with a 3.5mm headphone jack enabling monitoring the recorded audio while shooting video real-time. The DMC-GH3 is also capable of real-time image output not only on the OLED display (LVF or the rear monitor) but also on the external monitor via an optional HDMI mini cable simultaneously while recording video. It is suitable for professional video that requires serious monitoring of the imagery. Users can choose to output only the recording content or the content with the setting menus individually depending on the display."

Audio monitoring! But the HDMI part leaves me with a question. Is the 24p HDMI out still messed up or can we now use an external recorder?

Jeff Harper September 17th, 2012 07:20 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Phillp's blog explains very clearly why this camera is an obvious choice and huge upgrade. I'm sold. Can't say I'll buy one, don't really "need" it, but I'd love to have one.

People can tear it apart and critique fine details, but the bottom line is the only folks who won't upgrade are those that cannot afford to or truly do not need the newer cam.

The new cam offers 3.5 jacks, and the increased bulk of the new camera alone is enough for me. I HATE the mini jacks and the tiny size of the current model.

The increased dynamic range of the camera is also a huge selling point, and this was an issue for me on the GH1, it sucked compared to the GH2, there was no comparison.

Phillips blog also reminds me why I still want the 14-35mm F/2.0 lens.

New short film “Genesis” shot on pre-production Panasonic GH3 | Philip Bloom

Bill Koehler September 17th, 2012 10:41 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I think this Panasonic spec. chart answers a lot of questions about codecs.

DMC-GH3 | PRODUCTS | LUMIX | Digital Camera | Panasonic Global

Jeff Harper September 17th, 2012 04:33 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I love that they will be selling a battery grip for this model. The one I had for the GH2 was of low quality.

Terry Wall September 17th, 2012 05:21 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
More buzz from over at Videomaker.com. Glad to hear that Panny put a REAL audio in port and headphone jack on this model. Let's see how the story continues to develop. I do agree with Don, though, that in order to be taken more seriously, Panny should move this camera into the professional domain. At least, that will align with a better customer support/service team.

Panasonic announces the LUMIX GH3 | Videomaker.com

Jeff Harper September 17th, 2012 05:41 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Could any photo camera that is not full frame size could be considered anything more than consumer oriented? This is a consumer camera. I understand that for our own benefit as pro shooters it would be nice to have the benefits of pro gear, but it is not reasonable, IMO, to imagine that a inexpensive camera such as this be considered pro, not by a long stretch. Just my two cents.

Terry Wall September 17th, 2012 06:34 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Alas, Jeff, you're probably right, but one can dream, can't one? And if/when they go to full frame, we can probably expect the price to double.

~TW

Dan Carter September 17th, 2012 07:19 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Seems to me "Pro" relates to the photographer/videographer not the gear.

William Hohauser September 17th, 2012 07:34 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
If this camera was reconfigured say as an AF-200 video camera, that would be in the pro division. A pro video camera doesn't need full frame. On that topic, aside from SDI out, who needs the AF-100 anymore?

Nate Haustein September 17th, 2012 07:52 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by William Hohauser (Post 1753931)
On that topic, aside from SDI out, who needs the AF-100 anymore?

I do. For the NDs, waveforms, zebras, variable frame rates, long-life batteries, XLR inputs, form factor, connection points and video-friendly layout. Don't get me wrong, the GH3 looks awesome and I'd probably pick one up as a B-cam for the 1080p60 alone I just don't think that the image quality will be so much better that I'd be willing to sacrifice the simplicity of a purpose made video camera like the AF100. Shooting on a day-to-day basis (I have a shoot every day this week), the features are just too valuable for me to give up.

HOWEVER! I could see the GH3 working really well as a special purpose cam. One that can be mounted easily for interesting angles, one for steadicam work, one for slider and jib work - anything that cuts down on the amount of heavy duty grip equipment. If the sensor is truly improved as much as people are hearing about, low-light and high-contrast scenes could also benefit from the cam. And if the high-bitrate makes a difference, scenes with lots of motion or fine detail. It would also be nice for me to have a second angle that more or less matches the color and depth of field of the AF100.

Don't tell anyone, but I have my eye on a C100 with a GH3 for the 1080p60. Could be an interesting combo...

Ronald Jackson September 18th, 2012 02:13 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
On "pre-order" offer here in the UK, body only, at 1500 odd, that's about $2,250! We famously get ripped off compared with the US on lots of imported stuff. Okay 20% sales tax (VAT) might not help but a helluva lot for what seems to being marketed as a consumer cam albeit one with a few features appealing to pros or the more serious amateurs. I mean, 23 "Scene Modes" including "Cute Dessert". What the hell's that and who the hell wants it?

I'm interested in one of these, or a hacked GH2, as a lightweight alternative to my XLH1 plus nanoFlash. Wildlife video so I wonder if the GH3 has the "Ex. tele.conv." facility like the GH2 has. No mention in any of the specs I've seen but then according to a friend who has a GH2 there's a lot hidden away (well hidden) in the camera manual which takes a bit of de-constructing. Also like to know how the 50bit or 72bit codec blends into my XDCAM/Pro-Res footage out of my nanoFlash.


Ron

William Hohauser September 18th, 2012 06:06 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Haustein (Post 1753932)
I do. For the NDs, waveforms, zebras, variable frame rates, long-life batteries, XLR inputs, form factor, connection points and video-friendly layout. Don't get me wrong, the GH3 looks awesome and I'd probably pick one up as a B-cam for the 1080p60 alone – I just don't think that the image quality will be so much better that I'd be willing to sacrifice the simplicity of a purpose made video camera like the AF100. Shooting on a day-to-day basis (I have a shoot every day this week), the features are just too valuable for me to give up.

HOWEVER! – I could see the GH3 working really well as a special purpose cam. One that can be mounted easily for interesting angles, one for steadicam work, one for slider and jib work - anything that cuts down on the amount of heavy duty grip equipment. If the sensor is truly improved as much as people are hearing about, low-light and high-contrast scenes could also benefit from the cam. And if the high-bitrate makes a difference, scenes with lots of motion or fine detail. It would also be nice for me to have a second angle that more or less matches the color and depth of field of the AF100.

Many of those items serve me well with my JVC HD cameras but the trade off between the GH2 and AF100 versus the price made the AF100 not worth the expense since I could duplicate most of those functions for less money and get extra lenses. If Panasonic announces an AF200 that includes the improvements of the GH3 yet doesn't raise the price from the AF100, I would be very, very interested. But right now I could get a GH3 body and already have enough lenses but if I can't get a clean HDMI out, nope.

Thomas Smet September 18th, 2012 06:33 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronald Jackson (Post 1753970)
On "pre-order" offer here in the UK, body only, at 1500 odd, that's about $2,250! We famously get ripped off compared with the US on lots of imported stuff. Okay 20% sales tax (VAT) might not help but a helluva lot for what seems to being marketed as a consumer cam albeit one with a few features appealing to pros or the more serious amateurs. I mean, 23 "Scene Modes" including "Cute Dessert". What the hell's that and who the hell wants it?

I'm interested in one of these, or a hacked GH2, as a lightweight alternative to my XLH1 plus nanoFlash. Wildlife video so I wonder if the GH3 has the "Ex. tele.conv." facility like the GH2 has. No mention in any of the specs I've seen but then according to a friend who has a GH2 there's a lot hidden away (well hidden) in the camera manual which takes a bit of de-constructing. Also like to know how the 50bit or 72bit codec blends into my XDCAM/Pro-Res footage out of my nanoFlash.


Ron

On Panasonic's website which lists oodles of details and specs they clearly list ETC working and even have a chart that lists the different factor levels depending on recording format.

Adrian Frearson September 18th, 2012 08:54 AM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
Been following the rumours and release over the last few days. This looks like a really good update to the line and Panasonic are going in the right direction. It really does seem as though they've tried to create a mini AF100 ( minus XLR, ND etc. ) and judging from the videos I've seen, the gradation in the highlights does seem to be improved. Hoping that the new processing/sensor/codec codec helps the banding issue and low light noise. With the lens package, looks a great deal.

On the XLR issue, imaging resource have said that Panasonic will introduce an XLR adapter, which should feed into the 3.5 jack. I guess any XLR adapter will work anyway, but it's another option.

" On "pre-order" offer here in the UK, body only, at 1500 odd, that's about $2,250! "

Wex have it at this price, but the MSRP I've seen is 1099/1200euro body only. Hopefully they'll rectify their "mistake" once they've creamed a few desperate pre orders :-)

Don Litten September 18th, 2012 12:08 PM

Re: GH3: Buzz buzz b-buzz
 
I've been reading about the UK prices. That is waaaaay out of line for that camera.
In 6 months or so it will come down to about $1,000.00 here which is about right.


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