S5 horizontal bar issue at DVinfo.net
DV Info Net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic LUMIX S / G / GF / GH / GX Series

Panasonic LUMIX S / G / GF / GH / GX Series
4K and AVCHD on a Full Frame or Micro Four Thirds system with interchangeable lenses.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 14th, 2021, 04:04 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cambridge MA
Posts: 207
S5 horizontal bar issue

Hi. My S5 has developed a problem with a horizontal bar that rolls up the screen. It's a dark band. I've switched lenses, reset the camera, swapped batteries, turned off the lights - nothing seems to work. I even recorded it to see if it went through to the recording and it did. Has anyone else had this issue or have ideas how I might address it? thx
__________________
Bill Parker
www.hindsightmedia.net
Bill Parker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2021, 04:37 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nowra, Australia
Posts: 429
Re: S5 horizontal bar issue

No takers? Hoping I'm wrong, but my guess is it's something serious, like needing a major electronics fix. Also hope your warranty is still active. I also have an S5, so I'm interested to see any other suggestions and how you get on.
Rainer Listing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2021, 04:55 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,860
Re: S5 horizontal bar issue

Rolling bars are often caused by led lighting that pulses. If the camera sensor read out is slow it shows up as rolling bars.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2021, 09:35 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Cambridge MA
Posts: 207
Re: S5 horizontal bar issue

That's exactly what it was. I just lowered the shutter speed and it went away. Never seen that before. that video was really helpful. Thanks!
__________________
Bill Parker
www.hindsightmedia.net
Bill Parker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2021, 02:02 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nowra, Australia
Posts: 429
Re: S5 horizontal bar issue

That was going to be my suggestion but you said you'd turned off the lights. Glad you got it solved.
Rainer Listing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2021, 07:15 PM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,358
Re: S5 horizontal bar issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Parker View Post
That's exactly what it was. I just lowered the shutter speed and it went away. Never seen that before. that video was really helpful. Thanks!
Basically, if you stick to a shutter speed that matches your power line frequency, 60Hz in the US and 50Hz in most PAL countries which respectively are 60th and 50th of a second or multiples of those like 120th and 100th you shouldn't see those issues. High-frequency lighting can also cause those issues. I've filmed a lot on navy warships and a lot of them run a 400Hz electrical system. This can cause a nasty flicker. If your camera has a function like ClearScan, found on some Sony cameras but also on other brands but under different names, you can incrementally dial in a shutter speed to sync the shutter rate to the lighting frequency.

Another good point to keep in mind is that if you are shooting for a 60Hz production in a 50Hz country bump your shutter speed to 100th as this is a multiple of 50 and you will eliminate the 10Hz frequency flicker that can plague your vision if shot with an off-speed shutter. Conversely shoot at a 60th in 60Hz countries if your production has to be a 25 or 50p production.

Chris Young
Christopher Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2021, 10:26 AM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,860
Re: S5 horizontal bar issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christopher Young View Post
Basically, if you stick to a shutter speed that matches your power line frequency, 60Hz in the US and 50Hz in most PAL countries which respectively are 60th and 50th of a second or multiples of those like 120th and 100th you shouldn't see those issues. High-frequency lighting can also cause those issues. I've filmed a lot on navy warships and a lot of them run a 400Hz electrical system. This can cause a nasty flicker. If your camera has a function like ClearScan, found on some Sony cameras but also on other brands but under different names, you can incrementally dial in a shutter speed to sync the shutter rate to the lighting frequency.

Another good point to keep in mind is that if you are shooting for a 60Hz production in a 50Hz country bump your shutter speed to 100th as this is a multiple of 50 and you will eliminate the 10Hz frequency flicker that can plague your vision if shot with an off-speed shutter. Conversely shoot at a 60th in 60Hz countries if your production has to be a 25 or 50p production.

Chris Young
The issue has less to do with the frequency of the electricity. In my experience it due to inexpensive led lighting. When these lights are dimmed the banding becomes worse. I don't understand completely the mechanics of it and even if you did under certain type of lighting there is very little you can do to fix it. If you're filming an event such as a theater performance or wedding reception it's not an option to light the scene with your lights. If the banding is really bad I've found reducing the shutter speed only changes the rate at which the bars roll. Generally full frame sensors are more susceptible because it takes longer to read out the sensor.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 19th, 2021, 02:57 AM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,358
Re: S5 horizontal bar issue

If the rolling bar interference is due to off frequency LEDs causing the issue, which is often the case with a lot of the nasty cheap LEDs that venues are re-equipping themselves with, is to use cameras with variable scan shutters. Something we have had to do frequently with broadcast cameras for years, since the '80s. Variable frequency shutters. It's the only way around the issue. Though that solution still falls down in venues where they have a couple of different frequency LED frequencies running simultaneously. You can dial one frequency out but not both together. In most situations with single frequencies, I find the answer in mirrorless cameras today is to use a Sony or similar that has a variable scan shutter that can increment up or down in 0.1 Hz steps. Sync the shutter speed with the lighting frequency and your problem goes away.


Chris Young

Example of a variable speed shutter setting on a current Sony a7 series camera is below.
Attached Thumbnails
S5 horizontal bar issue-variable-scan-shutter.jpg  
Christopher Young is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 19th, 2021, 02:11 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,860
Re: S5 horizontal bar issue

Agreed having a camera that has variable shutter and knowing how to access and change those settings is vital if you do a lot of live venue work. Because these bars are near impossible to fix in post.
Pete Cofrancesco is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY USA

Scan Computers Int. Ltd.
+44 0871-472-4747
Bolton, Lancashire UK


DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic LUMIX S / G / GF / GH / GX Series

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:50 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2021 The Digital Video Information Network