Affordable P2 Card reader?
 

We have all read about every possible solution for a card reader, we all have our work-arounds, panasonic has the solution to all our woes,- https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro...ive/index.html
It's the Panasonic AJ-PCD20 five card reader.

BUT, it's well over priced for our budgets,

SO, why don't we ask Panasonic to produce a "cut-down 2 Card version unit" for us little folk who need to read their P2 cards , bearing in mind we are not in the "broadcast" league but still need a relativley priced solution to a very basic problem.
Panasonic would sell thousands of these units if they were priced at a level where it would be considered "affordable".

Let's face it, it is a simple "card reader", not a VTR, or a HDD unit, so why does it cost one third the price of a HVX200, when the components to manufacture one would cost maybe $400 .
the selling price on B&H is $1899.99-
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._P2_Drive.html

Come on Panasonic, make a cut-down 2 slot that we can afford at say under $1k and they'll fly like eagles out the door.
OR
some other manufacturer take on a challenge and reap the rewards.

Tom K

No need for those super duper P2 card readers ... just use a normal notebook with standard PCMCIA (or PC-CARD) slot will do. You just need to install the device driver (download from Panasonic website) and you will have it - all raring to go. That's the cheapest one I can think of - FOC - provided you have a notebook which I think most of us should own one.

Hi TingSern

That's satisfies your needs, but a P2 card reader as I was refering to will be compatible with ALL computers, towers/lappies Mac and Windows ect.
USB and firewire connection that's the key.

Cheers Tom K

Buy a cheap PC laptop, dump the files to external HDD's formated to the FAT 32 format, and you have your files ready to share on both mac and PC's. P2 cards are FAT32 compliant.

I do understand your plea, though. just not seeing it happen.

I wonder whether those USB tethered PCMCIA card readers will do double duty as a P2 card reader as well? That could solve Tom's problems. Just install the device driver from Pany's website?

P2 store actually is a p2 reader. But the slowest reader I've ever seen. it takes at least 7x the time of a normal pcmia transfer. Terrible.

Don't forget Tom, you already have a 2-card reader on-hand - the camera itself.

I still wish they'd come out with like a 250 gig P2 Store or something. I love having the P2 Store in the field.

OK, there are lots of varing viewpoints out there, Now with the Increased size of P2 cards ie 32gig, the ammount of field off loading for many users is not as great. A Single card reader as the -http://www.amtron.com/reader/p2card_reader.htm
BUT, with a PCIe controller not the current PCI controller that would slot into a G5 would be great.
my smaller commercial shoots are like this usually under 30mins, with the 32 gig it fits all onto one card.
I have asked amtron but am still waiting for a reply.
Cheers
Tom K

I shoot on 720p exclusively. No point shooting at 1080i. No visual difference. With a 16GB P2 card - I get 34 minutes. With a 32GB P2 - 69 minutes. I put in 2 32GB P2 - more than 2 hours continuous shooting. It's more than enough - I am not doing events but documentaries.

I have P2 Store ... but the silly fellow won't be able to offload 2 32GB anyway. Only 1 32GB - P2 Store is already going the way of the dodos (a pity). The speed of the P2 Store card reader does not matter to me - because I only accesses it once - namely to copy all the clips in my P2 card to my editing computer's RAID hard drives. Once it is inside the hard drives, I disconnect the P2 store.

A one or two card reader for the Mac would be most excellent and I'd shell out for it. pci-e or usb or firewire. I don't really care.

I've got the PC laptop for the field but I'd like to stop using the camera to offload when we're not out in the field

Nothing to talk against the inexpensive card slot here, but I purchased bunch of P2 cards and the PCD20. Prior to that, I was trying to get by with few cards and portable drives and tried many ways. However, I got tired of them not working so well under real world video shooting situation.

When I purchased HPX, I had to make a decision because I was going to rental as workable set. I was debating to buy Focus, P2 drive or the PCD20. I gave a lot thoughts deciding and I decided to buy six P2 cards and PCD20 first because I have HVX and HPX that both needs P2 cards. Also, I have Mac Book Pro and Lacie little big disk hat I could connect the PCD20 (with Tekkon Battery pack) which offer most massive backup possibility possible.

The result is, so far so well. I just did shot a 160 minute live performance (4 bands) with three cams, covering the whole performance with HPX and HV20, HVX to be used as handheld and capture only parts. Whole performance fit without no margin (wish I took my 3 4GB cards along).
I came back and packed up to five P2 cards to PCD20 and it took about one hour to copy everything over to the hard disk drive (including the last sixth card). The good point here is that the copy can be done unattended up to five cards. That gives me an hour of doing something else instead of attending in front of computer to swap the cards or come back every 10 minutes.

I do think PCD20 should be cheaper, too, but after you get it, it provides you so much. I have the duel adapter and the PCD20, so they are covering pretty much every situations that I need, but I do wish someone comes out with firewire cards slot for me to rent it along with the cams.

Additional "pros" on PCD20:
When you mount P2 cards using PCD20, the software driver adds the PCD20's slot number along with the mounted volume icon on the desktop that helps to identify which card you are working on.

Only problem is the cost of the PCD20 is super expensive. For the independent or single person production shop - I can't see how they can afford it.

I actually bought everything on my own (I don't buy other expensive stuff) with loan. When you put together a loan, tend to select everything and forget about the high price. But after arm yourself with complete rig and everthing just take off.

Tingsern, 720p is not the same as 1080p in the HVX. If you have a mac, do this simple test:

1st- Shoot a scene in both 1080- and 720p. I would suggest a close up scene to someone, or a wide panorama.

2-Create a 1080i50 timeline and select "no fields" in the sequence options.

3- Import P2, or use the new import screen of 6.0 (still happy in 5.1.2)

4- Use media manager (File/media manager) to Uprezz the 720p footage to 1080i50. Place it in the timeline, and place the native 1080 25p footage next to the uprezzed one.

5- See the difference!

Sergio, not sure what HVX202 you are referring to - but, unless yours is a super duper version, my poor HVX202 can't shoot 1080p !!! Only 720p and 1080i :-).

I am not referring to using a computer monitor to test. Nobody views movies on computer screens, right? Try viewing a 720p footage against a 1080i footage on a real TV at the standard viewing distance ... very few people can tell the difference.

If you refer to my initial note, I said "no visual difference". I didn't say "no difference". That's the difference - ha ha.

TingSern: I agree - at the outset of my current project I did numerous tests and decided on 720/24pn, primarily to conserve card space (although I have 6 16g cards) since the difference was, to me, negligeable...

Now let me qualify that statement - those of us "old-school" cinematographers that have drawers full of complete sets of ProMists, Black ProMists, SoftFX and Diffusion filters don't judge the aesthetic look of an image by resolution alone.. there is a tactile feeling that sometimes/often comes with an intentional degradation of the image.. call it "film look" if you want, but since I learned to do it while actually shooting film I think that's a mistaken phrase...

Now, if I was shooting wide landscapes of the Rockies I might opt for the highest resolution, cleanest image possible. But I don't do that (often), and for most of my type of shooting, 720 looks as good and sometimes better...

Also, to further qualify my opinion, don't like IMAX either - so, again, it's often a subjective call...

Steve, welcome to my world :-). That's exactly what I did as well. I asked the clients themselves. I shoot 2 minutes video on 720p, and another 2 minutes on 1080i - of the identical scenes ... detailed scenes (inside a tropical rainforest national park). I then played it back to them on their 34" Sanyo HD TV (after minimal processing) - none of them could tell the difference. But, when I played a SD video of the same scene, "Ah ... that one is not so sharp" ... I think it has to do with our eyes as well. On a normal sized TV at normal viewing distances, HD (whether 720p or 1080i) compared with SD - is vastly superior. But when we compare HD itself (between 720p and 1080i) - it might be the TV that is doing the trick - I don't know - but, I did the test myself numerous times - using Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony, etc - consumer grade HD TV - all looks the same ... very sharp (that is).

Of course, when P2 card prices fall to within 10% - 20% of an equivalent Sandisk Extreme 3 CF price - I will buy 4 128GB cards and maybe, 1080i be the norm. Until that day happens, I will stick to 720p.

TingSern, our HVX DOES record 1080p, but in an "i" cadence. Doesn't make sense, does it? Well, picture it like this:

Interlace is made by two half frames, in order to achieve the 50 " reality look" perceivable frames. What Panasonic does is "cheat" the 50i codec to " think" there are 50 half frames, were in fact there are 25 FULL Frames. So you do have 1080 25p, but in a 50i codec. That's all the bandwith is capable for on the dvcprohd PAL 1080i configuration. In NTSC you can get up to 30p. The 24pa everybody discusses here is a different work altogether, because it requires a special pulldown in ntsc, of course.

Anyway, do try the test I posted, and see the results...

Sergio, I didn't know that. Thanks for the education. Okay - when I am free, I will try out your test and see ... will let you know.

Ok, so back to the thread topic.

Im looking for a reliable P2 offloader for run n gun shooting. I might be shooting pikes peak with my MBP on me and an external drive. Well, thats what I want to take since i own all of that already. I dont want to use my 500 to transfer and I have already ran into problems trying to get footage off the cam and not having any other way to transfer besides the camera im shooting with. I know the Duel adapter works....sometimes....so we need to get a real Pani P2 reader. Shouldnt be more than 250 bucks. Its just an interface device.

Hi everybody,

You ALREADY have a dirt cheap, and 100% reliable P2 card reader in every notebook today ... it is called PCMCIA or PC Card slots. My Lenovo's Thinkpad T60 comes with 2 slots as standard. Just install the software driver into Windows XP and .... presto. No need for external readers / Panny's priced to heaven P2 readers - for off trail usage.

We all wish that an inexpensive , simple, card reader was out there, for Mac's n PC's. BUT It is'nt.
I set up a IBM thinkpad to do the off loading in field. and use the camera's USB to download to my Macpro, when i win lotto I will get a panasonic reader until then, my IBM will do.
Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

It might help to look at this way:

P2 media was from the outset designed for professional use, not prosumer/consumer. Unfortunately because it's a solid-state type of media it's all too often associated with CF and SD-type cards (and probably because it is HQ-SD at it's heart). But in point of fact it's not consumer-grade media nor consumer-purpose driven, it's for pro use.

To that end it's illogical to assume that the interface for it would be in the same cost-structure as consumer media. Nobody expects a DVCPRO-HD deck to be at the same price-point as a consumer DV/HDV deck, the same applies to P2.

Consider the cost of the least expensive DVCPRO-HD deck, then compare the P2 reader. The P2 reader is still DVCPRO-HD-capable, right? But at a fraction of the cost.

It's the old addage: if you want to play, you gotta pay. And when you consider that P2 gives you the exact same capabilities as the tape-based system (and more) at several price-points lower... I mean really. Stop the whining. Get the gear, make your money and be happy you did it for far less cash outlay than you ever could have 5 years ago.

Hello Robert,
Agreed, but,
One would expect that if Pana produced a low cost P2 camera as the HVX200 for the "Masses" then you would assume that associated low cost P2 card readers would follow ?.
Agreed that Professional level users will shell out and get what's needed in a "total" camera package purchase, but there are many more in the "masses" that cannot justify the cost to that level. Both viewpoints should to be respected.
In My area a Cheap laptop with a PC card reader will set you back about $1000 brand new, compare that to a Pana card reader at over $3000, the laptop is far better value.
IF Amtrons PCMCIA card reader would work in a G5 and the Newer Macpro's, then there would not be all this discussion and rants.
Is there anyone out there that can "write Firmware" to make the Amtron Card reader be OS Leopard Capable ?. it would stop many of these posts.
Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

i do not know, but i simply googled for "pcmcia usb card reader" and found dozen of them for the cheapest starting at around 50$.
is there a string attached ? (drivers compatibility ?)
i just added P2 to the search string and got this
http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/pci-to-...er-p29790.htmlhttp://www.psism.com/reader.htm#PCI
http://www.amtron.com/reader/p2card_reader.htm
http://www.shopdigi.com/product.aspx?pf_id=DUEL
http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/express...er-p29850.html
for less than $100, it seems not so expensive

so seems there is a lot of cheap solution for PCI, expresscard etc...
but yes you are right, many product are offering P2 reading only for PCs, not Macs.
if you got only PCIe on your machine you still can convert a regular PCI card to PCIe with this
http://virtuavia.eu/shop/pci-express...er-p29855.html
while there is a PCIe PCMCIA card, but not sure if it reads P2, while they got something for windows http://pccard.co.uk/support/pfaq/sramwin.php
http://pccard.co.uk/adapter/e111.php

Hello Giroud,
I've tested all those, the virtuavia, sounds like a great solution, BUT, it works with PC's and PCIe Mac's, it can only read one installed PCI card at a time. (it's useless).
It works on my Macpro when using Bootcamp Windows XP launch. OS leopard won't see the Cardbus reader.
The Firmware/Driver is the issue, if that was available we would have a $4-$600 P2 card reader. Pana is bringing out a PCIe to 5 card reader, but i believe it will be priced at the same level as the current USB/ firewire reader.
Mac's all have a IDE Optical connector, Nirvana would be a two slot reader that connects to the IDE cable and Firmware for OS leopard .and In the Macpro just mount in the spare optical bay. OR, a SATA connector reader .
I have an Amtron set-up in my old G4 works great, G5 and Macpro you have to spend the dollars.
Beware of Elan cards, the're cards don't work, I have tested them, and they have up on their site the PCIe Cardbus reader the E111, that card dosen't exist except on their site, it's a dead end mock up, Just ask one of their dealers, I wasted lots of phone calls on that one.
Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

Get a laptop with gigabit ethernet and you've got your answer. You can connect to any computer (Mac or PC) and actually see the PCMCIA slot as an external drive over the network. Check out this article for how to do it:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=137738

Hi David,

Yes. I've "been there done that", my lappy has slow ethernet speed , but, it does work all the same. I have read that post, it's a very usefull way to get p2 into Mac.
Everyone who has P2 has varying needs and varying studio/field set-ups, no single solution will fit all those varying set-ups.

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

I disagree with the statement the HVX200 is a "low cost P2 camera". It is definitely not low cost from the "Masses" point of view. From the pro's viewpoint, it is "low cost" (S$8K vs S$30K). But, I doubt anybody from the consumer's viewpoint will consider HVX200 even "medium cost". A Sony HDV camera costing S$2K to S$3K will be about the maximum a consumer will pay for a video camera.

Hello Tingsern,

I say "low cost" as my last six or so cameras were all well over $15000AUD each for the heads only. yes Pro's , well I suppose I'm in that groove, that's why I slot the HVX200 into the "Low Cost" camera category, I'm sorry if you are offended. Maybe I should have used, "P2 Entry Level".

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

Heh Tom,

No offense at all. Just pointing to everybody that HVX200 is not exactly "low cost" video camera for the masses. It is a Professional video camera that happens to be priced at the "low" end of the price range.

Hi TingSern,

Yes they are a very nice piece of gear, recently I convinced a client of mine to get the Latest HVX200A , he had been using an old Sony little 3 chip camera prior , after his first shoot and loading, then editing the P2 files , he gave his old Sony to his son to play with.
He's now a very happy man.

cheers from the bush
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

Tom,

Hope your client don't start complaining to you about the high cost of P2 cards :-).

As a matter of fact he did ask me why they where so Pricey, jokingly I told him "we have to keep the manufacturers in the lifestyle there accustomed too".
I can understand his comment when comparing a 60 min DV tape at roughly $4. I went on to tell him P2 cards can be re written many many many times, and he only has to buy them once, that made him happy.

Panasonic would make thousands more P2 users happy by producing a cut down 2 card reader at say under $1000. that's my christmas wish to Panasonic.

Cheers
Tom K

Tom,

Even at $1K, I doubt many people will want to pay for that. The PC-Card slot in my IBM Thinkpad T60 is a fantastic P2 card reader - and it is free :-).

P2 reader
 

I'm new to all this.
I was hoping out there somewhere is a P2 reader for a Mac that I could just plug in and transfer the images on my card into my computer.
Based on the previous threads, it doesn't sound like that's the case.
Is that really the case?

Hi Noah,
Lots of discussion on P2 card readers, everyone has different expectations, and differing views on what is reasonable cost, Lots of info on my site--
O-line Video Productions - Home Page
If your on a Macpro with PCIe theres a new reader on the horizion from Sonnettech, the QIO. that info is too on my site and posted on some forums. Hopefully It will be the card reader to take us "solid state users" into the future.
cheapest way is to get an old Windows lappy and network to your mac. If your Mac is an old G4 with PCI then you could use the Amtron reader, as long as your on Tiger 10.4.8 no later.
Leopard and Intel Macpros are designed for expresscards so don't expect any easy solutions there.

Cheers
Tom K
olinevideo.com.au

This is true. But if you are on a MacBook Pro, find a duel adapter and install P2 CMS and transfer that way. There are plenty of threads on that work-flow around here....

Sonnet's Qio looks just great and can be used for SxS cars too and maybe SDHC cards.
What I cannot see, is if if will work under windows too ??