So does having a Tape Drive mean Panasonic don't trust their coveted P2?? at DVinfo.net

Shannon Rawls · April 17th, 2005, 06:04 PM

Just curious..... I mean, all the fuss over P2 THIS, and new way to work THAT, and its the future THIS, and tape must die THAT.....just to find out it has a tape drive ALSO????

Why not pure P2?? why bother with a tape drive?? What happened to the "No moving parts???" speil??

I mean I surely hope it has a tape drive and I surely hope I can record HD on that tape (at least 720p) ...and I will be a sure buyer when it comes out because the specs on this camera is unbeatable and the price is EXTREMELY INEXPENSIVE for what it offers (only if it records HD to tape that is). To argue that would be utter stupidity......... but my question is....... why does it have tape at all?? What?? Panasonic don't trust their P2 technology?
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Sidenote: its funny to see how people quickly change their views/beliefs and blindly ride the bandwagon on certain things. I mean, stand up for what you say in here. Barry Green does. Chris Hurd does. Graeme Nattress does. Mike Tiffee and Christopher does. I do. A few others do. But I am noticing many people are all of a sudden "OK" with things they weren't ok with last week. It's like 2 weeks ago you'll be arguing one point with me, and then all of a sudden TODAY it's ALL GOOD.
For instance, TAPE MUST DIE you said last week....now...you're happy that it got a tape transport.
For instance, ITS GONNA BE A GORGEOUS CAMERA....now....your singing the "Looks aren't everything" song. Because face it...that is one ugly ass camera, you gotta admit. lol
and just a few other tid bits, Ya know?? Anyhow, i digress, the internet makes people bold i suppose.
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Back to the topic......

Why the tape transport?? Why not stand behind P2 and drop Tape all together? Gives me that "you don't trust your own stuff" feeling.
I for one am HAPPY that it has TAPE. P2 just doesn't seem feasible for Indie moviemaking, in my humble opinion.

Your thoughts guys?

- Shannon W. Rawls

Sorry, I couldnt make it to NAB to meet all the wonderful people I have been speaking with in emails and on these forums who I previously said I would like to meet. I am on set shooting a film called "SPENT" today thru Wednesday. You know how it goes.....*smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

Chris Hurd · April 17th, 2005, 06:09 PM

Shannon, I was really looking forward to meeting you! Hopefully that'll happen on one of my L.A. trips in the near future.

I think Panasonic wants this camera to appeal to the broadest possible market. Putting a tape drive on the HVX200 insures that even those folks who are not ready to adopt P2 will consider it anyway.

R Geoff Baker · April 17th, 2005, 06:21 PM

Also nice that it can be used to play back that shelf full of DV tapes I've already got ...

GB

Barry Green · April 17th, 2005, 06:30 PM

Well, you could ask the same about the Z1: Does Sony's making it capable of recording DV mean they don't trust their coveted HDV?

That's a silly question. Obviously the answer is: it's all about choices, compatibility, and options. If you get a job where the producer asks you to hand over a DV tape, do you really want to look at your brand new $5,000 Z1 or $6,000 HVX and say "nope, can't do it?" Of course not. That's why these cameras offer DV recording to tape: it's a proven established paying workflow, and will help transition to a possible HD future.

Luis Caffesse · April 17th, 2005, 06:56 PM

"Why the tape transport?? Why not stand behind P2 and drop Tape all together? Gives me that "you don't trust your own stuff" feeling.

My guess is it's just economics.

I'm sure a lot of people would not have bought the camera if it was ONLY P2.

BUT...very few people will not buy because it has a tape drive, they just won't use the tape drive.

So, Panasonic probably figured it was safer to expand the market, and treat this as a "trasition" camera.

Personally, I would have rather seen no tape drive, and more P2 slots.
But, I'll probably still buy a camera (see what I mean?)

Also, another angle....
If it didn't have a tape transport, Panasonic would have to include a P2 card in the box with the camera. A tape transport is probably cheaper than it would be to include a P2 card with each camera...so in the end they can sell the camera cheaper, so the overall perceived cost is cheaper to the buyer.

"Hey, it's only 6k!"
(but it comes with no P2 cards)

Don't get me wrong, i'm not slamming them on the price...I'm still amazed.

Dylan Pank · April 18th, 2005, 05:22 AM

Shannon,

a Person's opinions can change...

so how long are you prepared to stand by your statements regarding 720p as an inferior format compared to 1080i and only to be chosen for economic reasons?

miniDV is the only format that this camera will record to tape. All other formats will be recorded to P2 or a compatible hard drive. So all the statements about leaving tape behind still stand for those using this as a HD camera.

Shannon Rawls · April 18th, 2005, 08:35 AM

I understand Dylan....just sayin' ya know....wishy washy people urk me, that's all.

However, I stand FIRM on 1080i over 720p as the #1 format for broadcast television over 720p!! Without a doubt I stand firm on that!!! :

- I believe 1080i will be the majority standard for Broadcast Television throughout the entire world and will remain to be until a HIGHER resultion option becomes available.

Notice the key words..... Hence, the introduction of 1080p. *smile*

Now I may be getting the JVC HD100U. But not because of its wack 720p....actually if I don't get it it'll be because of that! If i do get it it'll be because of its other features like uncompressed audio and removable lens and viewfinder and shoulder mounting and its pretty looks and its 6-pin firewire port which eludes to off-the-shelf direct to hard drive recording instead of firestore and stuff like that. I HATE THE FACT THAT ITS ONLY 720p, but may comprimise because of those other reasons.

see what i mean my brutha? *smile*

- Shannon W. Rawls

April 17th, 2005, 06:09 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Shannon, I was really looking forward to meeting you! Hopefully that'll happen on one of my L.A. trips in the near future. I think Panasonic wants this camera to appeal to the broadest possible market. Putting a tape drive on the HVX200 insures that even those folks who are not ready to adopt P2 will consider it anyway. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 17th, 2005, 06:56 PM	#5
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"Why the tape transport?? Why not stand behind P2 and drop Tape all together? Gives me that "you don't trust your own stuff" feeling. My guess is it's just economics. I'm sure a lot of people would not have bought the camera if it was ONLY P2. BUT...very few people will not buy because it has a tape drive, they just won't use the tape drive. So, Panasonic probably figured it was safer to expand the market, and treat this as a "trasition" camera. Personally, I would have rather seen no tape drive, and more P2 slots. But, I'll probably still buy a camera (see what I mean?) Also, another angle.... If it didn't have a tape transport, Panasonic would have to include a P2 card in the box with the camera. A tape transport is probably cheaper than it would be to include a P2 card with each camera...so in the end they can sell the camera cheaper, so the overall perceived cost is cheaper to the buyer. "Hey, it's only 6k!" (but it comes with no P2 cards) Don't get me wrong, i'm not slamming them on the price...I'm still amazed. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

April 17th, 2005, 06:04 PM	#1
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	So does having a Tape Drive mean Panasonic don't trust their coveted P2?? Just curious..... I mean, all the fuss over P2 THIS, and new way to work THAT, and its the future THIS, and tape must die THAT.....just to find out it has a tape drive ALSO???? Why not pure P2?? why bother with a tape drive?? What happened to the "No moving parts???" speil?? I mean I surely hope it has a tape drive and I surely hope I can record HD on that tape (at least 720p) ...and I will be a sure buyer when it comes out because the specs on this camera is unbeatable and the price is EXTREMELY INEXPENSIVE for what it offers (only if it records HD to tape that is). To argue that would be utter stupidity......... but my question is....... why does it have tape at all?? What?? Panasonic don't trust their P2 technology? ____________________________________ Sidenote: its funny to see how people quickly change their views/beliefs and blindly ride the bandwagon on certain things. I mean, stand up for what you say in here. Barry Green does. Chris Hurd does. Graeme Nattress does. Mike Tiffee and Christopher does. I do. A few others do. But I am noticing many people are all of a sudden "OK" with things they weren't ok with last week. It's like 2 weeks ago you'll be arguing one point with me, and then all of a sudden TODAY it's ALL GOOD. For instance, TAPE MUST DIE you said last week....now...you're happy that it got a tape transport. For instance, ITS GONNA BE A GORGEOUS CAMERA....now....your singing the "Looks aren't everything" song. Because face it...that is one ugly ass camera, you gotta admit. lol and just a few other tid bits, Ya know?? Anyhow, i digress, the internet makes people bold i suppose. ____________________________________ Back to the topic...... Why the tape transport?? Why not stand behind P2 and drop Tape all together? Gives me that "you don't trust your own stuff" feeling. I for one am HAPPY that it has TAPE. P2 just doesn't seem feasible for Indie moviemaking, in my humble opinion. Your thoughts guys? - Shannon W. Rawls Sorry, I couldnt make it to NAB to meet all the wonderful people I have been speaking with in emails and on these forums who I previously said I would like to meet. I am on set shooting a film called "SPENT" today thru Wednesday. You know how it goes.....smile - ShannonRawls.com

April 17th, 2005, 06:21 PM	#3
R Geoff Baker Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 471	Also nice that it can be used to play back that shelf full of DV tapes I've already got ... GB

April 17th, 2005, 06:30 PM	#4
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Well, you could ask the same about the Z1: Does Sony's making it capable of recording DV mean they don't trust their coveted HDV? That's a silly question. Obviously the answer is: it's all about choices, compatibility, and options. If you get a job where the producer asks you to hand over a DV tape, do you really want to look at your brand new $5,000 Z1 or $6,000 HVX and say "nope, can't do it?" Of course not. That's why these cameras offer DV recording to tape: it's a proven established paying workflow, and will help transition to a possible HD future.

April 18th, 2005, 05:22 AM	#6
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	Shannon, a Person's opinions can change... so how long are you prepared to stand by your statements regarding 720p as an inferior format compared to 1080i and only to be chosen for economic reasons? miniDV is the only format that this camera will record to tape. All other formats will be recorded to P2 or a compatible hard drive. So all the statements about leaving tape behind still stand for those using this as a HD camera.

April 18th, 2005, 08:35 AM	#7
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	I understand Dylan....just sayin' ya know....wishy washy people urk me, that's all. However, I stand FIRM on 1080i over 720p as the #1 format for broadcast television over 720p!! Without a doubt I stand firm on that!!! : - I believe 1080i will be the majority standard for Broadcast Television throughout the entire world and will remain to be until a HIGHER resultion option becomes available. Notice the key words..... Hence, the introduction of 1080p. smile Now I may be getting the JVC HD100U. But not because of its wack 720p....actually if I don't get it it'll be because of that! If i do get it it'll be because of its other features like uncompressed audio and removable lens and viewfinder and shoulder mounting and its pretty looks and its 6-pin firewire port which eludes to off-the-shelf direct to hard drive recording instead of firestore and stuff like that. I HATE THE FACT THAT ITS ONLY 720p, but may comprimise because of those other reasons. see what i mean my brutha? smile - Shannon W. Rawls