Format advice for upcoming shoot? at DVinfo.net

Niels Neeskens · October 31st, 2009, 10:55 AM

Hey everyone,

I have an upcoming shoot for a commercial for national Television, so a big deal for me. The shoot is going to be in a studio (normally for photography) with the use of a white background (round wall I think it's called). Just like in the MAC vs. PC commercials.

I am going to shoot in HD with the Letus 35 extreme and it's going to be wide-shots and close-ups but not to much movement in it. I will use a 32 G and 4GB P2 card (4 GB just because I have it :). I am still in doubt about which format I will use and there are no request from the client.

720p/50p, 720p/25p, 1080i/50i or 1080i/25p? What format would you recommend for this shoot?

Barry Green · October 31st, 2009, 11:43 AM

What deliverable format does your client want it in? If they want it in 1080, shoot it in 1080. If they want it in 720, shoot it in 720.

If they want SD, you could shoot DVCPRO50, but if you want to shoot HD anyway you would probably be better off shooting a progressive format, not 1080i.

Second major question is: do they want the film look or the video look?

Assuming the film look, that makes your main choices 1080/25p or 720/25pN.

If they want the video look, you'd be choosing between 1080/50i and 720/50p.

Marcello Mazzilli · October 31st, 2009, 04:54 PM

If you have no input from the client (BUT YOU SHOULD!) I'd go for the 1080/50i

99:1 i bet the final distribution will probably be SD and by shooting interlaced HD you leave open all the possibilities. You can downsize to SD Progressive or SD interlaced and you have HD interlaced.
The only possibility you are not covering in this way is HD Progressive. In fact you can interpolate afterwards from 1080/50i to 1080/25p but as I said it will be interpolating and not real resolution.

Still I think this is the best solution. If you shoot in HD 25p you'll never get back the field (that is 1/50th of a second) information, neither in SD or HD

Niels Neeskens · November 1st, 2009, 09:41 AM

Well the thing is that the only input I got is that they want the best quality possible :) It's a pretty big company but they never did a commercial yet. There is a advertising agency in between and they don't know anything about formats as well, so it's up to me.

It's probably going to end up in SD like you said Marcello, so that's good advice thank you. But HD is a fashion thing lately, so even if it's not necessary to shoot in HD, it's to satisfied the client who can say that the shoot is in HD :)

I always prefer the film look and shoot as much progressive as possible.

Gary Nattrass · November 3rd, 2009, 03:30 AM

I just did a commercial for TV on the 301 and we did it at 1080i 25np using pre-set 5 to get a nice filmic look.

The client was very happy with the pictures but as stated it is best to shoot in the delivery format required.

Giuseppe Pugliese · November 10th, 2009, 04:40 PM

you want 1080 25p you will limit yourself greatly if you are using a different rate. Most high end commercials are shot on 35mm film at 24p(usa) 25p(UK) then scanned and bounced down to 2k 24p or 25p masters, edited and then shipped to the agency to air on all different types of networks. but 720 is really ok too, but it depends on the capability of the agency. You can always res down from 1080 in post

If this is a REAL deal project you should never get turned down for having 25p footage as for big car commercials, cell phone commercials, beer commercials and more are all shot on 35mm @25 fps

You should really get in contact with the cable station it will be sent to.

Niels Neeskens · January 22nd, 2010, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Nattrass

I just did a commercial for TV on the 301 and we did it at 1080i 25np using pre-set 5 to get a nice filmic look.

The client was very happy with the pictures but as stated it is best to shoot in the delivery format required.

Is the pre-set 5 on the 301 the same as on the HVX200?

By the way, the test-shoot is done and Tuesday the real shoot, in 1080 25P

Gary Nattrass · January 22nd, 2010, 02:51 PM

I dont know if the pre sets are the same but my cine gamma is a modified BBC set-up, if you send me your e-mail details I will post you the BBC recommended settings for the 301.

The final commercial is here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhVxHNRdz4
With the behind the scenes shot on a canon HF11 here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1o1aE9OkHw

Dan Brockett · January 22nd, 2010, 07:25 PM

Hi Niels:

On another note, why go through the light loss and increased hassle of shooting a 35mm adapter when you essentially will have no DOF with a white cyc BG?

As far as format, my vote goes for 1080 25p.

I shot a short film in December with five kids against a white cyc with the HPX170 and using my Letus would have not made sense, no advantage to it.

Dan

Niels Neeskens · January 23rd, 2010, 08:07 AM

Thanks Gary and Dan,

Gray, I'll send you my email, thanks a lot for the trouble. By the way, the commercial looks great! Funny stuff.

Dan, the actual shoot is without the 35 mm adapter, was no advantage in the test shoot. On the contrary, the loss of light was a disadvantage.

Cheers

October 31st, 2009, 10:55 AM	#1
Niels Neeskens Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Almelo Posts: 177	Format advice for upcoming shoot? Hey everyone, I have an upcoming shoot for a commercial for national Television, so a big deal for me. The shoot is going to be in a studio (normally for photography) with the use of a white background (round wall I think it's called). Just like in the MAC vs. PC commercials. I am going to shoot in HD with the Letus 35 extreme and it's going to be wide-shots and close-ups but not to much movement in it. I will use a 32 G and 4GB P2 card (4 GB just because I have it :). I am still in doubt about which format I will use and there are no request from the client. 720p/50p, 720p/25p, 1080i/50i or 1080i/25p? What format would you recommend for this shoot?

November 3rd, 2009, 03:30 AM	#5
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	I just did a commercial for TV on the 301 and we did it at 1080i 25np using pre-set 5 to get a nice filmic look. The client was very happy with the pictures but as stated it is best to shoot in the delivery format required. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

January 22nd, 2010, 02:51 PM	#8
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	I dont know if the pre sets are the same but my cine gamma is a modified BBC set-up, if you send me your e-mail details I will post you the BBC recommended settings for the 301. The final commercial is here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEhVxHNRdz4 With the behind the scenes shot on a canon HF11 here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1o1aE9OkHw __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

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October 31st, 2009, 11:43 AM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	What deliverable format does your client want it in? If they want it in 1080, shoot it in 1080. If they want it in 720, shoot it in 720. If they want SD, you could shoot DVCPRO50, but if you want to shoot HD anyway you would probably be better off shooting a progressive format, not 1080i. Second major question is: do they want the film look or the video look? Assuming the film look, that makes your main choices 1080/25p or 720/25pN. If they want the video look, you'd be choosing between 1080/50i and 720/50p.

October 31st, 2009, 04:54 PM	#3
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	If you have no input from the client (BUT YOU SHOULD!) I'd go for the 1080/50i 99:1 i bet the final distribution will probably be SD and by shooting interlaced HD you leave open all the possibilities. You can downsize to SD Progressive or SD interlaced and you have HD interlaced. The only possibility you are not covering in this way is HD Progressive. In fact you can interpolate afterwards from 1080/50i to 1080/25p but as I said it will be interpolating and not real resolution. Still I think this is the best solution. If you shoot in HD 25p you'll never get back the field (that is 1/50th of a second) information, neither in SD or HD

November 1st, 2009, 09:41 AM	#4
Niels Neeskens Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Almelo Posts: 177	Well the thing is that the only input I got is that they want the best quality possible :) It's a pretty big company but they never did a commercial yet. There is a advertising agency in between and they don't know anything about formats as well, so it's up to me. It's probably going to end up in SD like you said Marcello, so that's good advice thank you. But HD is a fashion thing lately, so even if it's not necessary to shoot in HD, it's to satisfied the client who can say that the shoot is in HD :) I always prefer the film look and shoot as much progressive as possible.

November 10th, 2009, 04:40 PM	#6
Giuseppe Pugliese Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 392	you want 1080 25p you will limit yourself greatly if you are using a different rate. Most high end commercials are shot on 35mm film at 24p(usa) 25p(UK) then scanned and bounced down to 2k 24p or 25p masters, edited and then shipped to the agency to air on all different types of networks. but 720 is really ok too, but it depends on the capability of the agency. You can always res down from 1080 in post If this is a REAL deal project you should never get turned down for having 25p footage as for big car commercials, cell phone commercials, beer commercials and more are all shot on 35mm @25 fps You should really get in contact with the cable station it will be sent to.

January 22nd, 2010, 07:25 PM	#9
Dan Brockett Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 2,109	Hi Niels: On another note, why go through the light loss and increased hassle of shooting a 35mm adapter when you essentially will have no DOF with a white cyc BG? As far as format, my vote goes for 1080 25p. I shot a short film in December with five kids against a white cyc with the HPX170 and using my Letus would have not made sense, no advantage to it. Dan

January 23rd, 2010, 08:07 AM	#10
Niels Neeskens Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Almelo Posts: 177	Thanks Gary and Dan, Gray, I'll send you my email, thanks a lot for the trouble. By the way, the commercial looks great! Funny stuff. Dan, the actual shoot is without the 35 mm adapter, was no advantage in the test shoot. On the contrary, the loss of light was a disadvantage. Cheers