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August 26th, 2010, 01:14 PM | #31 |
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August 27th, 2010, 06:29 AM | #32 | |
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I dont want to deal with down loading cards but have had more requests for P2 than XDCAM (pretty much zero,although I thought it would take over the world). I think for my market its going 1080p native... and I dont know why but Iam getting requests for P2 and not XDCAM.. that leaves 3700 or 3000.. both quite big and eat batteries.. 3100 looks a good product.. slo mo will have to be done in post.. time lapse.. maybe 3100 has this function HDX900 does or Stills camera.. or nanoflash.. I dunno but 3100 seems a good deal? |
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August 27th, 2010, 08:11 AM | #33 | |
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Which is "best"? Personally, I think that's a silly question. The PDW700 gives superb results as far as quality is concerned, I expect the 3100 to be the same. If you need 720p, the PDW700 is the obvious winner (as Steve points out.), Disc based recording may be seen as a good thing - or a bad thing. It depends what you're doing. It still gives file based workflows and forms it's own backup - but at the expense of power consumption, size and weight. There are differences between the cameras - but I wouldn't like to say either is the "best" - not if the cost is the same. But is this the only 2/3" camera to come from Panasonic this IBC? There seems to be a gaping hole in their product range below the 3100, nothing around the £10-15,000 mark in the UK (complete with basic lens and viewfinder), nothing to directly compete with Sonys PMW350. I'm not trying to say the PMW350 is as good as a 3100 or the PDW700, but it's vastly cheaper, and still pretty good. Surely Panasonic can't be just abandoning this bit of the market? |
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August 27th, 2010, 08:25 AM | #34 |
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With the 3100 you get 10 bit vs 8 bit recording too.
It's a good question though, and one I was going to throw out there - if they were exactly the same price which one would you choose? It'd be a tough one, but for anyone needing slomo the PDW700 with 720/60P would surely win. Robyn, I'm sure the 3100 will have timelapse capability and pre-roll, they all seem to now. Steve |
August 27th, 2010, 08:28 AM | #35 | |
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And if you hurry, the great deal offered on the HPX2700 can't be beat. $19,995 plus trade in? Darn good deal. |
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August 27th, 2010, 08:33 AM | #36 |
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I think I might agree with David before he even posts a response - the HPX500 has less than a third of the resolution of the PDW700 or PMW350. A lot of people argue that even 720 resolution is borderline for HD, but the HPX500 is nowhere near even that. Viewfinder is awful too. Other than that it is as you say a really nice "proper" camera, timelapse, pre-record, variable frame rates etc., it's just way behind the times as a serious consideration IMHO.
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August 27th, 2010, 08:36 AM | #37 | |
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Can slo-mo only be done in the 720 setting? All the cameras Ive used had to do slo-mo in 720. Edit - or am I thinking of time lapse? |
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August 27th, 2010, 08:45 AM | #38 | |
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I know it pixel-shifts, or whatever the technology is, so it doesn't have true HD CCDs. But the 500 has been cleared for full acquisition for Discovery HD Silver, so it's not all that bad of an image. |
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August 27th, 2010, 08:52 AM | #39 |
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One more point:
Couldn't you add a Nano Flash drive to the PDW350 and get 4:2:2 color and at least a 50mbps data rate? Don't Nanos use CF cards? That would be quite a potent package. |
August 27th, 2010, 09:52 AM | #40 |
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Slo-mo derived from 1080/30P is not pretty. 720/60P is the proper approach. As far as the gaping hole in the Panasonic line, the HPX2700, the true Varicam, is a low $20K camera--yes, it's 720P native, but the HDX900 has been delivering 1080P recordings since 2006 with many happy clients, and the 2700 is better in every way with a full sample, 10-bit codec.
The reality may very well be that a 2/3" native 1080X1920 CCD camera isn't feasible at the PDW-350 price point. Sony saved money by going CMOS and a low bit-rate, Long GOP, 4:2:0 codec. The HPX3100 is a very different animal, albeit with most likely a higher price. I was probably being too optimistic thinking a low $20K price was feasible for the 3100. Jeff Regan Shooting Star Video |
August 27th, 2010, 10:21 AM | #41 | |
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Yes, you can add a Nanoflash to the 350, and I think it's an area where Sony are winning, ie that Panny have the better codec but a lesser chip in a lot of lines - with the Sony you can add a Nanoflash to even up the codec stakes, but Panny can't ever even up the chip side of things as you're stuck with the one that's in the camera. Steve |
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August 27th, 2010, 11:30 AM | #42 | ||||
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That's really the point I was making - wouldn't we have expected to see it's replacement by now? The 3100 looks good, but are we not going to see any other 2/3" camera from Panasonic this IBC? Quote:
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Glen - you are absolutely correct about the nanoFlash, and I believe a lot of people do just that. But I don't really like extra bits hanging off the camera - not when there seems to be no technical reason not to have 50Mbs XDCAM 422 coding in camera. Hence the wish of a great many people for a PMW350 with the fully approved codec, even if it costs a bit more. |
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August 27th, 2010, 11:54 AM | #43 |
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David,
The HPX2700 P2 Varicam has a special $19,950 trade-in price through September 30 in the US. It has been on offer off and on since October of 2009. It is an amazing camera for the money. My clients do a whole lot of green screen and most don't want a 4:2:0 codec, so that leaves out the 350 unless using an external recorder. Getting away from an external recorder is the reason I got out of my HDX900/Firestore setup(yes, a nanoFlash is a better solution than FireStore) and went for the 2700. I've got 6.7 hours of internal record time at 720/24PN with a 10-bit, 4:2:2, I-Frame codec, using 32Gb P2 cards(2x that with 64Gb cards). Many of my clients looking for a 2/3" camera won't take the XDCAM EX codec seriously, especially for compositing work. Of course there are some who demand a native 1080 camera, at which point I sub-rent an HPX3700. The 3100 would fit some of my client's needs admirably at a lower day rate than a 3700, theoretically. Jeff Regan Shooting Star Video |
August 27th, 2010, 03:01 PM | #44 | ||
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But as Steve said - at least you have the option of an external recorder with a 350, you don't have any option of external chips with a 2700. |
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August 29th, 2010, 07:31 PM | #45 |
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David,
I have DP clients and editors who won't shoot green screen with XDCAM EX. I have an EX1, but they won't go for it when compositing. I recently had a DP tell me he'd rather do green screen with a Canon 7D than with XDCAM EX. He's more technical than many DP's, writes a lot on the internet and for magazines. Nobody has ever complained about green screen with a 2700 using AVC-Intra 100. A 720P full raster recording at 10-bit, 4:2:2, I-Frame, with lots of latitude works just fine for the waist up head shots on green screen shot commonly. As far as the 2700 trade-in price, I can only speak to the market I'm in, which is the US. There are now several 3700's/ 2700's in the SF Bay Area in large part due to the trade-in deal on offer for over a year, off and on. There are no Sony 350's, 1/2" or 2/3", no 700's, and one 800 in our rental market. I just got back from shooting some amazing Native American tribal dances, shooting daytime exteriors and night time fire lit exteriors. The 2700 in Film-Rec 600%, AVC-Intra 100 at 720P, provided some very natural images, even at 9db gain in the latter case. The ability to do 48 frame overcranking in camera really added a nice aesthetic for some scenes. The camera held the fire as far as color and there was some highlight detail retained as well, while still providing good shadow detail and mid-tones, even before grading. I'm sure an Arri Alexa could have done better, but I am pretty impressed with what was captured by the P2 Varicam. Jeff Regan Shooting Star Video |
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