Is the PAL Version Capable of 720p60? at DVinfo.net

Daymon Hoffman · November 14th, 2005, 10:00 PM

Hi,

I've wondered this question and haven't seen it answered convincingly either way. Would anyone have solid info at this point in time given its much closer to release now? Considering the camera has selectable non-standard frame rates as recently verified then i'm probably asking to much to have up to 60fps for PAL models given... well you know the standards. :) But i'd love a few more fps and 10 is a lot to have up your sleeve.

Cheers,

Barry Green · November 15th, 2005, 02:33 AM

I don't know if anyone has a definitive answer, but I'd guess that no, there's no way the European model is going to have 60p. The DVCPRO-HD codec is different for the different territories, and DVCPRO-HD in PAL territories doesn't support 60p, it only goes to 50p. It uses a larger matrix and more bits per frame, so the data rate maxxes out at 100mb with 50 frames.

So no, I'd say there's no chance that the European model will offer 60p.

Sergio Perez · November 15th, 2005, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

I don't know if anyone has a definitive answer, but I'd guess that no, there's no way the European model is going to have 60p. The DVCPRO-HD codec is different for the different territories, and DVCPRO-HD in PAL territories doesn't support 60p, it only goes to 50p. It uses a larger matrix and more bits per frame, so the data rate maxxes out at 100mb with 50 frames.

So no, I'd say there's no chance that the European model will offer 60p.

Does the varicam allow it? Than why not the HVX?

Emanuel Costa · November 15th, 2005, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio Perez

Does the varicam allow it? Than why not the HVX?

Good question, indeed!

Dylan Pank · November 15th, 2005, 05:54 AM

The Varicam ALWAYS records 60p - to create 50p with it you need to record as a speed effect and them pull down to create the required PAL friendly frame rate.

Does this mean that the 50hz 720p codec will be different from the Varicam codec? (ie bigger than 960*720?)

Daymon Hoffman · November 15th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

I don't know if anyone has a definitive answer, but I'd guess that no, there's no way the European model is going to have 60p. The DVCPRO-HD codec is different for the different territories, and DVCPRO-HD in PAL territories doesn't support 60p, it only goes to 50p. It uses a larger matrix and more bits per frame, so the data rate maxxes out at 100mb with 50 frames.

So no, I'd say there's no chance that the European model will offer 60p.

Damn i was afraid of that... :(

Barry Green · November 15th, 2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan Pank

The Varicam ALWAYS records 60p - to create 50p with it you need to record as a speed effect and them pull down to create the required PAL friendly frame rate.

Is there a different model for the VariCam in Europe? I looked on the panasonic-broadcast.com site and it sure seemed to be the same US-spec model; the manual that I downloaded showed 60hz/59.94hz throughout.

Quote:

Does this mean that the 50hz 720p codec will be different from the Varicam codec? (ie bigger than 960*720?)

Interesting question. In the Avid software codec, and in the Apple FCP manual, they list three different modes for DVCPRO-HD: 1080/50i, 1080/60i, and 720/60p. 1080/50i is listed as 1440x1080 in the Apple manual; 1080/60i is listed as 1280x1080; but there's only one listing for 720.

Perhaps 720 in DVCPRO-HD is, in fact, always 60p? That would explain some nagging questions, but it doesn't explain why there's different recording times listed on the P2 charts -- somewhere I'm sure I saw a chart of P2 recording times, and 720/25p and 720/50p were taking up as much space as 720/30p and 720/60p... which doesn't make sense if the codec is indeed the same.

So -- well, heck, I guess we don't know. Perhaps the European unit will have 60p after all? Doesn't seem likely though -- the press release clearly says 720/50p:
http://panasonic-broadcast.com/data/...5B3B88F8.0.doc

Might be a good question for European users to post in the forum at panasonic-broadcast.com.

Daymon Hoffman · November 15th, 2005, 08:06 PM

See this is yet another reason why the HVX (and every camera for that matter) should become region free. Why go through so much effort simply to make 'different' camera's for different regions. Its insane this day and age.

Barry,

Would you have a link to that forum? Perhaps i'll ask the question if someone hasnt already.

Thanks.

Barry Green · November 16th, 2005, 02:57 AM

There's a link at the top of the www.panasonic-broadcast.com webpage. That's the home page of Panasonic Broadcast for all of Europe.

Daymon Hoffman · November 16th, 2005, 04:29 PM

Thanks Barry.

Federico Martini Crotti · November 19th, 2005, 05:09 PM

"Also able to record Standard Definition in the DVCPRO50, DVCPRO and DV formats, the AG-HVX200 supports image creation from the entire DVCPRO family of equipment straight into the IT enviroment. The standards for 1080 and 576 signals support 50i and 25p and for the 720 standard P2minicam supports 25 and 50 in progressive mode."

This is what the European Pana Site says. Too bad.

November 14th, 2005, 10:00 PM	#1
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	Is the PAL Version Capable of 720p60? Hi, I've wondered this question and haven't seen it answered convincingly either way. Would anyone have solid info at this point in time given its much closer to release now? Considering the camera has selectable non-standard frame rates as recently verified then i'm probably asking to much to have up to 60fps for PAL models given... well you know the standards. :) But i'd love a few more fps and 10 is a lot to have up your sleeve. Cheers, __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

November 15th, 2005, 08:06 PM	#8
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	See this is yet another reason why the HVX (and every camera for that matter) should become region free. Why go through so much effort simply to make 'different' camera's for different regions. Its insane this day and age. Barry, Would you have a link to that forum? Perhaps i'll ask the question if someone hasnt already. Thanks. __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

November 16th, 2005, 04:29 PM	#10
Daymon Hoffman Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 267	Thanks Barry. __________________ Welcome... to the real world!

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November 15th, 2005, 02:33 AM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	I don't know if anyone has a definitive answer, but I'd guess that no, there's no way the European model is going to have 60p. The DVCPRO-HD codec is different for the different territories, and DVCPRO-HD in PAL territories doesn't support 60p, it only goes to 50p. It uses a larger matrix and more bits per frame, so the data rate maxxes out at 100mb with 50 frames. So no, I'd say there's no chance that the European model will offer 60p.

November 15th, 2005, 05:54 AM	#5
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	The Varicam ALWAYS records 60p - to create 50p with it you need to record as a speed effect and them pull down to create the required PAL friendly frame rate. Does this mean that the 50hz 720p codec will be different from the Varicam codec? (ie bigger than 960*720?)

November 16th, 2005, 02:57 AM	#9
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	There's a link at the top of the www.panasonic-broadcast.com webpage. That's the home page of Panasonic Broadcast for all of Europe.

November 19th, 2005, 05:09 PM	#11
Federico Martini Crotti Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Uruguay Posts: 57	"Also able to record Standard Definition in the DVCPRO50, DVCPRO and DV formats, the AG-HVX200 supports image creation from the entire DVCPRO family of equipment straight into the IT enviroment. The standards for 1080 and 576 signals support 50i and 25p and for the 720 standard P2minicam supports 25 and 50 in progressive mode." This is what the European Pana Site says. Too bad.