The HVX200 is not a prosumer camera at DVinfo.net

Michael Pappas · January 4th, 2006, 10:29 PM

I had a few people say to me that the HVX200 is prosumer. Insane....

Just to clear things up here. The HVX200 IS NOT A PROSUMER CAMERA.

Panasonic Professional and it's broadcast devision does not make prosumer gear.

This is a small professional camera apposed to a BiG pro camera; and that shirnking of it's size comes with trade offs but it's not consumer related............................ DVCPRO HD -XLR-P2 technology having the phrase " sumer " connected to it makes me ... L o L..

Michael Pappas
Arrfilms@hotmail.com
PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site

XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here:
http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms

http://www.PappasArts.com
http://www.Myspace.com/

Jeff Kilgroe · January 4th, 2006, 10:40 PM

I agree, but...

This little big camera or tiny pro camera or whatever it is, definitely fits into the high end of the "prosumer" or the independent professional price range. So, whether it is something-sumer or not may be debateable, but it sure is price-friendly to "prosumer" level people like myself.

Or maybe the entry level into the "professional" market has just become more affordable.

Shannon Rawls · January 4th, 2006, 10:54 PM

everyting is professional if you use it to make money.

- ShannonRawls.com

Peter Richardson · January 4th, 2006, 11:03 PM

Well said Shannon.

Peter

Michael Pappas · January 4th, 2006, 11:08 PM

Exactly Shannon!

Chris Hurd · January 4th, 2006, 11:36 PM

"Prosumer" should be on the Banished Words list. Frankly I hate it.

Chosei Funahara · January 4th, 2006, 11:58 PM

I totally agree with u guys, i hated the word "prosumer camera"
cheers! that's it.

Petr Marusek · January 5th, 2006, 12:36 AM

Prosumer is a label created many years ago by Sony marketing people to first describe their new 8 mm camcorder with pro features. I read an article about it. Sony would later start making the same product in two versions, prosumer and pro. If it was sold as a part of the pro line, it is was not prosumer. To make sure that the pro product is not associated with consumer quality, the connsumer product was refered to as prosumer.

Sony is a company that continues to make basically the same product in both consumer and pro lines. They are sold by different types of dealers, so this differentiation helps increase sales significantly. VX2000 is in their terms prosumer, PD150 pro, HC1 prosumer, A1 pro, FX1 prosumer, Z1 pro, and so on. It is just marketing nonsense, but somewhat it wrongfully carried into the low end pro market segment and now everyone calls the low end pro stuff prosumer.

The prosumer label certainly did not fit Canon XL and GL2 products, which were competing with Sony's pro products but Canon distributed them via their consumer division, which according to Sony terminology made them prosumer.

John DeLuca · January 5th, 2006, 02:03 AM

My thoughts on the camera......I agree with what has been said about the HVX200 image/options being professional. Im sure it would have good production value when used with decent DP, lighting, and sound gear.....but as most of us know having a pro level camera body matters alot when shooting and selling commercail videography services.

Bigger and more expensive looking gear is better and can help you get bigger returns and more referrals. In my opinion the HVX200 has a prosumer body(handy cam) making it my second choice to a SDX900 or DSR450ws.

John

Peter Jefferson · January 5th, 2006, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

everyting is professional if you use it to make money.

- ShannonRawls.com

WHAT HE SAID..

I wish ppl would get over the prosumer/professional train...

Peter Jefferson · January 5th, 2006, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John DeLuca

My thoughts on the camera......I agree with what has been said about the HVX200 image/options being professional. Im sure it would have good production value when used with decent DP, lighting, and sound gear.....but as most of us know having a pro level camera body matters alot when shooting and selling commercail videography services.

Bigger and more expensive looking gear is better and can help you get bigger returns and more referrals. In my opinion the HVX200 has a prosumer body(handy cam) making it my second choice to a SDX900 or DSR450ws.

John

Although i agree with u john, i have to say that for corproate work your on the money.. bigger can be seen as better, however for the money, id rather set up 2 HVX's (at the pirice of one SDX900 with change...) as i can easily do multicam shoots and not have to reshoot for my closeups...
thats jsut one example..

Form factor has always been an issue, but at the end of the day, its all about the operator..

Ive had corp jobs where ive had to do sales pitchs for them... i take my Mobile kit with me and lay it all out. From cameras to mics to lighting... Give them an idea of whats involved...

Numerous times ive gotten the deal over ENG cam users simply because i can offer alot more visually with multicam work, on top of that, the image quality is comparable as were still in a SD world (HD is not an issue at this time).
To the large clients content is king.. not wow factor on my tools of choice..

Although i have had many comments made about "wheres that big thing u use to use" (i used to shoot corps with a DSR570) i tell them that the chocie to use a Z1 (for projection work like seminars) or DVX (for web based content) is for discretion and for the fact that i can set up a shot in les than 4 secods flat.. i cant do that with an ENG cam.. i dont think anyone can..

Sure u lose quite abit with the smaller CCDs and the lense issue really isnt an issue (for me) as i never really chopped or changed those with the DSR.. ii just stuck to my 17x Fujinon and that was that.. never really had a need..

Professional? Prosumer.. ?
As far as im concerned, im making money. Im also required to know my tools inside out. If somethign goes wrong, like a mechanic, i SHOULD KNOW whats wrong and know what needs to be done to fix it.
DEALING with these matters are key... from money to business to sales to customer care...
To me, THIS is being professional.

I can use 2 9mm pistols, or i can use a Sniper rifle. At the end of the day, a bullet wil be shot and a target will be hit. With the 2 9mms I at least have a backup and i have the option of messing with the tragectory of my bullet.. with one gun, I only have one shot... Most of the time i hit the target, but i dread the thought of missing the target.... I jsut cant afford that kind of gamble..

Jemore Santos · January 5th, 2006, 07:36 AM

Does it make you see the camera different? In the end it's what your expectations are on this camera. Lables are for posers, don't listen to them.
I up shanon on that quote.

Walter Graff · January 5th, 2006, 10:31 PM

Take away the marketing terms and it is a prosumer camera. It's become common. Take the trademark "Pro Line" that Panasonic has for some of their prosumer cameras. There are 47 registered trade marks called Proline right now. Auto supplier Manny Mo and Jack owns one for a line of oil filters. Are those filters what pros use? Not necessarily If you stand in front of the filter section though, odds are good you will grab a filter that says pro filter instead of filter. THE TRANZONIC COMPANIES owns another trademark name for "proline". Is their line any more pro than any other? Well theirs is for tile and grout sponges and wallpaper sponges. Good marketing and packaging, but are these the kinds only pros use. The idea is association. If they call a camera "pro", it means that it's "better" than one that is not. Do pros use DVX100's? Sure, but it's not the first camera someone shooting a network program might choose. Rather it is a small from camera that can serve certain purposes. THE HVX200 is prosumer camera in that it serves the market in between home and all pro. Will pros use them for certain things? Yes, but talk to any professional broadcast sales person and they will tell you this is a prosumer camera. Is that bad? No, where else can you get a camera that can shoot a higher definition camera for $6k? Panasonic refers to this cameras use as for "professional AV use". That makes perfect sense.

Canon is about the only company lest that still puts their XL and HL series cameras under the consumer division name (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...modelid=12152). Did it matter? The XL1 was the first camera to start the revolution. No one had to use the term pro for that to happen.

Chris Hurd · January 5th, 2006, 11:13 PM

The XL1 did not start the revolution, not by a long shot. That distinction falls squarely on the Sony VX1000. The revolution began when this camera first hit the streets in 1995, two full years before the Canon XL1.

Rob McCardle · January 5th, 2006, 11:34 PM

An old news stringer for one of the local networks here once told me, " Sometimes you need the presence of a big camera."

That was about 5 years ago - me with a PD 150 at the time.
This guy was a competitor of mine but we also worked together on many things, and still do.

Ya know what ? - he's still right.
They - the public and most clients can't get past what they are used to seeing on tv ...

January 4th, 2006, 10:29 PM	#1
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	The HVX200 is not a prosumer camera I had a few people say to me that the HVX200 is prosumer. Insane.... Just to clear things up here. The HVX200 IS NOT A PROSUMER CAMERA. Panasonic Professional and it's broadcast devision does not make prosumer gear. This is a small professional camera apposed to a BiG pro camera; and that shirnking of it's size comes with trade offs but it's not consumer related............................ DVCPRO HD -XLR-P2 technology having the phrase " sumer " connected to it makes me ... L o L.. Michael Pappas Arrfilms@hotmail.com PappasArts & Arrfilms Main site XLH1 and HVX200 frame grabs and news here: http://www.pbase.com/Arrfilms http://www.PappasArts.com http://www.Myspace.com/

January 4th, 2006, 10:40 PM	#2
Jeff Kilgroe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 681	I agree, but... This little big camera or tiny pro camera or whatever it is, definitely fits into the high end of the "prosumer" or the independent professional price range. So, whether it is something-sumer or not may be debateable, but it sure is price-friendly to "prosumer" level people like myself. Or maybe the entry level into the "professional" market has just become more affordable. __________________ - Jeff Kilgroe - Applied Visual Technologies \| DarkScience - www.darkscience.com

January 4th, 2006, 10:54 PM	#3
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	everyting is professional if you use it to make money. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

January 4th, 2006, 11:36 PM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	"Prosumer" should be on the Banished Words list. Frankly I hate it. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 4th, 2006, 11:58 PM	#7
Chosei Funahara Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: N.Y.C. USA / Kobe, JAPAN / Posts: 49	i agree with u guys I totally agree with u guys, i hated the word "prosumer camera" cheers! that's it.

January 4th, 2006, 11:03 PM	#4
Peter Richardson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 608	Well said Shannon. Peter

January 4th, 2006, 11:08 PM	#5
Michael Pappas Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: California Posts: 667	Exactly Shannon!

January 5th, 2006, 12:36 AM	#8
Petr Marusek Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 155	Prosumer is a label created many years ago by Sony marketing people to first describe their new 8 mm camcorder with pro features. I read an article about it. Sony would later start making the same product in two versions, prosumer and pro. If it was sold as a part of the pro line, it is was not prosumer. To make sure that the pro product is not associated with consumer quality, the connsumer product was refered to as prosumer. Sony is a company that continues to make basically the same product in both consumer and pro lines. They are sold by different types of dealers, so this differentiation helps increase sales significantly. VX2000 is in their terms prosumer, PD150 pro, HC1 prosumer, A1 pro, FX1 prosumer, Z1 pro, and so on. It is just marketing nonsense, but somewhat it wrongfully carried into the low end pro market segment and now everyone calls the low end pro stuff prosumer. The prosumer label certainly did not fit Canon XL and GL2 products, which were competing with Sony's pro products but Canon distributed them via their consumer division, which according to Sony terminology made them prosumer.

January 5th, 2006, 02:03 AM	#9
John DeLuca Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Akron, Ohio Posts: 496	My thoughts on the camera......I agree with what has been said about the HVX200 image/options being professional. Im sure it would have good production value when used with decent DP, lighting, and sound gear.....but as most of us know having a pro level camera body matters alot when shooting and selling commercail videography services. Bigger and more expensive looking gear is better and can help you get bigger returns and more referrals. In my opinion the HVX200 has a prosumer body(handy cam) making it my second choice to a SDX900 or DSR450ws. John

January 5th, 2006, 07:36 AM	#12
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	Does it make you see the camera different? In the end it's what your expectations are on this camera. Lables are for posers, don't listen to them. I up shanon on that quote. __________________ "eyes through a digital world"

January 5th, 2006, 10:31 PM	#13
Walter Graff Hellgate Pictures, Inc. Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 124	Take away the marketing terms and it is a prosumer camera. It's become common. Take the trademark "Pro Line" that Panasonic has for some of their prosumer cameras. There are 47 registered trade marks called Proline right now. Auto supplier Manny Mo and Jack owns one for a line of oil filters. Are those filters what pros use? Not necessarily If you stand in front of the filter section though, odds are good you will grab a filter that says pro filter instead of filter. THE TRANZONIC COMPANIES owns another trademark name for "proline". Is their line any more pro than any other? Well theirs is for tile and grout sponges and wallpaper sponges. Good marketing and packaging, but are these the kinds only pros use. The idea is association. If they call a camera "pro", it means that it's "better" than one that is not. Do pros use DVX100's? Sure, but it's not the first camera someone shooting a network program might choose. Rather it is a small from camera that can serve certain purposes. THE HVX200 is prosumer camera in that it serves the market in between home and all pro. Will pros use them for certain things? Yes, but talk to any professional broadcast sales person and they will tell you this is a prosumer camera. Is that bad? No, where else can you get a camera that can shoot a higher definition camera for $6k? Panasonic refers to this cameras use as for "professional AV use". That makes perfect sense. Canon is about the only company lest that still puts their XL and HL series cameras under the consumer division name (http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...modelid=12152). Did it matter? The XL1 was the first camera to start the revolution. No one had to use the term pro for that to happen.

January 5th, 2006, 11:13 PM	#14
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	The XL1 did not start the revolution, not by a long shot. That distinction falls squarely on the Sony VX1000. The revolution began when this camera first hit the streets in 1995, two full years before the Canon XL1. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

January 5th, 2006, 11:34 PM	#15
Rob McCardle Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 99	An old news stringer for one of the local networks here once told me, " Sometimes you need the presence of a big camera." That was about 5 years ago - me with a PD 150 at the time. This guy was a competitor of mine but we also worked together on many things, and still do. Ya know what ? - he's still right. They - the public and most clients can't get past what they are used to seeing on tv ...