Panasonic's Pricing of the HVX200 Pal Version
 

Sure, most of us in PAL land already know that our PAL cameras cost a bit more than our NTSC friends..... but check this thread over at dvxuser.com

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=43509

It looks like a PAL model will cost US$3000 more than a NTSC model.

Thanks for that ..
I just read the thread - if it's true Panny have shot themselves right between the but-tocks.

I can't believe it, quite honestly - that would be sheer madness - we all know it's an international market - factor in exchange rates, some local tax ... it all ends up within a bulls roar if not $ for $.

Jan C ?

exactly...

I can understand a 10% or so difference but 50%?...

I hope this pricing is wrong....

I just did a check on a respectable and probably the biggest company on cameras here in sweden. They charge about 7500 USD + VAT for the HVX200E for just the camera. No price with cards yet there. They typically follow the recommended prices.

I can't understand what Panasonic are thinking. Why 25 % more? AFAI the only difference is the support for PAL.

yeah well the DVX was $8800 when it was first launched here in aus and started selling it at that price and there WERE buyers for it...

i got mine frm singapore thou, WITH a Mic and 3 yr warranty for $5200 shipped to my door within a week of ordering it..
$3600 difference....
thats about $2500USD difference...

THIS explains why grey importing exists..

I'm always happy to pay abit more to keep local business' going and get abit of service.But it makes me mad everytime I think about the blatant overcharging that occured with the dvx. It really killed the dvx in Australia. All my video friends still go for the Sony stuff and hardly any for the panasonic. Worse part is that the local panasonic guys dont want to service your "grey" import. So they expect me to fork out an additional 2 grand just in case I need it serviced? Be reasonable please. I'll be hopping on a plane for a holiday in Singapore if thats the case and coming back with my camera!

Peter are there any good places to service the dvx in Sydney? Myfirewire just died.

I also bought my camera, a Sony PDX10P from Singapore.

Best price here was AU$6200, I got it from Singapore landed here in Oz with GST & 2 yr warranty for AU$4100.

Sure there will be grey importing but I really wanted to avoid that this time around as I like to support my home country of Australia where possible....

But if Panasonic refuses to be reasonable with pricing here in Australia then i'll have no choice yet again.

Looking at the prices on a very reliable & cheap Singaporean dealer I commonly use, it seems his price so far on the HVX200 Pal model is US$10,000 but i'm wondering whether that is the P2 card bundle although it doesn't say...

Time will tell....

"Peter are there any good places to service the dvx in Sydney? Myfirewire just died."

Nah mate, Panasonic (broadcast/pro) are no longer looked after by Rexel. Rexel used to do all the service repairs and sales etc... but now... who friggin knows..
Im still waiting on a lens cap and a EVF protective cap.. ands its been what.. 8 months now since i pout the order through..... and i have priority to all this shit and im still waiting..

but no, even with an import, they wont service it to "discourage" people from getin their kit overseas.... they check your import with teh serial numbers on the camera itself (the number on the EVF)

With regard to the firewire, I'll see if i can find the scematics here somewhere (im home and im no longer at DVT) but i DO know ive got the scematics of the 2 DVX units here (youve got a 100a yas?? )
So if u can find an engineer, they can probably do it.. but to be honest, i think gettin urself a cheap second hand DVcam will save u some money... Ive been using an MX500 for capturing, ive NEVER used the firewire port from the DVX.. (apart from using it with a firestore...)

As for supporting the local guy.. well theres really no point when it comes THIS much money... for supplies and accessories, i agree.. however the amount of taxes that we pay (here in aus) is ridiculous.
The fac that the units dont move very fast demand that an equilibrium be made to offset the loss of units not sold.
Basically, coz not that many are sold, they gotta charge more to make a bit more of a profit margin... I can sell 5 units at 10% cost... that means im making a 50% margin on those 5 units combined... thats worth it.. but that means i need to have 5 units on stock.. now it would prolly take me 3 months (maybe more) to sell those 5 units.. is it worth the time and effort to store, insure, and sell these units at 10% profit? Do the math..
the insurance alone would blow my profit... then theres labour time for the sale, educating the client on how it works etc etc..
Thing is, the same thing happened with the XL2.. and canon did the same with regard to service etc...
The Z1 was a joke..

We sold those for 9300 when they were released.... 6 weeks later, we were flogging em for 8200....

THE MARKET HERE IS A JOKE....
FLAT OUT JOKE. Its not worth it anymore.. the big bux is in broadcast....

They don't call us "rip-off Britain" for nothing. If that's the price they can stick it!

It probably won't make any difference but I think some sort of petition or similar should be done to make the Australian & European distributors aware of the high amount of grey imports due to their ridiculous pricing.....

Any suggestions on how to make them aware?

Well, it might be that the price includes P2-cards but I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. It may also be that the PAL-edition will have that price generally and the NTSC edition is just a lot cheaper.

Hmm... given you also get an extra 10fps on the NTSC model and more cash in your pocket... looks like that is the one. :)

Hmm.. interesting thought... if you are going to make shorts and indie movies it really doesn't matter, or? The only "problem" is the AC-adaptor to go for 230V instead of 110V that the NTSC-version is (I think it is but I might be wrong).

Given the Canon XL-H1 can be modified to do *BOTH* formats of NTSC/PAL 50i/60i its quite clear that there should be no real reason for such a huge price difference between the 2 cameras.....

In regards to the power adaptor, most of them are 110-240 AC 50/60Hz so that shouldn't be a problem at all.

They may not care but I think if we all put our names together & made them aware of the many lost sales in their country, well at least over time prices may eventually change...

Prices suck here in Europe...

Last year in August or September, a month or so before the XL2 was released in America, I asked in a dealer in Belgium how much the XL1s costed... it was 4200 euros, I don't know how much dollar that is, maybe something like 4800 dollars...
And that's just one year ago...

Glad I bought my PAL model second hand from someone on these boards, barely used for 2500 euros.

With 2 8gb cards 8219 UKP inc VAT.
http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/cgi-b...onic_ag-hvx200

That's about 14000 USD, right?

Edit: Saw now that it was 13000 USD + VAT. Ouch!

Thats right. And Creative Video have pretty competitive pricing too, so I wouldn't imagine many other companies being much cheaper.

That's an interesting perspective on sales Peter. No wonder nobody bothers with the small fry in Australia.

The problem with my dvx100a is that I actually want to use the firewire for a firestore or dvrack. Some wonky stuff is going on with the electronics in my camera. The power zoom failed for a few months and then decided to ressurect itself at the expense of losing firewire!

I was thinking of getting the 100b for the lower noise floor, underscan, clearer evf and lcd but the hvx may be the way to go. Will DVT be selling these?

The only way to make the price drop is not buying 'em. :)

You can get an HD100 for £3000+VAT, less that HALF the price!

The link to the Creative Video page not only has their price - 12,368.06 euros - but also the following text in the blurb:
"The AG-HVX200 will be available in the first quarter of 2006 at suggested list price of 10,000 Euros including 2 8GB P2 cards."
ex Vat it is 10,526 euros but cameras are usually quoted inc of vat which suggests that a price hike has occured between announcement and delivery (but only with the PAL version)

Just checked http://www.videokit.co.uk and though there's no price yet the blurb states (my caps)
"The AG-HVX200 will be available in the first quarter of 2006 at suggested list price BELOW 10,000 Euros including 2 8GB P2 cards."

So that extra 1 fps is costing us big-time?

Even Sony does't rip us off as badly as that - Panasonic Europe, if you're listening, this is a BAD move.

Sony even sell a camera which can switch from NTSC to PAL and back with the touch of a menu button. I honestly don't see why other companies still restrict their cameras to NTSC or PAL when the CCD resolutions for HD are the same... other than to create a captive market for price hikes, of course.

Well, after a bit more digging around, here in New Zealand that increase is going to price the camera at around NZ$15,000 which is around the same price as what the Canon is selling for.

Ummm, I'm really trying to be polite - but if that price doesn't include P2 cards and is bare base camera only (which I can't establish atm) - there's no freak'n way I'm going to part with that sort of money for a handheld (hell, no way even with 2 8gb cards) ... in comparison the Z1 is going for around $7 k.

edit: oh - I forgot the cost of the deck for HDV so add another $4300 to the Sony.
$11300 cf $15,000.

This is fantasy land now - whodathunk that they could ever get people to pay these prices for handhelds ... the mind boggles.
That's confirmed my decision to rent.

Once we get confirmation on pricing, i'll start another thread so we can do a firm comparison on the pricing between different countries & the PAL/NTSC cameras.

It would be good to get a list of people's names in PAL countries who are going to be forced to either buy the HVX200 overseas or buy a Sony/Canon instead due to massive difference in pricing & switchable NTSC/PAL capabilities. Gee don't Panasonic realise that people actually travel & use their cameras in different countries or shoot for overseas markets & need the 24P/25P-50i/60i option?

Whether or not this makes any difference to Panasonics pricing will yet to be seen but at least they'll be aware of the loss of potential sales, which I believe we should be able to get the list over the 100 names mark.....

Count me in as a PAL user whos not happy!

WOT!

i was just thinking, would i be right in saying that Canon's stupid high price is a big part factor of this amazing price tag. It makes me laugh, i think i'm now gonna go with the JVC for definate purley becuase...There is nothing to justify that riduclous cost of the P nor the C. Not even Panniscankers dvx reputation which doesn't that just lie mainly with the NTSC models not the PAL( i'm talking about the supposed film look) I was gonna go with canonrip-off before, but JVC's easy price tag, ergonomics, etc. and the picture are all beating the rest for me. And i don't feel like i'm getting robbed from them.

Just my 2.

Oh yea and still have not seen any footage form the damn thing, and they've made us wait longer. From any Buisness POV this is not good ethics. WTF

I guess I will take the JVC instead.
The JVC is sharp, has a great low light sensivity and latitude, cine gamma / look seems to be almost the same as the HVX, records on cheap DV tapes and on 720p there is no Problem with artifacts.
The cam here in Europe new incl. VAT(!) is ~ 5500 - 6000 EUR and I don´t need expensive, additional gimmiks like overpriced P2 Cards.
bye bye panny!

Rob,

I understand that price from Panasonic NZ will include 2x 8gig cards. That is not unreasonable considering the RRP out of the US of $9995 and our exchange rate sitting at .69

Certainly a better deal than what our PAL colleagues in the UK and Europe are looking at.

I'll be more than happy to rent you one of course!

Cheers, Scott.

Rental ? Yes - you probably will :-)

I think that price is quite reasonable. But I won't buy it. 8 )

finally I now ordered a XL2 PAL. Resolution is nearly as good as HVX or JVC100, looks very cine like, has great glass and saves lots of money to be better invested in some light, a small dolly, a small crane, ..
25- -> 24p for film out is easy, just slow down footage by 1 fps and give a 4% timeexpansion on audio.

There you go Panasonic, lost customer. Hopefully you'll get quite a few more like that and you'll have to reconsider ripping us PAL users off!

Just found out that Sony have announced a new HD XDCAM model, the F350. Still 1/2" ccd's, and still the same datarates as the F330, but the 350 records variable framerate from 4fps up to 60fps. I've also noticed that the list price has changed. The F330 is now listed as $16k while the 350 is $25k

Interesting.

Do these prices include lenses?

Apparently it does include the lens.

[QUOTE=Rob McCardle]

Ummm, I'm really trying to be polite - but if that price doesn't include P2 cards and is bare base camera only (which I can't establish atm) - there's no freak'n way I'm going to part with that sort of money for a handheld (hell, no way even with 2 8gb cards) ... in comparison the Z1 is going for around $7 k.

edit: oh - I forgot the cost of the deck for HDV so add another $4300 to the Sony.
$11300 cf $15,000.

QUOTE]
hmm.. well i woudlnt buy a deck for $4300.. (i didnt coz here in Aus, THAT HDV deck is $6200, i still use my Z1s) id rather get an A1 or HC1 and use that as a second or third camera...AND as a capture deck... at least that way the single chipper can also be used for acquisition and not just capture...

probably not...

Either way here in Aus, we should expect tha base unit for the HVX to be abot the 10/12k mark... maybe less if were lucky... but i really doubt it..
I was advised during SMPTE that were looking at upwards of 16k for the camera and 2 cards... teh P2 Store was going to go for soomethin like 3grand...
THis is all AU$$ of course...

now to me, 10k for the JVC is JUST on being reasonable.. the Z1, is a deadset bargain at 7k (at launch it was 9300...), and the FX1 even better at $4500.... the canon will prolly hit the 12k mark.. maybe less but i doubt that too.. unless someone has an actual price of it and would like to share...

Now heres the important bit...
Unlike most event production houses, these manufacturers are making as much $$ as they can during this transition... Good on them i say... no hear me out... how much work was invovled in bringing these tools to us i really dont want to imagine... But now we can do things we never thought we could possibly do...
Now if the market suppliers follow this trend and starts charging the customer appropriately for HD products, then the issue of cost really woudnt be an issue...

we all complain about cost, and rightly so.. but only to a point...
But in the end, these costs SHOULD be offset back to our clients..
ITS OUR OWN FAULT if we dont.. and its our fault if we allow a precedent to be set within the industry which retains DV production Prices.
This is whats hapening.. I am yet to see a house charging more for HD.... When in fact they should be...

Think about it, coz how manmy people are going to need to upgrade? How many new formats and delivery options must be purchased? What abotu training? And how about processing/encoding times?
Its all about the bottom line and if it doesnt hit, then theres no point in going on.. and mroe importantly if u DONT intend to charge for HD production and want to keep your prices at DV level, then you shouldnt complain about the price of the product....
Why do i say that? Well the opportunity to EXPAND your business is there by offering higher fidelity imagery at a price.

Do waht the big companies are doing.. cash in on it... while u can ..

I am jsut dreading to see the same thing happen with this DV to HD transition, as we saw during the transition between analogue and digital.. the opportunity to expand business was there.. but it was never taken..
However now were working harder, processing more and charging less..