P2 vs Tape... at DVinfo.net

Michael Paul Young · February 16th, 2006, 10:33 PM

Im new to this camera, have been digging for past two days in all the topics. Im currently selling off my XL2 gear, to move to this camera. Im a bit hesitant to jump on the P2 just right now due to the cost (hoping over time larger cards, cheaper prices slide in). Im curious, if anyone has any samples of footage done onto tape vs shot on p2. Also, is there that huge of a different between using tape vs p2. Can tape still get 1080, but done at HDV? I know HDV sucks compared to the Panasonic DVCPRO format, but im curious how big is the difference. If this has been discussed before, i apologize ahead of time, but I didn't see it...Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

Craig Seeman · February 16th, 2006, 11:43 PM

This has all been answered elsewhere on this board.
Tape is ONLY miniDV.

For long from recording of HD look to FireStore or CinePorter for about 90 minutes to over 3 hours of record time depending on HD frame rate (720p60 or 720p24n for example) for the 100GB drive.

People may archive on hard drive, data tapes or BluRay (when that happens).

Chris Hurd · February 16th, 2006, 11:52 PM

P2 is the single least expensive way to record DVCPRO HD. To do it on tape, you're looking at about $20,000. If you want to record DVCPRO HD, the most affordable way to do it is with P2.

Mark Thorpe · February 17th, 2006, 12:03 AM

Hi,
I'm in the same boat when it comes to making the potential jump to P2. I have been sourcing all the info I can find for the past month and when the reality hits it seems blaringly obvious, to me, that P2 is definitely the way forward. I've always been a "Sonyphile" until now, always reluctant to look at the other technology on offer. I for one will be making the transition to the HVX200 and P2 as and when the PAL unit becomes available. At that time, with the current delays in release, I am also hoping to look seriously into the acquisition of a Cineporter. I have everything else in place and aim to upgrade from FCP 5 within the coming days.

I'll be adopting this unit as my primary format for underwater filming which I have been doing now on DV format for the past, almost, 14 years. My clients, past, present and future have all been informed of my move and are looking forward to my first trials with the new system as and when sufficient footage has been collected.

In the meantime I will be hanging around this, and other, related forums in the hope that I will keep up to date on all and any news relating to both the camera and P2 format.

Just throwing in my pennies worth.

Cheers,
Mark.

Joshua Miller · February 17th, 2006, 12:36 AM

Hey Michael, do you already have a buyer for your XL2? That is what i'm in the market for.

Kevin Shaw · February 17th, 2006, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

P2 is the single least expensive way to record DVCPRO HD. To do it on tape, you're looking at about $20,000. If you want to record DVCPRO HD, the most affordable way to do it is with P2.

We've discussed this before, but that's a relative statement depending on what and how you shoot. At a typical wedding I'll shoot at least five hours worth of footage on two or more cameras, which with P2 memory cards would easily cost over $20K for one event (unless I had someone to manage the process of offloading data to recycle the cards). So P2 may be great for some people but not for others, and most people I know who are interested in the HVX200 are also interested in the proposed DTE drives for this camera. P2 won't be fully cost-effective until there are larger cards available at much lower cost per GB.

Vincent Rozenberg · February 17th, 2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Tjin-A-Sie

One must be rich or crazy to record to P2.

Or your way of work can allow you doing it. Like drama productions or Music-videos for instance. Have a Laptop with you and download material to it in between shoots.

Michael Paul Young · February 17th, 2006, 12:31 PM

Thanks guys, i did lots of digging, starting to understand now. So basically with tape, you still doing 720/480, but with the 3 frame rate options, and now finally 16:9 and progressive ability (over the old model). The p2 cards are outrageous, but at same time very tempting, I dont film long shoots, so they actually arent that much trouble to work with.

As far as the firestore, are you refering to like this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

This says ProHD? Do these have to work with certain video formats, or do they really work with any format, and its in reality just a portable hard drive?

Craig Seeman · February 17th, 2006, 12:44 PM

On the HVX you can ONLY do "480" on miniDV tape. To be clearer you can only do DV on tape. DVCPro (including DVCPro25 AFAIK) MUST be on P2 (or hard drive). You can downsample the variable frame rates to tape but must record those on P2 FIRST.

Michael I think you need to read the readily available HVX200 Product Literature.

Shoothing at 720p24n you can fit about 40 minutes on 2 8GB P2 cards. Firestore for HVX is not out yet (nor is CinePorter) but I wouldn't be surprised if we saw them around NAB in late April.

With 100GB Firestore or CinePorter you might get close to 4 hours at 720p24n which might be enough for a wedding. You'd better be charging "primo" dollars for that though. BTW I've heard CinePorter may be working on 240GB version.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Paul Young

Thanks guys, i did lots of digging, starting to understand now. So basically with tape, you still doing 720/480, but with the 3 frame rate options, and now finally 16:9 and progressive ability (over the old model). The p2 cards are outrageous, but at same time very tempting, I dont film long shoots, so they actually arent that much trouble to work with.

As far as the firestore, are you refering to like this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

This says ProHD? Do these have to work with certain video formats, or do they really work with any format, and its in reality just a portable hard drive?

Michael Paul Young · February 17th, 2006, 12:47 PM

"On the HVX you can ONLY do "480" on miniDV tape. To be clearer you can only do DV on tape. DVCPro (including DVCPro25 AFAIK) MUST be on P2 (or hard drive). You can downsample the variable frame rates to tape but must record those on P2 FIRST.

Michael I think you need to read the readily available HVX200 Product Literature."

So you can only do typical DV, got it. But theres new lens, frame rates, etc, so even just the DV aspect is better than the older model, gotcha.

So ok, the 720 is the next size up, and that you can actually get some decent time on a p2, thats not bad. But the 1080 is the one that hogs the card...i think I follow. Thanks for the help.

Craig Seeman · February 17th, 2006, 01:09 PM

Yes, it can shoot "widescreen" DV with very nice 16x9 chips to good "old fashioned" miniDV tape with the affordable workflow we love.

For higher end "Standard Def" you can shoot DVCPro50 to P2 or hard drive. Shooting DVCPro 50 in 4:2:2 color space probably makes it the best possible Standard Def 1/3" 3 chip camera on the market.

Don't forget you CAN shoot your variable frame rate shoots on P2 at 720 and dub those to miniDV Standard Def (480) inside the camera!

Those are certainly impressive features that no other camera in its price range can touch.

720p60 and 1080 are big media hogs though and that's the biggest hurdle to face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Paul Young

"On the HVX you can ONLY do "480" on miniDV tape. To be clearer you can only do DV on tape. DVCPro (including DVCPro25 AFAIK) MUST be on P2 (or hard drive). You can downsample the variable frame rates to tape but must record those on P2 FIRST.

Michael I think you need to read the readily available HVX200 Product Literature."

So you can only do typical DV, got it. But theres new lens, frame rates, etc, so even just the DV aspect is better than the older model, gotcha.

So ok, the 720 is the next size up, and that you can actually get some decent time on a p2, thats not bad. But the 1080 is the one that hogs the card...i think I follow. Thanks for the help.

Bill Southworth · February 17th, 2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Shaw

We've discussed this before, but that's a relative statement depending on what and how you shoot. At a typical wedding I'll shoot at least five hours worth of footage on two or more cameras, which with P2 memory cards would easily cost over $20K for one event (unless I had someone to manage the process of offloading data to recycle the cards). So P2 may be great for some people but not for others, and most people I know who are interested in the HVX200 are also interested in the proposed DTE drives for this camera. P2 won't be fully cost-effective until there are larger cards available at much lower cost per GB.

I'm also going to sell my XL2 and perhaps pick up a second HVX. The XL2 has a 16X (XL1) optical stabiilizer zoom and a 3X wide angle. If interested you can contact me directly at Bill@Southworth.TV.

Bill Southworth · February 17th, 2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Tjin-A-Sie

One must be rich or crazy to record to P2.
The best would be an affordable dependable FireStore disk unit.

I must be crazy then because I find using P2 cards as addictive as crack. It's cut my editing time from camera to classified clips by at least 75%.

February 16th, 2006, 10:33 PM	#1
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	P2 vs Tape... Im new to this camera, have been digging for past two days in all the topics. Im currently selling off my XL2 gear, to move to this camera. Im a bit hesitant to jump on the P2 just right now due to the cost (hoping over time larger cards, cheaper prices slide in). Im curious, if anyone has any samples of footage done onto tape vs shot on p2. Also, is there that huge of a different between using tape vs p2. Can tape still get 1080, but done at HDV? I know HDV sucks compared to the Panasonic DVCPRO format, but im curious how big is the difference. If this has been discussed before, i apologize ahead of time, but I didn't see it...Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

February 16th, 2006, 11:52 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	P2 is the single least expensive way to record DVCPRO HD. To do it on tape, you're looking at about $20,000. If you want to record DVCPRO HD, the most affordable way to do it is with P2. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

February 17th, 2006, 12:36 AM	#5
Joshua Miller Tourist Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 3	selling XL2? Hey Michael, do you already have a buyer for your XL2? That is what i'm in the market for.

February 16th, 2006, 11:43 PM	#2
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	This has all been answered elsewhere on this board. Tape is ONLY miniDV. For long from recording of HD look to FireStore or CinePorter for about 90 minutes to over 3 hours of record time depending on HD frame rate (720p60 or 720p24n for example) for the 100GB drive. People may archive on hard drive, data tapes or BluRay (when that happens).

February 17th, 2006, 12:03 AM	#4
Mark Thorpe Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Palau Island, western Pacific Posts: 30	Hi, I'm in the same boat when it comes to making the potential jump to P2. I have been sourcing all the info I can find for the past month and when the reality hits it seems blaringly obvious, to me, that P2 is definitely the way forward. I've always been a "Sonyphile" until now, always reluctant to look at the other technology on offer. I for one will be making the transition to the HVX200 and P2 as and when the PAL unit becomes available. At that time, with the current delays in release, I am also hoping to look seriously into the acquisition of a Cineporter. I have everything else in place and aim to upgrade from FCP 5 within the coming days. I'll be adopting this unit as my primary format for underwater filming which I have been doing now on DV format for the past, almost, 14 years. My clients, past, present and future have all been informed of my move and are looking forward to my first trials with the new system as and when sufficient footage has been collected. In the meantime I will be hanging around this, and other, related forums in the hope that I will keep up to date on all and any news relating to both the camera and P2 format. Just throwing in my pennies worth. Cheers, Mark.

February 17th, 2006, 12:31 PM	#8
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	Thanks guys, i did lots of digging, starting to understand now. So basically with tape, you still doing 720/480, but with the 3 frame rate options, and now finally 16:9 and progressive ability (over the old model). The p2 cards are outrageous, but at same time very tempting, I dont film long shoots, so they actually arent that much trouble to work with. As far as the firestore, are you refering to like this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search This says ProHD? Do these have to work with certain video formats, or do they really work with any format, and its in reality just a portable hard drive?

February 17th, 2006, 12:47 PM	#10
Michael Paul Young Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Baltimore, MD, USA Posts: 28	"On the HVX you can ONLY do "480" on miniDV tape. To be clearer you can only do DV on tape. DVCPro (including DVCPro25 AFAIK) MUST be on P2 (or hard drive). You can downsample the variable frame rates to tape but must record those on P2 FIRST. Michael I think you need to read the readily available HVX200 Product Literature." So you can only do typical DV, got it. But theres new lens, frame rates, etc, so even just the DV aspect is better than the older model, gotcha. So ok, the 720 is the next size up, and that you can actually get some decent time on a p2, thats not bad. But the 1080 is the one that hogs the card...i think I follow. Thanks for the help.