HVX's big brother: HPX500

[Robert Lane]

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

Seems Sony has decided smaller, high res chips is their bet, while Pana thinks bigger, lower res chips is the ticket.

It's not just about the number of pixels but more importantly, pixel pitch and the physics of light transmission and why more pixels doesn't always mean a better picture.

A direct analogy (from experience) is the 11mp EOS 1Ds (35mm body) compared to a 10mp back for medium format; a same-scene comparo shows there's no comparison - the 10mp Leaf back had much better detail and color than the 35mm image sensor in the 1Ds. That stands true today with the newer hardware: The 16mp 1Ds MKII has less detail and color than the 15mp digi-back for medium format. And that stands up to logic: larger glass elements transmitting more light onto a larger surface area = more information available.

So far, digital technology has not found a way to overcome/outsmart the properties of light transmission and capture - the larger the area you can spread the captured light onto the better the end result.

[Nate Weaver]

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

It's not just about the number of pixels but more importantly, pixel pitch and the physics of light transmission and why more pixels doesn't always mean a better picture.

Yes, I know. All I said above was in light of that.

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

So far, digital technology has not found a way to overcome/outsmart the properties of light transmission and capture - the larger the area you can spread the captured light onto the better the end result.

There have been a few helpful advances used on various cameras. The Canon XL2 and the Sony Z1 have benefited from better noise reduction due to newer, faster DSP design and algorithms. Suddenly, +3, +6 aren't the evil noise producers they once were.

The second 'bend the rules of physics' item that comes to mind is the microlens technology that actually places a microscopic lens over each pixel on the CCD chip. This contributes to higher sensitivity and sharper pictures. It really helps those tiny pixels on smaller CCD's pull more light into each photosite.

But of course, all things being equal, larger sensors will give better dynamic range and reduced DOF.

-gb-

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

Two different products, but I don't know what all there is to know about both of 'em.

They're both 2/3", they're both P2/DVCPRO-HD.

The HPC2100 (or HPC2000?) is 24p/30p/60i in 1080 & 720, and can take the AVC-Intra optional codec card. No VFR, as far as I know.

The HPX500 appears to be a 2/3" HVX. It has variable frame rates, and all the modes of the HVX (so 720 and 1080 @24p, 30p, & 60i/60p, plus 720pN, plus DVCPRO50 etc). And it's a world camera, switchable between PAL & NTSC; I don't believe the HPC2100 is.

I don't really know why the HPC2100 should cost more than the HPX500; it looks like the 500 does everything the 2100 does and a whole lot more (perhaps short of the AVC-Intra option?)

Hey Barry, I corrected my original post with the correct model number for the other camera. It's the AJ-HDC2000.

Too much alpha-numeric soup going on in the camera world these days. ;-)

-gb-

[Robert Lane]

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

Yes, I know. All I said above was in light of that.

Kinda figured we were on the same page; one of these days we're going to work a project together, I can just sense it.

[Simon Wyndham]

The new Panny's look good. Certainly the new codec will be very helpful with P2.

Regarding CCD's, I think that at this price point there will always be compromise. Perhaps hopefully Red will kickstart some massive progress though.

But aside from CCD's the real winner will be the one that standardises a workflow. The system that every production company and broadcast house can handle. That is what is seriously lacking at the moment, and neither XDCAM or P2 can address that. Yet.

[Robert Lane]

Here are 2 PDF's I found on both the HPX500 and the HPX2100.

You'll notice the tag on the PDF for the 500 says "pre", and lacks the detailed info that the 2100 has. That's because they just announced this body and I'm sure have not completed it's feature set and the actual control layout on the "business" side of the camera.

However, looking at the 2100 I think can give us a glimpse of what we *might* expect on the 500. Either way, the HPX500 looks to really be the HVX's big brother, no doubt. Somebody pinch me.

[Allan Barnwell]

Has anyone brought up the fact that these cameras are being marketed in different categories by Panasonic?

The "AG" in front of the model means "Pro Line" while "AJ" means "Broadcast".

So when you think of the DVX100, you're thinking of the Pro Line market, but when you think of the VariCam, you're in the Broadcast realm.

This also implies significant price differences.

I would think keeping these 2 markets separate will be an increasing challenge for the manufacturers as we move more towared IT convergence.

Allan Barnwell
Omega Broadcast Group

[Peter Corbett]

I'll be checking an actual production model of the HPX2100 on Wednesday week at Digital Media World. I'll ask about the HPX500. A new beta version of Infinity will also be there.

Peter Corbett
Powerhouse Productions

[Simon Wyndham]

A new beta version of Infinity will also be there.

Take a back brace with you ;-)

Simon

[Robert Lane]

Originally Posted by Allan Barnwell

Has anyone brought up the fact that these cameras are being marketed in different categories by Panasonic?

The "AG" in front of the model means "Pro Line" while "AJ" means "Broadcast".

I certainly didn't pick up on that and, you might have just opened up what the real differences will be between the two bodies. The hope, is that the 500 will have a chipset that is either the same or as-good as the 2100, but as you point out in the two distinct marketing targets this probably won't be the case.

So maybe the 500 is getting the VFR capability to make up for not having the best HD chipset? Time will tell...

[Jan Crittenden Livingston]

Originally Posted by Charles Perkins

and that fact that xdcam is certified by discovery for full aquisition, and (i might very well be wrong on this)DVCproHD is not?

DVCPRO HD is certified by Discovery as a good number of their shows are produced on Varicams. I can think of American Choppers off the top of my head but I know there are a good number of others. I think they are still up in the air on P2, but if you can satisfy how to archive it back to tape, there shouldn't be a problem, and even that may change over time.

Hope that helps,

Jan

[Jan Crittenden Livingston]

Originally Posted by Robert Lane

If I read this right (as much as can be gleaned from a Japanese page) and this body will do over-under crank (the page mentions Varicam), then I've just found the perfect upgrade path from the HVX. Is this the same *approximate* release date as the HPX2100 and 16GB cards or is it slated for Q2/Q3?

The approximate release date is June/July of 2007, we should see real product at NAB. The HPX2000 will deliver starting in January/February.

Hope that helps,

Jan

[Paulo Teixeira]

Compared to the price of the VeriCam, the HPX500 is a very good deal. If this keeps up then we may see a much better camera coming out by the end of 2008 being under $10,000.00. Their will be a lot of new Producers popping up.

[Mike Schrengohst]

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira

Compared to the price of the VeriCam, the HPX500 is a very good deal. If this keeps up then we may see a much better camera coming out by the end of 2008 being under $10,000.00. Their will be a lot of new Producers popping up.

There already are.