red compression in DV mode at DVinfo.net

Faisal Lutchmedial · November 30th, 2006, 01:10 PM

I filmed an interview in DV mode (don't have enough p2 cards and this wasn't a vital thing) and got this result. Look at Dave's red shirt - and this blocky-ness lasts the entire interview.

http://www.lutchmedial.ca/frame.jpg

Should I expect to see this kind of artifacts with red - I know dv hates red, but this seems pretty extreme. I realize I am not talking HD here, but this is using the HVX so I thought it appropriate to talk about what it's DV capabilities are. I will include me settings here too:

(shooting 24pa on a mini DV tape)

Film Cam, 24 frame, 200d, detail 0, v detail 0, detail coring +6, chroma level -2, chromo phase 0, color temp 0, master ped -4, gamma cine V, Matrix Cine, Skin tone dtl off.

You should also know I am running FCP 5, did a quicktime conversion export jpg best quality.

Any suggestions what I could have done better (other than shoot HD!)

Mike Schrengohst · November 30th, 2006, 01:27 PM

That is DV.....
The HVX200 will shoot DVCPRO50 in SD either 4:3 or 16:9....
But you do have to use either the P2 cards or the firestore.....
Editing in FCP using DVCPRO50 will yield much cleaner results,
especially in the reds.....

Faisal Lutchmedial · November 30th, 2006, 02:18 PM

Yeah, I knew shooting in another format would have given better results, but like I said, that wasn't possible. Besides, shooting DVCPRO 50 480i 24pa takes up just as much space as 720p 24pn so it wouldn't have helped me and my meager 4 gig p2 card (when, oh when is my free 8 gig card coming!). In any case, I was just curious if there was anything I could have done, save changing Dave's shirt, to avoid such artifacts using the hvx with dv. I suppose the answer is: nothing.

By the way, I just changed the photo in the link to a close up which gives a better idea of what I was talking about.

Eric Peltier · November 30th, 2006, 02:44 PM

hhmm. it's quite a lot of blocky-ness even for DV. did you capture using DV codec?
are you checking your DV video on a NTSC monitor?
my bet is that it's actually looking better than that on a monitor.
e.

Faisal Lutchmedial · November 30th, 2006, 03:00 PM

On an NTSC monitor is just looks like a bit of a hazy redish blur around the edges. Not the end of the world, certainly, but I am always trying to tweek images to their best given the format. It still seemed like a lot of blocks even for the computer display. I captured using the NTSC DV Advanced Pulldown preset in FCP.

Andy Nickless · November 30th, 2006, 03:04 PM

Have you tried exporting QT movie - using Current Settings?
(NOT QT Conversion)

Andy

Faisal Lutchmedial · November 30th, 2006, 03:30 PM

Well, no, I was only referring to the jpg I posted, not exporting a movie. My final will be on a dvd, which I will eventually use compressor. Am I wrong in thinking you can only export a jpg though quicktime conversion? In any case it is what the video looks like.

Noel Evans · December 1st, 2006, 07:44 PM

In FCP apply color smoothing 4:1:1 or if you have nattress plugins g nicer.

Cole McDonald · December 1st, 2006, 08:03 PM

Filter away from red on the color wheel, then push it back in post...as little as possible to get good results. Experiment with it. The problem is when DV puts the reds to tape...so if you don't let it have as much true reds, it'll compress more friendly-like.

November 30th, 2006, 01:10 PM	#1
Faisal Lutchmedial New Boot Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York, New York Posts: 13	red compression in DV mode I filmed an interview in DV mode (don't have enough p2 cards and this wasn't a vital thing) and got this result. Look at Dave's red shirt - and this blocky-ness lasts the entire interview. http://www.lutchmedial.ca/frame.jpg Should I expect to see this kind of artifacts with red - I know dv hates red, but this seems pretty extreme. I realize I am not talking HD here, but this is using the HVX so I thought it appropriate to talk about what it's DV capabilities are. I will include me settings here too: (shooting 24pa on a mini DV tape) Film Cam, 24 frame, 200d, detail 0, v detail 0, detail coring +6, chroma level -2, chromo phase 0, color temp 0, master ped -4, gamma cine V, Matrix Cine, Skin tone dtl off. You should also know I am running FCP 5, did a quicktime conversion export jpg best quality. Any suggestions what I could have done better (other than shoot HD!)

November 30th, 2006, 01:27 PM	#2
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	That is DV..... The HVX200 will shoot DVCPRO50 in SD either 4:3 or 16:9.... But you do have to use either the P2 cards or the firestore..... Editing in FCP using DVCPRO50 will yield much cleaner results, especially in the reds..... __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

November 30th, 2006, 02:44 PM	#4
Eric Peltier Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Francisco/Paris Posts: 121	hhmm. it's quite a lot of blocky-ness even for DV. did you capture using DV codec? are you checking your DV video on a NTSC monitor? my bet is that it's actually looking better than that on a monitor. e. __________________ Sights Sounds Stories www.tinboxtwo.com www.reardenstudios.com

December 1st, 2006, 08:03 PM	#9
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	Filter away from red on the color wheel, then push it back in post...as little as possible to get good results. Experiment with it. The problem is when DV puts the reds to tape...so if you don't let it have as much true reds, it'll compress more friendly-like. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

November 30th, 2006, 02:18 PM	#3
Faisal Lutchmedial New Boot Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York, New York Posts: 13	Yeah, I knew shooting in another format would have given better results, but like I said, that wasn't possible. Besides, shooting DVCPRO 50 480i 24pa takes up just as much space as 720p 24pn so it wouldn't have helped me and my meager 4 gig p2 card (when, oh when is my free 8 gig card coming!). In any case, I was just curious if there was anything I could have done, save changing Dave's shirt, to avoid such artifacts using the hvx with dv. I suppose the answer is: nothing. By the way, I just changed the photo in the link to a close up which gives a better idea of what I was talking about.

November 30th, 2006, 03:00 PM	#5
Faisal Lutchmedial New Boot Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York, New York Posts: 13	On an NTSC monitor is just looks like a bit of a hazy redish blur around the edges. Not the end of the world, certainly, but I am always trying to tweek images to their best given the format. It still seemed like a lot of blocks even for the computer display. I captured using the NTSC DV Advanced Pulldown preset in FCP.

November 30th, 2006, 03:04 PM	#6
Andy Nickless Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Worcester. United Kingdom Posts: 197	Have you tried exporting QT movie - using Current Settings? (NOT QT Conversion) Andy

November 30th, 2006, 03:30 PM	#7
Faisal Lutchmedial New Boot Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York, New York Posts: 13	Well, no, I was only referring to the jpg I posted, not exporting a movie. My final will be on a dvd, which I will eventually use compressor. Am I wrong in thinking you can only export a jpg though quicktime conversion? In any case it is what the video looks like.

December 1st, 2006, 07:44 PM	#8
Noel Evans Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 157	In FCP apply color smoothing 4:1:1 or if you have nattress plugins g nicer.