hvx200 compositing/workflow info needed at DVinfo.net

Tom Taddeo · March 20th, 2007, 08:36 AM

We are shooting a feature with the HVX200 (out to film when completed). There's a lot of green screen being used for transitions in the film. It's quite confusing around the web on what workflow and camera settings that work best. We've been to several of the top boards, but still no solid answer.

Has anyone experimented with 1080i vs 720p vs etc vs etc when it comes to clean compositing? Any examples we can view or get from you on DVD?

Thanks for your time!

Eric Peltier · March 20th, 2007, 03:16 PM

my advice, especially if you're planning to transfer to film.
Shoot your Green screen with a better camera, like the Sony F900.
you'll end up saving money in the long run.
e.

Robert Lane · March 20th, 2007, 04:25 PM

Tom,

Eric's advice is a little off-base and unwarranted. The two biggest issues with getting a good key is proper lighting and the color space you're editing in. Obviously the best of all worlds for any compositing is un-compressed 4:4:4, however DVCPRO's 4:2:2 is superior for keying in any compressed codec.

If you're doing a film-out I would not suggest 1080i since you're shooting in an interlaced format; shoot 720p. This makes for a much better film conversion and aids greatly in keying.

The other thing to consider is that if you shoot your green-screen in a different system, such as the F900's HDCAM you'll be working with 2 different color spaces: HDCAM is 3:1:1, DVCPRO is 4:2:2. I've talked and worked with many editors who have attempted to match the two color spaces together and it's never a good looking fit. The F900 will have more resolution and an overall better looking image than the HVX because of the larger imagers and better lenses but your prime concern is color-matching the footage in post and, editing in the best codec you have available to you, which is DVCPRO.

Stick with the HVX and 720p and concentrate your efforts in a properly lit and exposed green-screen setup with a balanced IRE value and you'll do well.

Mike Schrengohst · March 20th, 2007, 05:10 PM

Shoot 1080 24pA, this will give you a slight resolution boost over
720 and I imagine you are posting in 1080 24p if you are going film out?

Test, test, test - Try the Bpress gamma settings to reduce noise or HD Norm with a -2 pedestal. Again it will all be determined by lighting and subject matter. Try Detail -3.
Go here for Green Screen material.

http://www.eefx.com/

here is a test we did for a client using the HVX and serious magic.

http://www.mediamax.com/mzhd2/Links/512C8FB6BD

Jan Crittenden Livingston · March 21st, 2007, 04:39 AM

Much of the interviews we shot on the Iditarod were green screen and we used 720P at 24PN. Looks good. See the web versions at www.panasonic.com/iditarod

Best,

Jan

Barry Kay · March 21st, 2007, 04:35 PM

My question is seeking clarification on the video format of the HVX200.
The brochure I have says: "The HVX200 records HD, either 1080i or 720p..."

My understanding was that 1080/60i means 60 fps @ 1080i (interlaced)

So, does 1080/24p mean, as I thought, 24fps @ 1080 (progressive)?

If anyone has time to answer such a basic question that would be great. I thought I knew; now I don;t know 4sure. I have a gnawing idea of a Great Conspiracy of Camcorder Manufactors who have a distinct goal to confused the general public (me and other) about: What is High Definition?

Of course we don't want to veer into politics, but you'd think some of the marketing people worked in the White House or something?

Mike Schrengohst · March 21st, 2007, 08:31 PM

Jan can probably answer this better than me - but all the 1080 DVCPRO HD footage is shot as 59.94 fps. 60i is 29.97 interlaced. 24p is 60i with a 3:2 pulldown cadance and is also 29.97 and 24pA advanced mode allows easy removal of the 3:2 pulldown to give you a 1080 24p file that you can edit in a 1080 p24 timeline. 1080 24pA is my preferred mode of shooting with the HVX200 unless I need slo-mo, then it's over to 720 24pN at 60 fps.

Tom Taddeo · March 23rd, 2007, 04:44 PM

Thanks to everyone for the info.

Mike, were you dollying in/out on the person on the green screen or was that a digital move/effect in post?

Mike Schrengohst · March 23rd, 2007, 06:31 PM

Hello Tom,

That was done using Ultra 2 Serious Magic.

http://www.seriousmagic.com/products/ultra/index.cfm

The camera was static.

March 20th, 2007, 08:36 AM	#1
Tom Taddeo Tourist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: new york Posts: 3	hvx200 compositing/workflow info needed We are shooting a feature with the HVX200 (out to film when completed). There's a lot of green screen being used for transitions in the film. It's quite confusing around the web on what workflow and camera settings that work best. We've been to several of the top boards, but still no solid answer. Has anyone experimented with 1080i vs 720p vs etc vs etc when it comes to clean compositing? Any examples we can view or get from you on DVD? Thanks for your time!

March 20th, 2007, 03:16 PM	#2
Eric Peltier Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Francisco/Paris Posts: 121	my advice, especially if you're planning to transfer to film. Shoot your Green screen with a better camera, like the Sony F900. you'll end up saving money in the long run. e. __________________ Sights Sounds Stories www.tinboxtwo.com www.reardenstudios.com

March 20th, 2007, 04:25 PM	#3
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	Tom, Eric's advice is a little off-base and unwarranted. The two biggest issues with getting a good key is proper lighting and the color space you're editing in. Obviously the best of all worlds for any compositing is un-compressed 4:4:4, however DVCPRO's 4:2:2 is superior for keying in any compressed codec. If you're doing a film-out I would not suggest 1080i since you're shooting in an interlaced format; shoot 720p. This makes for a much better film conversion and aids greatly in keying. The other thing to consider is that if you shoot your green-screen in a different system, such as the F900's HDCAM you'll be working with 2 different color spaces: HDCAM is 3:1:1, DVCPRO is 4:2:2. I've talked and worked with many editors who have attempted to match the two color spaces together and it's never a good looking fit. The F900 will have more resolution and an overall better looking image than the HVX because of the larger imagers and better lenses but your prime concern is color-matching the footage in post and, editing in the best codec you have available to you, which is DVCPRO. Stick with the HVX and 720p and concentrate your efforts in a properly lit and exposed green-screen setup with a balanced IRE value and you'll do well. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

March 20th, 2007, 05:10 PM	#4
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	Shoot 1080 24pA, this will give you a slight resolution boost over 720 and I imagine you are posting in 1080 24p if you are going film out? Test, test, test - Try the Bpress gamma settings to reduce noise or HD Norm with a -2 pedestal. Again it will all be determined by lighting and subject matter. Try Detail -3. Go here for Green Screen material. http://www.eefx.com/ here is a test we did for a client using the HVX and serious magic. http://www.mediamax.com/mzhd2/Links/512C8FB6BD __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

March 21st, 2007, 04:39 AM	#5
Jan Crittenden Livingston Panasonic Broadcast Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Secaucus, NJ 07094 Posts: 271	Much of the interviews we shot on the Iditarod were green screen and we used 720P at 24PN. Looks good. See the web versions at www.panasonic.com/iditarod Best, Jan __________________ Jan Crittenden Livingston Panasonic Solutions Company, Product Manager for 3D and Handheld Cameras

March 21st, 2007, 04:35 PM	#6
Barry Kay Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Rural, AZ Posts: 29	1080i or 1080p ?? My question is seeking clarification on the video format of the HVX200. The brochure I have says: "The HVX200 records HD, either 1080i or 720p..." My understanding was that 1080/60i means 60 fps @ 1080i (interlaced) So, does 1080/24p mean, as I thought, 24fps @ 1080 (progressive)? If anyone has time to answer such a basic question that would be great. I thought I knew; now I don;t know 4sure. I have a gnawing idea of a Great Conspiracy of Camcorder Manufactors who have a distinct goal to confused the general public (me and other) about: What is High Definition? Of course we don't want to veer into politics, but you'd think some of the marketing people worked in the White House or something?

March 21st, 2007, 08:31 PM	#7
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	Jan can probably answer this better than me - but all the 1080 DVCPRO HD footage is shot as 59.94 fps. 60i is 29.97 interlaced. 24p is 60i with a 3:2 pulldown cadance and is also 29.97 and 24pA advanced mode allows easy removal of the 3:2 pulldown to give you a 1080 24p file that you can edit in a 1080 p24 timeline. 1080 24pA is my preferred mode of shooting with the HVX200 unless I need slo-mo, then it's over to 720 24pN at 60 fps. __________________ Mike Schrengohst dvd.pro@verizon.net

March 23rd, 2007, 04:44 PM	#8
Tom Taddeo Tourist Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: new york Posts: 3	Thanks to everyone for the info. Mike, were you dollying in/out on the person on the green screen or was that a digital move/effect in post?

March 23rd, 2007, 06:31 PM	#9
Mike Schrengohst Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 355	Hello Tom, That was done using Ultra 2 Serious Magic. http://www.seriousmagic.com/products/ultra/index.cfm The camera was static.