DVCPRO HD and high-def DVD

TingSern Wong · August 13th, 2007, 09:44 PM

I suspect the problem lies with your Toshiba A2 then. Maybe it is a buggy firmware?

Test it out on your A1 - if it works, you know where the problem lie.

Douglas Villalba · August 14th, 2007, 09:21 AM

From what I heard the A1 also had the firmware changed. So the test I did with the first generation of Toshiba HD DVD is not valid with the updated firmware.
I have heard that the new FCS2 can even have menus. When I first tried the A1 you could only play tracks without menus.
I am going to post on a more specialized forum to see what I get. They probably have gone through it already.

TingSern Wong · August 14th, 2007, 12:18 PM

Okay, let me know if you managed to find anything then.

Mark Donnell · August 19th, 2007, 08:38 PM

TingSern - I am interested in trying to make HD-DVDs using a standard DVD burner, but am unsure of how to convert the DVCPRO HD to a MPEG2 file. What is your workflow, and do you save the MPEG2 as a file and then import it into your HD-DVD burner program ?

David Saraceno · August 20th, 2007, 10:06 AM

Mark:

What platform and NLE are you working on with what DVD authoring program?

All I do is drop a DVCProHD clip into Compressor and elect a HD DVD MPEG2 or h.264 encoding preset.

TingSern Wong · August 20th, 2007, 10:07 AM

I am terribly busy with work right now. I will post this to you later. Sorry - to make you wait. Hope you understand. It will help if you tell me what software you have right now ....

I use Canopus Edius Broadcast, Sorenson's Squeeze, and Canopus ProCoder 3. For DVD authoring, it will be Roxio's DVDit ProHD. Basically, after editing the DVCProHD clip, I either use Sorenson's Squeeze or Canopus ProCoder 3 to output the HD DVD MPEG2 video. Sound will be WAV at 48Khz, 16bits. The preset allows the MPEG2 output to pass through DVDit ProHD without conversion. Because I don't have a Blue Ray or HD DVD writer, I output the DVDit ProHD's output into a Disc Image File, which I then burn it to a normal DVD using Roxio's Easy Media Creator.

Mark Donnell · August 20th, 2007, 01:35 PM

David and TingSern - Thanks for your replies. I am also using Edius Broadcast, but have not yet selected a HD-DVD encoder program. Procoder 3 Express came with Edius, but I didn't know if I needed a different intermediary program before the HD-DVD encoder program. I was thinking of using the Ulead MF 6 Pro program to do the HD-DVD encoding just because it is inexpensive. Any suggestions ?

TingSern Wong · August 20th, 2007, 07:35 PM

Mark,

I don't have ULEAD products - so I can't comment. I tried Canopus ProCoder Express (since it came with EDIUS Broadcast) - but, it is slow compared with Sorenson's Squeeze or ProCoder 3. Especially Squeeze - it will make use of ALL the available CPUs (multi-core or multi processors+multi-core) ... thus saving considerable amount of time to convert to MPEG2. On my system (dual Xeon 3Ghz - dual core) ProCoder Express gets 1.2 to 1.4 real time conversion. ProCoder 3 - on optimal streams can get 0.7 to 0.9 real time (faster than real time - in other words). Squeeze is so far the best - 0.5 to 0.8 real time.

Since ULEAD is cheap, it won't hurt your pocket to acquire a copy and try it out first. If it works and its output is compatible with your HD DVD authoring program - why not. You did not mention your HD DVD authoring program you have.

However, for preview quality - I don't even bother about using software. If SD is all you need for your clients (as opposed to HD) - just connect a cheap DVD recorder (JVC / Panasonic) to your component output and play it back from EDIUS timeline. 10 minutes video = 10 minutes of "conversion".

Mark Donnell · August 21st, 2007, 05:58 PM

TingSern - thanks for the reply. I have no time constraints, so I may try Procoder Express for the conversion to MPEG2. My actual "job" is as an anesthesiologist - high-quality video is a hobby for me. The Ulead program advertises that it will author HD-DVD and can print onto DVD-Rs with a standard DVD burner. My only other question is, after you export the timeline to your MPEG2 coding program, is the result just a file that you import into your HD-DVD authoring program ? Also, do you have to specify what compression the MPEG2 program must do to get a file that can be used by the HD-DVD authoring program ? I imagine the the original DVCPRO HD is probably compressed three or four times to fit into the HD-DVD authoring program.

TingSern Wong · August 21st, 2007, 07:35 PM

Mark,

Welcome to my world too. I don't work full time as a videographer as well. I am a multi-purpose guy. Part leg in IT world, another leg in photography, one hand in videography (and audio recording) and one hand in .... etc, etc. But I am totally familiar with the demands of videography and have done corporate videos in large quantities.

Back to your question - it depends on what your HD DVD authoring program can accept as input. You have to check ULEAD specifications first - whether it take MPEG Transport stream or MPEG Data (??? - not very sure off hand) stream. One of the MPEG stream has two files - *.mvt and *.wav (or *.aac, or whatever audio stream you have chosen). The other MPEG stream has something else - can't recall offhand. Can go back to check for you. Some DVD authoring program only accepts the Transport stream and some will take both, etc. Since I don't have ULEAD, you will have to check that aspect yourself.

So - yes, the output from ProCoder Express will be one or more MPEG files (one containing the video and another which holds the audio) which will be used as input into your HD DVD authoring program of your choice. ProCoder Express is not that flexible as ProCoder Version 3 - but, I suspect ULEAD will be more flexible in accepting what it can have as input. The key thing to watch out - you don't want ULEAD to do another round of 'transcoding' after you have output your MPEG file from ProCoder Express. Hence, you must make sure the parameters you set up in ProCoder Express will allow the MPEG file to 'pass through' ULEAD without it converting to yet another MPEG file. You will need to read ULEAD specifications to see what it will accept as a "pass-through" MPEG file.

*ULEAD might be able to burn a DVD directly without producing a DVD Image file - but, that's something which, again, only you can tell.

After you read through the ULEAD program specs (and if you are still unsure) - please let me know - and I will try to help you. Enjoy your HD video production then.

Mark Donnell · August 21st, 2007, 11:58 PM

Thanks - I'll let you know how it goes. Also, for other viewers, I just noticed that Edius has upgrade specials in place until the end of September. Owners of Procoder Express 3 can upgrade to full Procoder 3 for $ 199. I'm strongly considering that offer myself.

TingSern Wong · August 22nd, 2007, 12:31 AM

Hold your upgrade first ... put in ULEAD and see how ProCoder Express interfaces with ULEAD - if it works fine for you, and since you have no time constraints, you can stay with ProCoder Express. Of course, if you have requirements to convert other video formats, the ProCoder 3 is a better tool. Since you have one month and slightly more to evaluate this situation, you can throughly test out ULEAD + ProCoder Express combination and see if it suits you.

August 14th, 2007, 09:21 AM	#32
Douglas Villalba Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Miami, Florida, USA Posts: 479	From what I heard the A1 also had the firmware changed. So the test I did with the first generation of Toshiba HD DVD is not valid with the updated firmware. I have heard that the new FCS2 can even have menus. When I first tried the A1 you could only play tracks without menus. I am going to post on a more specialized forum to see what I get. They probably have gone through it already. __________________ Douglas Villalba - director/cinematographer/editor Miami, Florida, USA - www.DVtvPRODUCTIONS.com

August 13th, 2007, 09:44 PM	#31
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	I suspect the problem lies with your Toshiba A2 then. Maybe it is a buggy firmware? Test it out on your A1 - if it works, you know where the problem lie.

August 14th, 2007, 12:18 PM	#33
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Okay, let me know if you managed to find anything then.

August 19th, 2007, 08:38 PM	#34
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	TingSern - I am interested in trying to make HD-DVDs using a standard DVD burner, but am unsure of how to convert the DVCPRO HD to a MPEG2 file. What is your workflow, and do you save the MPEG2 as a file and then import it into your HD-DVD burner program ?

August 20th, 2007, 10:06 AM	#35
David Saraceno Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Inland Northwest Posts: 490	Mark: What platform and NLE are you working on with what DVD authoring program? All I do is drop a DVCProHD clip into Compressor and elect a HD DVD MPEG2 or h.264 encoding preset.

August 20th, 2007, 10:07 AM	#36
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	I am terribly busy with work right now. I will post this to you later. Sorry - to make you wait. Hope you understand. It will help if you tell me what software you have right now .... I use Canopus Edius Broadcast, Sorenson's Squeeze, and Canopus ProCoder 3. For DVD authoring, it will be Roxio's DVDit ProHD. Basically, after editing the DVCProHD clip, I either use Sorenson's Squeeze or Canopus ProCoder 3 to output the HD DVD MPEG2 video. Sound will be WAV at 48Khz, 16bits. The preset allows the MPEG2 output to pass through DVDit ProHD without conversion. Because I don't have a Blue Ray or HD DVD writer, I output the DVDit ProHD's output into a Disc Image File, which I then burn it to a normal DVD using Roxio's Easy Media Creator.

August 20th, 2007, 01:35 PM	#37
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	David and TingSern - Thanks for your replies. I am also using Edius Broadcast, but have not yet selected a HD-DVD encoder program. Procoder 3 Express came with Edius, but I didn't know if I needed a different intermediary program before the HD-DVD encoder program. I was thinking of using the Ulead MF 6 Pro program to do the HD-DVD encoding just because it is inexpensive. Any suggestions ?

August 20th, 2007, 07:35 PM	#38
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Mark, I don't have ULEAD products - so I can't comment. I tried Canopus ProCoder Express (since it came with EDIUS Broadcast) - but, it is slow compared with Sorenson's Squeeze or ProCoder 3. Especially Squeeze - it will make use of ALL the available CPUs (multi-core or multi processors+multi-core) ... thus saving considerable amount of time to convert to MPEG2. On my system (dual Xeon 3Ghz - dual core) ProCoder Express gets 1.2 to 1.4 real time conversion. ProCoder 3 - on optimal streams can get 0.7 to 0.9 real time (faster than real time - in other words). Squeeze is so far the best - 0.5 to 0.8 real time. Since ULEAD is cheap, it won't hurt your pocket to acquire a copy and try it out first. If it works and its output is compatible with your HD DVD authoring program - why not. You did not mention your HD DVD authoring program you have. However, for preview quality - I don't even bother about using software. If SD is all you need for your clients (as opposed to HD) - just connect a cheap DVD recorder (JVC / Panasonic) to your component output and play it back from EDIUS timeline. 10 minutes video = 10 minutes of "conversion".

August 21st, 2007, 05:58 PM	#39
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	TingSern - thanks for the reply. I have no time constraints, so I may try Procoder Express for the conversion to MPEG2. My actual "job" is as an anesthesiologist - high-quality video is a hobby for me. The Ulead program advertises that it will author HD-DVD and can print onto DVD-Rs with a standard DVD burner. My only other question is, after you export the timeline to your MPEG2 coding program, is the result just a file that you import into your HD-DVD authoring program ? Also, do you have to specify what compression the MPEG2 program must do to get a file that can be used by the HD-DVD authoring program ? I imagine the the original DVCPRO HD is probably compressed three or four times to fit into the HD-DVD authoring program.

August 21st, 2007, 07:35 PM	#40
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Mark, Welcome to my world too. I don't work full time as a videographer as well. I am a multi-purpose guy. Part leg in IT world, another leg in photography, one hand in videography (and audio recording) and one hand in .... etc, etc. But I am totally familiar with the demands of videography and have done corporate videos in large quantities. Back to your question - it depends on what your HD DVD authoring program can accept as input. You have to check ULEAD specifications first - whether it take MPEG Transport stream or MPEG Data (??? - not very sure off hand) stream. One of the MPEG stream has two files - .mvt and .wav (or .aac, or whatever audio stream you have chosen). The other MPEG stream has something else - can't recall offhand. Can go back to check for you. Some DVD authoring program only accepts the Transport stream and some will take both, etc. Since I don't have ULEAD, you will have to check that aspect yourself. So - yes, the output from ProCoder Express will be one or more MPEG files (one containing the video and another which holds the audio) which will be used as input into your HD DVD authoring program of your choice. ProCoder Express is not that flexible as ProCoder Version 3 - but, I suspect ULEAD will be more flexible in accepting what it can have as input. The key thing to watch out - you don't want ULEAD to do another round of 'transcoding' after you have output your MPEG file from ProCoder Express. Hence, you must make sure the parameters you set up in ProCoder Express will allow the MPEG file to 'pass through' ULEAD without it converting to yet another MPEG file. You will need to read ULEAD specifications to see what it will accept as a "pass-through" MPEG file. ULEAD might be able to burn a DVD directly without producing a DVD Image file - but, that's something which, again, only you can tell. After you read through the ULEAD program specs (and if you are still unsure) - please let me know - and I will try to help you. Enjoy your HD video production then.

August 21st, 2007, 11:58 PM	#41
Mark Donnell Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Silver City, NM Posts: 385	Thanks - I'll let you know how it goes. Also, for other viewers, I just noticed that Edius has upgrade specials in place until the end of September. Owners of Procoder Express 3 can upgrade to full Procoder 3 for $ 199. I'm strongly considering that offer myself.

August 22nd, 2007, 12:31 AM	#42
TingSern Wong Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Singapore, Rep of SINGAPORE Posts: 749	Hold your upgrade first ... put in ULEAD and see how ProCoder Express interfaces with ULEAD - if it works fine for you, and since you have no time constraints, you can stay with ProCoder Express. Of course, if you have requirements to convert other video formats, the ProCoder 3 is a better tool. Since you have one month and slightly more to evaluate this situation, you can throughly test out ULEAD + ProCoder Express combination and see if it suits you.