Going DSLR for wedding videography
 

I'm a wedding videographer who shoots with Sony FX1000, FX1, etc. I'm seriously thinking of going DSLR.

Is the Panasonic GH2 and it's lenses an ideal starter cam for video purposes? There seem to be so many options now: the Rebel series, the Canon 60D, etc. I don't know what to start looking at. When it comes to video cameras, I know what's what and what I like. When it comes to DSLR, I know little except that I've had a Canon 40D and I loved the images. I do know I love canon lenses.

Any thoughts from experienced wedding shooters that use DSLR? Full frame cameras are absolutely out of the question due to budget constraints.

Can a suitable cam and lenses be put together for under $2K?

Hi Jeff,

I'm in a similar boat to you but will still use a camcorder as my primary cam. My V1p is starting to look very tired against footage from newer cams, and as part of my upgrade I want to incorporate more DSLR - using the GH1 I already have and probably getting a GH2 as well.

If you want a DSLR as a secondary camera, then $2000 should get you a fairly useful setup - something along the lines of a body, a wide zoom (Tokina 11-16 for Canon or the 7-14mm for the GH2) plus a nice fast prime and maybe even a glidecam 1000.

I just shot a wedding and did some experimenting with a 5dmkII, 17-70mm lens and a glidecam and was absolutely blown away by the results. I didn't really like working with the Canon, but the super wide-look espescially coupled with the stabiliser is just amazing for some shots like dancing or walking. I'm looking forward to turning my GH1 into a similar set-up with a super-wide lens, which should give me a really lightwight steadycam rig.

If you want to go all DSLR, then you'll be looking at a significantly higher investment. Something along the lines of 2-4 bodies, (2 cams, each with a backup in case of overheating, and so you can have bodies already prepared so you don't have to switch lenses). Then you'll also need a rig/shoulder mount/cage or something similar so you can mount an audio recorder like the Zoom H4n, a follow focus, and all the other things you'll want to make a DSLR more video friendly.

As far as the GH2 goes, I don't know but I have got a GH1 and love it. Small, simple and versatile. I haven't used it on a wedding yet but will very soon. I've shot some promo pieces with it and the clients were blown away by the pictures it produces. It's mainly my "fun" camera at the moment but hopefully that will change soon.

John, thanks tons for your detailed response. I had forgotten abou the 12 minute limit (you mentioned overheating). This is a reminder as to why I hadn't made this move before. SO many complications for a multicamera wedding shoot. Could handle everything else, but the 12 minute limit? No way.

My "seriously consideing going DSLR" has been replaced with wait and see again.

I can only hope a camera manufacturer will start producing videocameras with DSLR sized chips, like the new Panasonic, but more affordable and with the features of the videocameras we use now.

The HV30 uses a 1/2 chip, why not a full 1" or more?

The GH1/2 don't have the overheating problem, nor the 12 minute limit (although Europe has a 30 minute limit). That was why I picked it over the Canons - because it also can be used effectively as an unmanned camera up the back of the church. So for that purpose it gives you the exact same functionality as something like an XR550 - and more, in fact.

Incidentally, the HV30's chip was 1/2.7" so closer to 1/3" than 1/2", but I know what you're saying. At the moment it seems the only missing link is smooth zoom - the AF100 and to a show lesser degree the VG10 have shown that these chips can be effectively integrated into a camcorder, now we just need a power zoom to match the functionality of current prosumer cams.

Keep in mind that the GH2 is not a D-SLR (since it doesn't have a mirror, a penta-prism or an optical viewfinder).

Actually the 12 minute recording limit hasn't been an issue for me - you just need to manage around the ceremony or a long toast. Biggest issues I've found are lack of autofocus, quality of audio and ergonomics - having quick access to controls on body of camera. Despite these drawbacks I'm shooting more and more on DSLR. Probably phase out the video cam by next year.

GH2 has autofocus, but I've never used it. From everything I've read the GH2 is the best out right now in terms of IQ. I'm having a little buyers remorse buying a t2i as a b-cam.

Yes, after doing some quick reading the GH2 seems best for weddings...didn't realize it didn't have the 4GB limit, that is very good news. And yes, the HV30 chip is smaller than I thought, thought it was closer to 1/2 inch...oh well.

I'm going to be reading more on the subject, but I feel very inclined to put up my FX1 for sale!

I know how you feel! I wouldn't sell my V1p though, as I'll need something to play back all those 100's and 100's of HDV tapes with.

The low light capabilities, the dynamic range, the colour rendition, the lens choices, the DOF control; there are just so many areas where DSLR/hybrid camera's put my "professional camcorder" images to shame.

It looks like Panasonic in particular have tackled all of the issues and almost solved some of them completely (in both the AF100 and the GH2). The moire, codec issues, AGC, record limit, soft images, lack of autofocus, etc have been fixed in either one or both of their latest cams. If I had the ability to zoom smoothly and silently with a GH2, then I would have no reservations in leaving behind fixed lens camcorders completely.

Hi Jeff, we are in the same both basically. I fear the 12 minute limit coz I shoot solo. I have done research before I actually dive in, you can put up a decent DSLR system for $ 2K. The super tacumar lenses can be had for less than $ 300, an Digital Voice Recorded should be around $ 100- $200, Rode shotgun microphone around $ 250. I think it is very important to have continous audio recording and B-rolls to offset the 12 minute limit. Instead of ditching my video camera I was thinking of having it as a B-Cam, shooting wide and non-stop (again to offset the 12 minute limit).

My 2 cents

John, the DSLR concept/trend is not new to me, I've been aware of it since it began, but never seriously considered it. Initially it seemed like a fad, and way too much work. Fast forward to present day, and last week I lost two gigs to competitors who now use DSLRs exclusively.

Additionally, I cannot stand to look at my own videos any longer. I am amazed at how great DSLR footage looks even in SD, at least on the web.

Am I correct that edited footage (when properly shot of course) when shown in SD is still superior to my FX1?

My first concern is outfitting the camera...I have no clue which lenses I would need. Will two (2) lenses be sufficient for wedding work, or are more required? Would a 30mm 1.4 and a zoom lens work?

Can you or anyone recommend the basic kit required to begin with this venture?

Noel, dont' forget as has been mentioned, the GH2 has no 12 minute limit! I believe with the 32GB card it's good for around 30 minutes, but I'm not sure.

Well I've not put any of my GH1 or other DSLR footage side by side with an FX1, but I can say that the footage compared to my V1p or the XHA1 I sometimes use is worlds apart. Clean, noise free images in ridiculously low lighting and very rich colours - thats before you even think about bokeh or particular lenses.

This will depend on whether you want it as your primary camera for the ceremony or not. For a main camera, you'll want to cover focal lengths from about 30-300mm (35mm equivelant), while keeping all the lenses relatively fast. If you want to use it for specialty shots only, then a nice fast prime and a wide zoom would be a good combo.

What are your thoughs regarding number of cameras you'd like to shoot with and what type? (ie do you want to eliminate camcorders altogether, or keep one as your main camera during the ceremony or just leave one un-manned for a wide shot?)

At the moment I'm just hooked on the look of a 17mm lens on a glidecam - it opens up so many possiblilites! I think I'll get the 8mm Samyang for my GH1 (16mm in 35mm equivelant terms) and a Glidecam within a few weeks to start using at weddings.

Initially, I'm thinking of offering a DSLR package with one GH2 as primary (with one backup video cam for wireless) until I could afford a second GH1. Specialty shots not a concern at this point. I'm actually moving away from artsy, cinematic, though with this camera it would be tempting, of course. I'm primarily interested in standard, conventional video with stunning images.

The major issue I see would be a fast zoom lens...extremely expensive. Shooting with a single GH2 would be challenging, to say the least. I believe a fast zoom would run $2K, though I haven't looked into it specifically.

Your 17mm on a Glidecam would be killer.

It's possible that with these kind of images my interest in the cinematic look could return. But generally speaking I'm tiring of weddings anyway, especially the fru-fru.

You can get fast zooms, just not not natively.

Something like the Tamron 70-200 f/2.8 can be had for under $1000 new. Of course you won't have autofocus, but if you buy the Pentax or Nikon mount version then you can use an adapotor with an aperture lever so you will have iris control.
From the comparisons I did, f4 on my GH1 is about equivelant to f/1.7 on my V1p. Seeing as I'm normally zoomed in quite a bit during the ceremony or speeches, the lens is usually at around f/2.2-2.6 which means anything faster than f/4.5 on the GH1 should be an improvement in low light.

The low light comparison sounds very promising. Sorry John, I didn't mean fast zoom, I meant a fast lens that zooms.

I had a Canon 40D and had no lens that was above 1.8, my photos were amazing. I never used a zoom lens, however, all primes. But I see using the GH2 I would need a zoom lens for sure.

I seem to recall a zoom lens under 2.0 was very pricey.

The Panasonic Lumix G Vario HD 14-140mm f/4.0-5.8, 28-280mm (35mm equivalent) kit lens might be worthwhile. It costs $729 separately, $500 as part of the camera kit. Of course you did say anything faster than f/4.0, and it is not....

I really want auto focus ability. I'd hate to get the lens and not like it though. I'll troll around and see who's using it out there or what some alternatives, if any, are out there.

The Panasonic might give different results but I just spent the last 3 days editing a video shot by 2 highly regarded pro videographers. It was a day in the life video shot with an EX-1 and a Canon 5D MK II. It seemed pretty obvious that the Canon was poorly suited for run and gun style shooting that you will typically have at a wedding. In an effort to keep up with the non-stop action, the Canon shooter never seemed to nail the correct white balance and sometimes he missed the exposure as well. Plus it was obvious that he just plain missed some shots. You can only fix so much in post. The Canon footage created a lot more work for the editor. FYI, this 5D was rigged with a Zacuto eyepiece and a follow focus and the shooter has a lot of experience with the 5D.

Appreciate your report Greg. Glad I'm not editing that shoot.

Well, with the Canon there are two disadvantages off the bat. A 12 minute recording limit, and lack of a hi-rez LCD. The GH2 does address these issues, at least.

I haven't used the Zacuto, never even seen one. Are they pretty accurate in how they present the image? I've wondered about them as I considered one when I had a DSLR...

Actually, since you mentioned white balance: I have been wondering about white balance and how you would change it on the fly with this cam. Or could you? More to investigate, for sure.

I'm hoping, at this early stage of my considering this venture, that the two issues addressed by the Panasonic would be significant enough to allow better results in a wedding situation.

I can tell you I just finished looking at cards, and I'd be looking at $500 just for cards. Pricey, eh?

Hey Jeff,

Just a heads up, Greg is right about the potential pitfalls of DSLR for weddings, and run and gun footage in general. I've shot about 8 weddings with mine now in the last 1 1/2 years but tons of other stuff. It's not easy, but in my mind worthwhile. When I jump back on to my XLH1 to shoot something, it's like taking a day off - it's so easy (relatively speaking).

I mix the 5d footage with the HDV when cutting a wedding, but my highlights and montage stuff is almost exclusively DSLR. HDV footage mixes fairly well in the timeline but looks soft by comparison. For the last couple of weddings, I've used a second camera op to run the H1 during the ceremony, then I use the DSLR almost the entire rest of the way.

Ken, would having an LCD such as the GH2 has make focusing, adjustments on the fly, etc easier, in your estimation?

For anyone interested, as I research the GH2 I see it has been tested on countless forums against other cameras. It is impressive, especially for the price.

Features: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRCt6...ayer_embedded#!

One thing I feel good about with this possible transition is I'm accustomed to shooting almost exclusively with a tripod, which is probably the best way to shoot with these cameras, correct?

Is that the case with you Ken? Do you go handheld? Merlin or Glidecam?

I can't imagine what is coming down the pike. Canon and Nikon will have to respond to the Panasonic GH2, and I would imagine whatever they whip up will be impressive. I love Canon lenses, and would love to wait and see, but I don't know.

Hey Jeff,

I've seen some of the Panny stuff and it looks really good. Focusing is the biggest issue, especially with fast lenses shooting wide open. If that GH2 autofocus is reliable, that's a big thing. Seems pretty cheap too relatively speaking. But then I paid 11k for an XLH1 HDV camera back in '06. So even a 5d looks pretty cheap by comparison. But even the H1 is cheap if you compare it to the old Betacam SP units from the 90's.

I shoot mostly from a tripod. I'm not at all a 'DSLR rig' kind of guy and I rarely shoot handheld. I do shoot from on a Glidecam 2000 with wider lenses. I recently picked up a shoe mount 7" LCD, which articulates (which is the biggest problem with the 5d LCD) I see that the GH2 lcd flips out and tilts which is nice.

Definitely the GH2 is going to attract a lot of buyers.

Work flow is a big thing for me and working off of cards is nice. Even just reviewing footage on the back of the camera is so much nicer. It's scary as hell sometimes to reformat and I find I store multiple copies of different drives. One thing about tapes is that you can just throw the tape on a shelf and let it collect duct for a few years...

This is the first footage I shot with the 5d 18 months ago. It's from a family wedding and so I wasn't worried. I had my hv30 there that I used for the ceremony, but I absolutely couldn't use it for the reception as the lighting was so bad. I had a 50mm f1.4 wide open on the 5d. It was all handheld too, but relatively speaking it turned out ok...

I have some more recent stuff at Love Stories On Film

Some really good replies here and lots of potential pitfalls explored. Ken's 5D2 video shows the unavoidable flash banding (ug) but shooting at f/1.4 would suggest his video makes the room look floodlit rather than candlelit. Is this how the couple want it remembered we ask?

I've used the GH1 and as Greg says - even that camera's no run 'n' gun tool. It's stock 10x zoom is so slow and the chips are (in 35mm terms) so small that a lot of the differential focus opportunities are lost simply because you're down the wide end to make sure you cover its auto-focus failings.

Two cameraperson shoots is where the DSLR/GH excels. The conventional camcorder doesn't bat an eyelid at long ceremonies or speeches and captures excellent audio with ease. Weddings are real-time happenings, you can't edit what you didn't get because of DSLR time-outs, white balance, ND fitting, focus issues, short zooms, no iris changes and cumbersome audio contraptions.

DSLRs are wonderful for the preps, the wedding breakfast, the evening. Even better if you're allowed to fit the fast prime and gather/experiment at will, knowing the proper videocam man is capturing the unfolding day.

The couple just love the arty footage as they won't have seen anything like this from their dad's camcorder but there's a break-even point to all this - most couples have employed you to capture everything that happens right throughout their special day. The more artily you do it the better of course, but miss anything out and there'll be some explaining to do.

tom.

What cards are you looking at? Class 4 from SanDisk have never failed in any camera I've shot video with including experimenting with a hacked GH1 at 30+ mbps.

One of the reasons the AVCHD standard was introduced was so that you don't have to buy class 10 cards like people are doing with the high-bitrate Canon DSLR's.

As you said Tom, great replies, including yours. This conversation is priceless.

Regarding autofocus on the GH1 you mention, the GH2 is reportedly much (2X) faster, but still the pitfalls of using a hybrid are still pretty obvious when reading your posts.

I still want to think that I could pull it off with these cameras if I could get 5-10 weddings under my belt with them, which I can, if I take it along as an extra piece of equipment.

I keep coming back to the Live view on the LCD for shooting video, I can't use viewfinders, my vision is too bad. Even on a videocamera I use only the LCD.

I found a 32GB Class 10 for $54, and figured I would need 10 for 5 hours of footage. Actually, I just looked at 32GB cards, and there's nothing much under $50...the class 4 aren't any cheaper, which makes no sense. The pricing on the 32GB cards is strange to me.

John, doesn't the GH2 require a 32GB card in order to get 30 minutes? That's what I've read, but I could be wrong.

Hi Jeff
I don't do weddings strictly wildlife stuff. But on my GH1 I get an hour on a 8GB card shooting 720p60. The GH2 at 1080 is a higher bit rate but I would think you would get at least 2.5 hours on a 32GB card.

Gordon Hoffman

Gordon, thanks for your respons....I have NO idea...I've researched a bit and just vaguely recall reading about 30minutes at 1080i...that was at the beginning of my reading. I've found nothing since then, and I might have been mistaken. 32GB sounds like a LOT of space for 30 minutes of footage.

If you are correct 2.5 hour would be nice, but a double edged sword. If something happened to a card, what a loss. But what a convenience to not have to concern yourself with changing cards for over 2 hours.

90% of my shootings are weddings and my main camera is EX1, but along with it I use Canon 1/5 and 7D,
I chose Canon because it was the first one to offer great video and f2.8 zooms with IS were available; to me non IS lens DSLR hand held footage is not acceptable, and I like to mix nice fixed shots with decent moving shots, either hand held or steadicam/slider footage. I love DSLR footage look and feel, it puts to shame any camcorder including my favourite EX1, but I wouldn't risk to film a live event like wedding with DSLR exclusively, I need to have that piece of mind that I have one camera rolling with wide shot, all in focus, good sound :)
But for creative shots DSLRs, considering price of the setup, are just incredible deal; sound - is not a problem, I don't use sound from DSLRs, 12 min single clip limit - is not a problem, as long as you're familiar with multiple cameras shooting concept.
I am replacing my EX1 with the RED Scarlet or maybe even Epic this year, but my 5D and 1D stay with me for a long time, no matter what.

You may be thinking of the GH1/2 imported into Britain. They have to have a 29 min, 59 second cut-off point for any video shot, otherwise the camera attracts more import duty (tax). Crazy, huh? It's bad enough the camera's crippled by not having a silent zoom, without the government hurting it some more.

tom.

Ahhh, that must be it Tom. Still curious as to how much space video takes up on a card, but what you say resolves the 30 minute thing I've been stuck on.

You have to be so careful when buying. The new Sony Alpha 55 looks to be a good DSLR for video work because of it's pellicle mirror and constant autofocus. But although it'll film for 30 mins, you can only film for 9 mins if you want the image stabilisation on. What? The vibrating chip IS gets so hot it shuts the camera down. You want to film with IS on in a hot climate? Look to 4 or 5 mins max.

Sigh. The proper camcorder does things properly.

tom.

That's too bad about the Sony. The GH2 at least has no heat issues, and appears to have been designed as much or more for video than photo...but I guess the fact that it is AVCHD makes that obivous.

I'm really trying to find a video of someone demonstrating the cam, but to no avail. Using the the touch screen for choosing where to focus sounds really amazing, and I really want to see that in use during video recording.

Edit: I found a demo on the Panasonic website...on the lower right side of the page. Very interesting...almost looks to good to be true: http://panasonic.net/avc/lumix/syste...2/control.html

Of course, even touching a screen while trying to follow a subject sounds difficult, I must admit. I can see myself tearing my hair out after missing a shot because I was trying focus on a subject that moved out of the frame.

Ive been following this thread but havent been posting.
The thing i love most about DSLRs at a wedding is how natural everyone stays when you point one at them.
They dont react at all. Then when they look at your camera they hold for a photo. Such beautiful footage of people looking right at the camera. A nod and a smile and they think the photo was taken. Slow the overcranked footage of someone smiling into a Shallow DOF lens an see what you've got! Golden stuff.

Griffin, you reminded me of that very thing...I absolutely hate the way people often react to video cameras.

I have become better at it, but even with the gentlest touch and the most careful of handling of people, some people just absolutely hate videocameras.

Speaking of slowing down footage, the GH2 offers some feature where you can record in slow motion or speeded up...can't imagine how it works...but sounds interesting....

Hey Jeff. Let me try to explain as simply as I can without sounding too condescending as you may or may not already know all about this.
I can imagine with the amount of posts you have I risk offending you but anyway, for the benefit of anyone who may need filling in....

Basically with both my 7d and T2i I can record in 50p mode. Basically this clip by default in Adobe plays at 50 frames per second. So there are twice the amount of frames passing by in the second as we are used to seeing. When I tell Premier to play this footage at 25 frames per second the footage plays at half the speed, and its smooooth. And then to add to this the generic built into premier slowmotion (or even better twixtor) to what is already taking place things can get very slow but remain very smooth.
The beauty of this is that its there but by default all clips play in realtime as per 'normal' 25fps footage.
Some shots scream 'slow me down'. Check this out

Ger, first of all, I can't imagine what could be offensive about your post, but thank you for being polite.

Despite the # of posts I have, I have absolutely no idea of how this DSLR thing works, and I am one of the least technically knowledgable people on this forum, so I can use any thing you can offer!

Second of all, that is AMAZING footage. I cannot believe the detail that stays after you slowed it down.

I am nearly speechless, and I'll tell you why. I see the amazing slo-mo in commercials and films and I'm so dazzled by it, never imagined that I would ever own equipment that might enable me to do that.

With my present video cameras slo motion look pretty rough, as a rule. So I thank you for posting.

The Panasonic brochure for the HMC40 shows that in 24mbps mode, you'll get about 160 minutes (just over 2.5 hours) in a 32GB card. Personally I'd prefer more smaller cards, maybe one 16gb card to give you plent of safety room for the ceremony and a few 4gb or 8gb cards for the rest of the day/secondary cameras.

With regards to slow motion, there is an option on the GH2 to shoot slow motion, at 80% or something like that. Panasonic don't give too much info on this feature but I think it saves the recorded file at a slower speed but at 24fps - this unfortunately means you don't have the choice to play it at normal speed later on - so you need to know exactly which shots you'll use it on in advance. Good for action sports, but not so good for live events. Of course there is still the 50p/60p mode which allows you to slow it down in post for super smooth slow-motion, but can still play back in realtime.

John, thanks for clearing that up about the cards and the slow motion feature. It would seem to be of very limited value, save for specific and rare occasions, I would imagine.

Its not my footage Jeff, just something that stood out to me on my surfing vimeo.
Since it was done on a T2i I felt it was pretty relevant.
Of course 50 frames per second is good,especially in combination with actually shooting with a high shutter speed to get each frame sharp. More frames per second would be even better. Then footage like this might even be possible....

There is always the AF100 as referenced on the first page. This is what I'm going with, coming from XHA1's. As much as the DSLR's capture the look I so desperately want, rigging one out can be fairly expensive. Buying a nice rig for handheld stuff to achieve good form factor can run a few thousand by the time you get a nice recorder and mic involved. The AF100 retails for $4700 and some change, but it's a "video" camera, with the form factor that I love. Onboard XLR, waveform, LCD, EVF, overcrank, the list goes on and on. For the money in my eyes the AF100 is a solid investment for me. Just think of the time you'll save in post production not having to sync up audio from a recorder. If your doing 40-50 good paying gigs a year, that's a lot of time you could be saving. And just like the old saying "time is money", how much are you really saving buying a DSLR?
Now that the AF100 is out, I can achieve the look I want, with the form factor I want.