Why? 4,300ºK is a fabulous place to be. It's far closer to matching the color temp of so-called 'Daylight' in the real world. The only 5,600ºK I ever see or want is in the shadows or top of a mountain scene. Otherwise, the sunlight that I've measured at the hours of the day that I actually shoot at... up till 9:00 AM and after 2:00PM is much closer to 4,300ºK. Heck, I have a special warm card that purposefully shifts my camera's manual WB towards 4,300ºK for people oriented shots.

You do realize that ambient daylight shifts enormously in CRI as well as Color Temp over the course of a day and that peak daylight color temps vary depending on geographic conditions?

Most everyone refers to "color temperature" on discharge lighting for the specs and LEDs too but its more technically called "CCT" or correlated color temperature because its a simulation. The only full spectrum light (despite a lot of hype) is real daylight or real tungsten with some rare exceptions here or there. Also, I don't know if there are small color temperature meters (usable for video/film) out there that will read CCT correctly but it would be interesting to see if some exist and it would also be good to know which (if any) camcorders that have color meters read and display CCT correctly (or not).

Most people believe and the consensus seems to be that daylight is between 5000K and 6500K so that's probably why they were concerned.

Well, not only that, but there's the issue of trying to color-match to other artificial lights as well. If they're "daylight" balanced, they'll likely be in the 5500-5600K range. My tungsten lights with a dichroic filter come in right at 5600K, and right at 3200K without the filter. Part of the reason I want color-balanced lights, is so I can use 5600K presets in the camera and avoid the compromises of manual white balance.

Also, I can't speak for the light in Maryland, but in Wisconsin on most sunny days, my camera's white balance is showing between 5000K and 6500K. It only dips down to the 4000 range when the sun is low in the sky in the morning or at dusk.

That's interesting about the difficulties in measuring the color temperature of LED lights. Once I get my copy of DVRack working again, I'll have to light a scene with the LED 500 and look at it on the vector scope. I'll be picking up some minus-green gel tonight, so I guess further experimentation is in order.

When lighting with the 500LEDs, I use my daylight preset and it looks good. The end result is all I care about. If there's a green spike, I don't see it in my flesh tones, or if I do, it looks OK. Just for fun I think I'll get some 1/8-green to see if there's any noticeable difference.

Hey, Bill. Got any stills you could share with us? Are you using all 500LEDs, or are you mixing with other lighting equipment?

Thanks in advance.

I just did a test shoot with the cheap LED panels that started this thread. This was shot with an EX1 with one panel overhead and another coming in from the right as fill. The fill panel was diffused.

No color correction. Not too bad for tabletop work, but these panels are very lightweight and fragile.

Forrest

Nice image, Forrest.

How fragile would you rate the panels? Are they transportable? Do you recommend reinforcement?

I just picked up a softbox kit from Coollights to test against my LED 500 - having a bulb issue (possible shipping) before I can really get down and dirty - but if $50 could get me another panel similar that throws 200+ watts or so of light, they're sure nice to tote around over larger lights, even a large softbox with huge bulb.

Yes I realize that. I also realize that true daylight is usually around 5600k, not counting for twilight or early morning hours.

Otherwise HMIs would be 4300k, wouldn't they?

Also, if a light is ADVERTISED as a 5600k light, then 4300k just does not cut it.
Period.

Hi Michael,

I'd rate them as very fragile. They're definitely a consumer level item, but will serve nicely for this tabletop shoot. I doubt that I'd recommend them for travel. They'd require some pretty good reinforcement since they're essentially made out of plastic and a thin backing.

But, you know, for a little more than $100 bucks including shipping they're pretty useful.

Hope that helps.

Forrest

You're very right about false advertising -but what's the point really? Truth in advertising or a light that's better balanced than the advertised rating?
What I can't tolerate is lights that are BLUER or More CYAN than they're advertised to be.
I spent too much time in LED research, testing and evaluation. I finally settled on filtered Seoul P7 clusters such as the Lupine Betty-X.
I also still use filtered hotlights which are inefficient but effective.

Surely what matters is how clean a white shows up on footage? For the eye to perceive a clean white, all that's needed is 5,000ºK on the nose on a white card. That assumes that you have a perfect sensor and signal processing in the CMOS.
"Most images that involve flesh tones, particularly of Caucasian persons will actually look pallid if lit with anything colder than 4,800ºK"
That's the sweet spot for Caucasian skin assuming an average background balance. If you're shooting reproduction of art or any still life that's color separation critical, then yes, 5,000ºK-5,600ºK is the sweet spot there.
LEDs are VERY different in how they interact with objects. It's the narrow band. It's not very 'real' when you consider the complexity of a stream of daylight interacting with all manner of surfaces. I'm designing an LED fixture that mimics full spectrum lights but delivers an aggregate of 5,000ºK. It should make objects look more natural - as though shot with daylight (To me, daylight is the combination of a massive diffuse skylight (generally 6,000ºK) pierced by source point , the sun-delivering between (4,000 and 5,000ºK) A soft bank of LED lights just mimics the skylight alone.

Ah! Yes. Production issues like hobbling presets can be a problem. My solution is to hand filter my LED lights to match my Incans with FULL CTB filters. That takes care of shifts. In fact, for what it's worth, I do the crazy thing of hand tinting my LED emitters with two sharpies to essentially alter their balance with out having to use gels.
OK, you read that here first ;)

Took a look on ebay at some so-called DJ lighting made by Chauvet (LED Techno Strobe ST-3000) panel and Chauvet (LED Rain 36) spot light. Could be useful. Hanging could be a little awkward. More like theatre lighting. Anyone try these...

Chauvet LED Rain 36 White DJ Lights Effect - eBay (item 380056771884 end time Sep-18-08 09:53:14 PDT)

NEW CHAUVET ST-3000LED DMX LED TECHNO STROBE LIGHT 3 ch - eBay (item 280264460865 end time Sep-16-08 18:48:28 PDT)

kj

Second item is actually a strobe (but looks like it can also be used as steady light.)

Careful with LED strobes - looks like they produce worst artifacts in EX1 and similar CMOS cameras:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/933029-post13.html

The second light, the panel led can be opeated in static mode.

NEW CHAUVET ST-3000LED DMX LED TECHNO STROBE LIGHT 3 ch - eBay (item 280264460865 end time Sep-16-08 18:48:28 PDT)

From some of the detail shots it looks to be really well made. Looks like you would need ac power cords. Anyone have an idea how they could be attached to a typical video light stand? I have a vast collection of Lowell Tota Stands. Could probably recycle the Lowell power cords as well.

kj

Here's a PDF of the users manual...

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/syste...3000LED_UG.pdf

kj

Here's the PDF for the Spot Light...
http://www.chauvetlighting.com/syste...-RAIN36_UG.pdf

kj

The unit has a yoke and a hole in the yoke so it should attach just like any other light with a baby stand to yoke adapter (also known as TVMP adapter).

I'm curious though why that one would be better than the 225 LED one on Ebay that started this thread. The price is quite different too but will it really be that much better for the price difference and it doesn't even have the same number of LEDs on it.

Thanks for the tip.
Quick search found a couple of TVMP adaptors...


Matthews | TVMP Adapter | 429492 | B&H Photo Video

Avenger E390 - TVMP ADAPTER(YOKE TO STAND)

Looks like it would be difficult/impossible to tilt the lights in a downward position. If you wanted to raise the light above a talent and have it shine down may be problematic.

kj

Yes, with a yoke like that, its really made more as a "grid" or ceiling type fixture. You really need a yoke that extends down from the sides and a fair ways below the fixture to use properly and get all the angles you might want.

Cool Lights LED 600
 

So we're getting closer on our LED Panel which is in production right now. The CL-LED600 should be out in early December if none of our other products hold it's availability up since a bunch are coming at the same time.

600 LEDs, 9 5/8" x 5/8" x 2 3/8" size. About 3 1/2 pounds weight (or so). Removable barndoors that slide out of an accessory holder. Angle adjustment stand adapter. Black powder coated aluminum construction. 12VDC power supply included: approximately 50w draw at 12VDC. Power input is via 4 pin XLR. Power supply includes a 6 foot cable from power supply to LED fixture and a 15 foot IEC type cord to power supply which has a carabiner on it to clip to some part of a stand rather than leaving it on the floor. Also includes a dimmer pot and bank select switches on the back. It will have two accessories as of right now that can also go on the back of the unit: either an AB Battery mount or a V Battery mount that can go on the back--customer installable. You can either get our battery mounts or probably use other ones too but I haven't tested any others than ours. The pricing for this panel will normally be $479 and $125 for the AB Mount accessory, $125 for the V Mount accessory. For a limited time, we'll be running a special for $379 for the panel and $99 for the battery mounts. As if all this wasn't enough, there is also a free padded nylon carrying case very similar to a laptop type bag but custom made for this panel. The size of the carrying case is 12" x 14" x 5 1/2". Pictures below.

Available in daylight (5600K) and a limited number of tungsten color units (3200K) available as well. Thanks for looking.

Hi Richard:

This looks very interesting. Do you have CRI and photometrics?

I may buy a few of these from you.

Thanks,

Dan

Thanks Dan. As for light meter readings, I'll take some next week and post as I need to get my meter which is in another city. CRI will be around 80 to 85 based on the LEDs we're using which is about as good as you can get for affordable 5mm and daylight white at this time. Ironically, you can find tungsten 5mm LEDs with better CRI but most people want daylight so that's what we needed to get.

CRI of 5mm LEDs depends upon a couple of factors from what I can tell--beam angle and color temperature influence the CRI you can have quite a bit. We started this project wanting to find a 20 to 30 degree beam LED so you'd have an instrument with super throw--really concentrated but a relatively small beam. One after another though, they all looked terrible. You'd get a halo around the beam that had a green or yellow tinge to it. The only way to minimize that effect if you wanted to use that beam angle was to go to 8000K to 9000K LEDs. The efficiency goes up in that range too and you get more lumen output.

While it may make a lot of sense, I didn't want to spend all my time explaining to people why I wasn't using 5600K ones so we skipped using those and went to a 60 degree LED. Less throw, but you can use 5600K LEDs and not have the halo and the beam is wider anyway so you can cover a larger area with the fixture. When I make a future on-camera smaller panel though we may have a 8000K version on that because it can make sense to have a sharp beam that can cut through things really well and be as efficient as possible for a small light.

Richard.... I'll take 4!

also... have you ever considered a fresnelish plastic sheet that would slide in front of the panel to focus the beam narrower? I picked up a sheet at officemax that is meant for overhead projectors. Also have one that is meant to be stuck on the rear window of a rv or van to give a wide view of behind the vehicle... this one widens the beam. These sheets are only about $10! and can be cut down to size. They appear to be very color neutral.

Keep up the good work! Your 150 daylight Fresnel's have been a fantastic addition to my kit!

Sounds very promising, please give us a heads-up as we get closer to availability, I will definitey be interested in one or two.

Dan

Hi Richard,

I'm interested as well, but save a couple of the 3200k units for me. My largest retail client just completed re-lighting their 1000 plus stores using high-efficiency fluorescents that put out light at 3100 degrees kelvin. (I think it's all about energy costs!)

It's surprised me quite a bit at how warm the light was, but it's really sweet to be able to use all my tungsten gear for highlights!!!

So don't let all the tungsten LED units go away without letting me know!

Take care.

Christopher - what's that Officemax sheet part number or link, please?

So, you actually used those on your existing LED panel and it really has that effect? I have considered those before but never really thought they would do anything. Does sound very interesting--particularly since we have an accessory slide on the front of the panel...

One person sent me a huge list of questions so I thought I would use it to start a FAQ. I'm sure many will have these questions so it may help some.

1) What is the quality and output of the LED lights? Is it as good as or better than the Lowel gear I currently use?

Photometrics to be posted soon. As for questions about comparisons to specific lighting gear I don’t have enough data to be able to tell at this time. In general I would compare it to a 600w Fresnel somewhere in between narrow and wide beam but probably closer to the wide beam setting. When we get the photometric data, that will confirm it.


2) For interviews and small location use, would I be better off with fluorescent lights? Or are your new LEDs capable of excelling in that context? (I'm a bit reluctant to go with fluorescents because of bulb fragility).

LEDs and fluorescents both have their place for sure. Some think that LEDs will replace fluorescent, HMI and tungsten but in my opinion that is a long ways off—if for no other reason than from a cost standpoint.

I view LEDs as usable in specific instances where light can be well controlled and also where power availability is at a premium. For instance, such a panel would be great for filming subjects in a car at night. Or how about a walking interview down a busy sidewalk at night. Other uses would be the person taking video in a cave or out in the wilds of Africa at night filming animals. Notice I said “night” in all those instances. Such a light would be quickly overpowered by real daylight and even fluorescent softlights with their inherent falloff have difficulties. We have people tell us all the time they are able to use fluorescents such as a 4x55w or a 6x55w in a room where daylight is streaming in but I also know there are such situations where it doesn’t work too—particularly if you were actually outside during the day on all but the most overcast of days. That’s what the CDM 150 and all such fixtures in HMI class are for—competing with daylight with their superior throw and projection ability. Every tool has its place in the kit and the proper place to use it. None of them are good everywhere.


3) How many hours are your LEDs rated?

The rating is 50,000 hours. The warranty period is 1 year.


4) Do your LED lights suffer from a green tint like the Flolight LEDs? If so, what workarounds do you suggest?

No, they were chosen based on their CRI which is in the 80 to 85 range. Anytime you see a green bias like that its simply a CRI issue. Daylight white LEDs are some of the hardest to get in a good CRI. Go to 8000K or 3200K and it’s less trouble to get a superior CRI. Daylight 5600K 5mm LEDs though, because of the way “white” is implemented with 5mm LEDs are particularly tough to get right without going to a super expensive solution or a 1W to 5W type LED configuration. We do have planned a multi-1W LED panel solution and I think that will have its own uses and market as well.


5). What is the beam angle of the LEDs?

60 degrees. We experimented with the 15 to 30 degree range but found the CRI to be terrible for real daylight LEDs so we dropped back to the first suitable range where CRI came back to being usable. A 15 to 30 degree 5mm LED would be great for a small on camera light but you’d need to go to 8000K to get a really good CRI. What you get in return is about the best lumen output you can get from 5mm LEDs and great throw but a relatively small beam. We even tried some 45 degree LEDs but they still had the CRI issues. Otherwise, the 60 degree 5mm LEDs are about where I consider them to become useful. That is, until someone makes a better quality 5mm narrow beam angle LED in a price range that’s makes them useful.


6) Will your LED lights mix well with daylight and other light sources? For example, if I gel my Lowel lights to daylight? Or if I use LED lights from other companies, such as an on-camera light for an eye-light or front fill?

So far in my tests, I think these LEDs do mix well with daylight or some other fluorescents or HMI we have tried. I don’t have the facility to test against other products like the Lowels. As I said earlier though, I think these things excel in use by themselves in particular instances where nothing else would work. I think flos are particularly still a great choice for mixing with tungsten or HMI when you’re doing work in normal settings.


7) Will you be including gels for 3200K, color wash FX, and diffusion?

Not at this time. Otherwise it's best to just get the tungsten version if thats what you need. The reason being you'll lose less light than with gelling. I think the best accessory in that area would be a full CTO filter plastic panel that can slide into the accessory frame. Someone also mentioned that the plastic “fresnel” type panels used on overhead projectors work very well for focusing the beam of an LED type fixture and are available in wide and narrow so a couple of those panels would make a great future accessory as we can find them and make them available.


8) How do gels attach?

Gels could attach to the barndoors with clips as many do today. No gel frame at this time. We do have an accessory slide in where the barndoors go. This is just a channel with adequate room for various kinds of modifier panels can go if you take out the barndoors.


9) What does "slideout barn door" mean? How does that work?

As mentioned in the previous example, the barndoors simply slide into the accessory channel and lock into place with a spring loaded lock similar to the way barndoors lock into a Fresnel accessory holder. Having something else in there at the same time is not possible though and you would need to slide the barndoors out to be able to use some kind of light diffusion or modification panel or filter.


10) Will you include reflective attachments for the barn doors similar to Flolight's LED fixtures?

Yes, we’ll use reflective intensifiers attached with Velcro.


11) What batteries will work with the lights? Voltage range? What do you recommend?

I recommend something in the 150WH range in AB or V mount types which are normally around 14V to 15V or so. I haven’t done the tests yet with various kinds but will be by end of October.


12) Can I hook up batteries or battery belts without requiring the optional adapter plates?

Yes, the power input on the back of the unit from our enclosed power supply is a 4 pin XLR male. Thus, if you have a power accessory with a 4 pin XLR female on a cable, you could attach to that power connector and replace the power supply with whatever it is you have. I recommend using only voltages in the range of 12v to 15V DC though.


13). What is the power consumption?

About 50 watts at 12VDC.


14) Do you sell stands for them? What do you recommend and how much do they cost?

Yes we have stands on the site—5 different models from small to heavy duty C-Stand. Something like our CL-LS3 stand is very small and lightweight and a good pairing with this fixture.


15) Will you offer cases for a kit of two, three or four?

The only case we offer at this time is the free one for just one unit. I have other cases, but they are very large and not meant specifically for this fixture. We’ll see what demand there is for multi-cases and make one available as that becomes more clear.


16) Will you offer an extra discount when purchasing multiple lights?

No other discounts at this time. We are already a manufacturer direct pricing model and heavily discounted.


17) Will the lights actually ship in December, or not until next year?

Hopefully by December if no unforeseen delays come into play.


18) Will there be any way to use remote dimming control or DMX control with these lights?

No DMX capability at this time.

Is this a comparable light?

(I realize that one is for 220V, but how does it compare otherwise?)

That's the Lishuai 500 panel Flolights sells. The "Cinelight" guy is in Romania and is just another dealer for that panel. Apparently he only sells it in 220v version. By the time you ship it here it's almost the same price as Flolights sells theirs for.

Understood!

this place has been good to me.....

Buy Fresnel lens,Fresnel Lenses,Fresnel lense

they have both mag and wide.... make your beam narrow or spread it wider.

also... check out their polorizer sheets... put these on lights and an optical grade pl on your camera and things really get interesting.... vibrant colors like kodachrome!

Hi Richard
Your LED's look fantastic! I want to by two of both 3200k and 5600k! is there a newsletter I can sign up to or pre order?

// t

Hi Tobias,

Just send an email to info@coollights.biz letting me know specifically what you want and we'll put you on the list. Thanks.

Richard,

Do you ever make it to Beijing? would love to see one of your lights. Is there any dimming function at all on them? can you turn off strips of LEDS to reduce output?

Dan

Hi Dan,

Yes I do sometimes. Don't have a trip scheduled right now but send me your email address and we'll see if we can meet. Yes there is both continuous dimming and 5 bank select switches so people that don't like color temperature shift during dimming (everything shifts color from flos to hmis and even tungsten really) can just use bank select switches.

Hi Richard,

The CL-LED600 looks terrific. I'll email you for inclusion for advance notice of the debut.

They look like winners, in both color temperatures.

I am unclear about the 12volt power supply included as rechargeable or battery not included.

My best,

Mike

Litewave | A new led light for the film and television industry that gives you total control | Features

Can I ask if anyone has any thoughts or comments about this LED light and what it might be useful for?
thanks