Strictly DIY fluorescent
 

This is one project that might be interesting to those that are willing, as I am, to build a cheap fluo head using 55 watt Biax 4-pin lamps.

Those lamps come in different types, and I am still investigating who is manufacturing. As far as I know, GE and Osram do make them. Lowel uses the Osram types on their Fluotec and Caselite types.

This is the first thing everyone interested in this project should do: see if any of those lamps are available in your country or city.

There are different wattages, color temperatures and CRI you should find. All can be used, but you should know what you get.

Wattage can be 36w and 55w. Color temperature can be 3000K, 3200K and 5600K, though you may find aquarium types that are 9325K with a low CRI (67) and are not good for us. CRI should be as high as possible, and you should find close to CRI 90 types. The closer to 100 the better.

Color temp can be corrected a bit, using gelatines or color celophane, but it will rob a great part of your light.

Next you should try to find what ready-made packages are being made for those 4-pin lamps. Application to look for should be compact, if possible, like a metal or plastic box.

The ones I found can hold one or two lamps, are metal types about 5cm thick. They have a frosted glass that can be used or not, held by a screw.

What a friend of mine suggested was finding a way to pile up up to four of these boxes, to get up to 440w from a single block.

At first I thought of screwing or locking them onto each other, but now I think I can use some kind of U-shaped aluminum profile that might allow sliding the blocks through a removable top of some kind, even if that might not be essential, as a screw of some kind or a wedge might hold the blocks in place.

Then I should provide an U-shaped flat bar, to be screwed on each side of the U profile and screwed on to a tripod.

Independent switches should be provided for each lamp.

This is the basic idea and where I got till now on my plans. I would be interested in having some feedback or ideas to improve on this project. Perhaps someone has already worked on a similar concept and might have some thoughts on what will work and what will not.


Carlos

Carlos, have you got any photos you can share?

<<<-- Originally posted by John Sandel : have you got any photos you can share? -->>>


Not yet, but I should have this week.


Carlos

Please keep us posted. Sounds interesting.

Yeah, Good job.
Can't wait for those photos...

I checked with a local metal shop and a nice box can be fabricated out of aluminum or steel for about $70. The only part I need to figure out is the reflector. Polished surface stuff seems hard to find.

M

<<<-- Originally posted by Mike Cook : I checked with a local metal shop and a nice box can be fabricated out of aluminum or steel for about $70. The only part I need to figure out is the reflector. Polished surface stuff seems hard to find.
-->>>

The packages for two-lamps that I mentioned already have reflectors. Even if they didn't, gluing aluminum sheet from cooking roll types should be easy.

The good thing when a reflector is properly done is the light concentration it provides.

First move
 

Ok. Today I bought the first module parts.

The holding box, designed to be held from the ceiling, is a sheet metal type, painted white.

It's 28" long X 6 1/3" wide X 2" thick.

The one I found has a protection/diffusion glass that you can unscrew. This you should do for this application, as the glass is quite heavy, thin and long. If you do locations with it, I don't think it will last long. So let's get rid of it.

After you eliminate the glass plate, the box, even with the ballasts inside, is quite light. It might be possible to find a box with no glass, so you won't pay for something you won't be using. This I will try to find out too.

One of the reasons for the box being light is that it has no back plate, as it was designed to be clamped to the ceiling. A back plate of some kind should be provided, something which we should take care later on if we are going to pile several modules.

Behind the lamps there's a polished flat aluminium reflector, so most of the light won't be wasted.

A pleasant surprise was to discover that the ballasts are bi-volt types, working from 127v or 220v AC. These ballasts are high-frequency flicker-free types, feeding just one lamp each.

There might be different ballast brands available, and that deserves some further investigation. One guy at a lamp shop once told me there were better ones, but I can't remember the brand. As the ballasts go inside the steel box, there shouldn't be any RFI emissions coming from them.

The lamps have no specified voltage, only saying they are 55W types and the color temp. In my case they are 3200 K.

The lamp box has two 4-pin lamp sockets inside and two lamp holders close to the other end. This is very good as the lamp then will not move.

Money spent until now: about $80. This might be a bit less if you live in the US or Europe, as many of these parts are imported here.

The next step would be to find an U-shaped aluminum profile that will allow sliding in the modules horizontally.

I will try to put some photos here when I get further on.


Carlos

FL-500 Imager
 

Carlos - well done!

Here in the UK I haven't been a slouch either . .. I've tracked down this item - still need to find a supplier.

* 30cm x 30cm x 7cm

* 3 x 55 watt (?)

* 3 lamp switchable light ganging

i) Middle one
ii) Outer 2
iii) All 3

* Barn doors

* Edge support clamp (?)

* Option to purchase a pack of filters

But looking real close it would not seem as robust as I need:
-----
Moderator note: the link previously posted here has been removed at Graham's request due to concerns about a possible virus on that site
-----
However the thing is being offered at around £125 . . . can't be bad.

Grazie

Carlos,

Sounds very interesting.

Would you mind posting the brand/model# of the parts you have bought so far, and who you bought them from.

Thanks,
Pete

I've been talking to some electricians and was pointed to this site that has some good info on dimming ballasts
http://www.lutron.com/ballast/ballast_prod.asp

<<<-- Originally posted by Samuel Birkan : I've been talking to some electricians and was pointed to this site that has some good info on dimming ballasts
http://www.lutron.com/ballast/ballast_prod.asp -->>>

Thanks, Samuel. Those Lutron ballasts, particularly the two-wire dimming types, certainly look interesting.

http://www.lutron.com/ballast/ballast_tuwire.asp


Carlos

<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos E. Martinez : Those Lutron ballasts, particularly the two-wire dimming types, certainly look interesting.

http://www.lutron.com/ballast/ballast_tuwire.asp
-->>>


Correction. Further reading tell me that the tuwire model might not be used with 55W lamps. They only seem to accept up to 50W lamps, which BTW I didn't know existed.

On the other side I am not too worried on dimming these lamps either, so maybe we should let go on that one and stay with simpler independent switches. We might be opening another can of worms if we don't.



Carlos

I was actually looking at the "Hi-Lume" with a T5-HO lamp.
One question I have is this, with a dimmer would the color temp not change as you dimmed ? Maybe it would be better to have each tube switched then you would have "steps" of brightness !

Re: FL-500 Imager
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Graham Bernard :

But looking real close it would not seem as robust as I need:

However the thing is being offered at around £125 . . . can't be bad.
-->>>

They look very good, Graham. They have several advantages:

- Good price
- They seem to be light weight
- Aluminum made, so should take a beating well.
- Have barndoors
- Have a support

Disadvantages:

- Lamps are up to 27W only. To use 55W lamps, perhaps box might have to be larger and heavier. Pity they didn't try it yet.
- Box support might demand using sand bags on the light stand base. Thought this might be a requirement on my project too.

An excellent suggestion, anyway. The lamp max wattage is the main limitation.


Carlos

<<<-- Originally posted by Pete Wilie :

Would you mind posting the brand/model# of the parts you have bought so far, and who you bought them from.

-->>>


I am glad you are interested, Pete.

The only brands I can mention that you could find locally are the Osram 55W lamps. They are called Dulux L, 55W/840 types. Made in Italy.

The boxes are made here in Brazil, and you should find probably other types, perhaps better ones, close to you.

Home Depot might be the best place to start. Ask for boxes for 55W T5 luminaires, and they should show you what they have. Look for non-recessed types, with a box holding it all.

You might find interior design types that are expensive, which may not what you need.

Sorry I can't help further on that.


Carlos

Hiyah Carlos!

Here are some more ideas ..

These are the sunken ceiling boxes:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MD418.html


These will be at NAB 05 - $499 ? They also have decided to go with ganging the lamps in various cmbinations. The dimmable ballasts - at least here in the UK are very "expensive" !
http://flolight.com/flo1400.htm


Dimmable ballasts here:
http://www.arlen-efa.co.uk/pages/all_detail_print.asp?ProductID=211


Lots of ideas!

Grazie

<<<-- Originally posted by Graham Bernard : Hiyah Carlos!

Here are some more ideas ..

These are the sunken ceiling boxes:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MD418.html


These will be at NAB 05 - $499 ? They also have decided to go with ganging the lamps in various cmbinations. The dimmable ballasts - at least here in the UK are very "expensive" !
http://flolight.com/flo1400.htm


Dimmable ballasts here:
http://www.arlen-efa.co.uk/pages/all_detail_print.asp?ProductID=211

-->>>

Great, Grazie!

The Flolight looks very good and quite reasonably priced. Even if I believe we can DIY an 8-lamp setup for half that price, their craftmanship seems excellent.

Those specific ceiling boxes are not for U-shaped lamps, but there should be a model for them.

The problem with sunken boxes is that they do not have an external box, if you want to do a modular project.

But if anyone wants to do a multi-lamp project, using a different approach might be better, perhaps with something like this:

http://ahsupply.com/36-55w.htm

These people also sell some aquarium wooden enclosures, but they shouldn't hold too many lamps.

If anyone can find a metal box, open on one side and preferably aluminium, that is about 20" x 25" x 5" to hold eight 55W lamps, that might be a way to go too. But I think that might be too much luck.


Carlos

FYI... Anyone who has visited the site listed above:

http://www.apv-photo.com/

may want to run a virus scan on your system. My VCOM (Trend Micro) alerted me that I had recieved a virus from the server.

Until this is either varified as true or false, proceed with caution.

Thanks Daniel - My set of virus checkers have drawn a blank. Have you details of the virus?

Grazie

Use Trend Micro to detect it
 

Here is a screen-shot from when I hit the site each time.

http://www.danielpatton.com/dv/trend...irus-pic01.jpg

If I clean the infected file/folder and then re-visit the site... BAM I get the same virus warning.

I called the owner of the site and told him he should look into it, we'll see I guess.

FYI: At Graham's request I have edited out the URL in question.

Good idea, sorry to have re-posted it that way.

New light fixture
 

Sorry to have been away so long, but I was shooting a doc for about two months now.

The Biax 4-pin fluo-heads project had an unexpected turn about two weeks ago.
My documentary was mostly interviews, first in Rio de Janeiro and then in Buenos Aires. Shooting with a Sony PD170 and very small crew.

The question for me was how far could I force this minimum crew/simple equipment formula without going down in quality.

I couldn't test the two-lamp boxes I had found in Rio, which I didn't take to Buenos Aires because I expected to find something similar there. Not really, as the fixtures using 55w lamps I found there were far from portable or practical.

The only one I found that looked promising used one 36w lamp, but was not in stock at the store. No luck for that same type on other stores, so I kept calling to see when the fixture arrived. When it did I went get two.

It's a plastic and metal long box, all self contained with a small lateral switch. Made in China. Price: $20! Lamp included!

The thing is great. It's so light weighted that I used my Manfrotto monopod, which has three small retractable legs down below, to tape it to. And it throws lots of diffused light, which should need some control perhaps, but it's great for portraits. The light is so cold that I used cheap paper tape to hold it to the monopod.

Brand is probably a fake one, so don't ask me. There should be something like that in the US: look for it. It's great for doc work.


Carlos

Carlos, are you talking about something like the GE Bright Stick? Does this light appear to use one 24" tube? If that's the light then those are readily available at any Lowe's or Home Depot here in the US.

If that's not it then it would be very helpful to post pics or something... I back-tracked through your posts and there's no way to get a handle on what you're describing.

Pics, links, or brand and model names would be very helpful...

Hey Matt, how's your stuff coming along?

Aza

I'm in the Dark?
 

Carlos? So WHAT did you use in the end? . and picture too please?

Grazie

Sorry, no picture. My fault, as I left the units in Buenos Aires. I will look for similar or same units here, which probably exist, and will include a photo here.

The fluorescents I have used till now were a 32w "compact" unit (even if it's not too compact) and this 36w unit.

The 36w unit I bought is a box about 50cm long by 12cm wide and 6cm deep, mostly plastic but with the core in sheet metal, all white painted. It has a removable transclucid plastic front which adds further diffusing to the light. There's a reflector inside.

There's a small on-off switch on the side and the ballast is inside, close to the switch. The ballast is a 2.5cm x 2.5cm x 12cm box, secured to the metal sheet.

The plastic ends are removable to change the 36w bulb, and might probably hold the longer 55w bulb, but I didn't try that. The ballast would have to be changed for that.

One reason I didn't feel too much compelled to bring the units to Rio is that the ballasts were 220v only, due to Argentine regulations which limit multi-voltage electrical products. That would require me using a transformer or change the ballasts for Brazilian 110v types, which cost almost half what I paid for the whole fixture

I also had a lot of over-weight on my luggage, which I had to pay for on my flight, and bringing the lights would add-up to their price.

This week I will look for a similar unit here and will let you know.

A related comment: on one occasion I had to shoot a tango orchestra rehearsal, where the light was mostly regular fluorescents. As I was shooting with an NTSC camera and Argentina has 50Hz AC, I anticipated some flickering, which I had on some close-ups. I let the camera decide on the shutter, and it did pick 160 instead of my standard 60. Flickering was solved. So in case you find yourselves on such a situation do go for that shutter opening.


Carlos

Carlos .. thanks for the explanation .. understood. I liked the tip on the flicker thing too! Grazie

Interesting fixture
 

Today I was navigating looking for a 36w Dulux fixture like the one I had bought, and look what I found:

http://www.atlantasolar.com/product_...oducts_id/1708

If this is a portable 12v DC unit it can be powered from batteries, needing about 3A per hour. It might become a very interesting portable light to take around.

I wonder if the box holds a DC-AC or DC-DC booster inside, which would justify the price. As you know these fluo lamps are fed with high frequency AC, in the order of several tens of thousands. That might irradiate RFI, which might be a problem with video cameras or wireless mics, but the problem may not be necessarily a serious one. The ballasts probably irradiate that RFI too, and I was very close to the ones I bought, also using wireless mics.


Carlos

Lamp types
 

If you are going to pick compact fluo lamps, get the cooler types, usually 6000K types or so, instead of the 3000K or 3200K types.

You can use them naked and mix them with daylight, blending quite well.

For blending with tungsten lighting, you can add a clear yellow gel. Nothing fancy: common wrapping celophane will do, because there's no heat.

Further white balancing with the camera (with the fluo on and getting to the WB white card) will compensate for slight color unbalances. Works perfectly!

Always be sure how you do your WB, as sometimes it's interesting mixing light types for color texture. So pick one light type only for your WB. If you WB where they all mix up you might lose the effect... if you are looking for it.


Carlos

Thanks for the link Carlos... that helps to clarify your points.

Aaron... soon. Maybe this week... I've had a few people emailing me about 'em... and it's discouraging that they expect EVERYTHING for a third the price of anything else out there... which obviously 'aint happening. My lights will be super tough, functional, and durable... and cheap... but I'll also offer them in higher levels of trim at higher cost. The basics that everybody needs for a good location flo are portability, durability, stand mouting, quality of light, and a couple ways to control that light. I can address all those factors in affordable and practical ways... but then the cost can go up a lot when you add barndoors, ANY angle mounting, and eggcrate.

There is no doubt that DIY fixtures will always be cheaper then professional alternatives... and I'm just trying to span that chasm with something as nice as any professional fixture, but with a price that's somewhere inbetween.

For people wanting to spend the absolute least amount of cash... DIY or the options Carlos posted may be your best bet.

Sorry about not knowing about your project. Just now did I do a search with your name and found a thread where you talk about a developing fixture you seem to be working in, based on Kino lights.

Mine is a much simpler line of work, as you can see. It should be cheap though, and my idea of an ideal fixture would be Lowel's Caselite systems... costing a lot less.

My latest idea, which I will find out about, would be finding an aluminum windows store here, which cut shapes for your house, and order a "window like" box from them, closed on one side. To it I could fix the lamp terminals and lamp holders, which apparently are now being sold separately.

But this ready made unit I mentioned above should be a good thing to carry around and put anywhere. It would be great to find some way to control the light spill though.


Carlos

BTW: using a case as the base to build a fixture is not a bad idea. Gluing an aluminum wrinkled sheet on the bottom of the case would provide a cheap back reflector. Common oven aluminum, which I already use gluing it onto a styrofoam board as a sun or light reflector.

The question would be to find the right case, that has to be light, not too deep and large enough. Maybe that's the key to the problem.


Carlos

Carlos... I like the fact that you think the same way I do. I've been disecting the same options that you've just mentioned.

Just to share a bit of what I've found... you can get aluminum gun cases really cheap on ebay... they are fairly close to the needed dimensions. There are also plastic cases that aren't too far off, but do a search for aluminum gun case on ebay and you'll see what I'm talking about.

For the aluminum you mentioned... that has got me vexed for a while now. There are ideal shapes of extruded aluminum which have a cross-section to work perfectly. The problem is that those shapes are extruded in minimum orders of 1,000 POUNDS (of stock) and there is NO excess which can be sold. The excess is melted back down for use in another die (the mold which the aluminum is pressed through as it cools). Those cross-sections are proprietary and the manufacturers won't sell "extra" lengths. Trust me... I REALLY tried to make that happen. If you have enough faith in a design to buy 1,000 pounds... + the die then you'd be in business. I'm guessing that it would be hard to sell enough lights to break even 'cause you're looking at nearly a $10K commitment on the shells alone. Not even Kino or Mole have made that design commitment. The aluminum track at the edges of the ParaBeam are extruded profiles which are then simply cut to length for the ParaBeam body. Since they can use the same profile for anything "ParaBeam" they probably got a truckload off that one die.

This is how I got to the designs I'm working on. The final design has got to be cheap, strong, and functional. When I get some done I'll post right away... hopefully later this week... It's blowing my mind at how slow the process has been... You can't even just throw money at people to get things done... trust me, I've tried.

I would like to see a lot more people trying DIY lighting... It was uplifting to hear that you're going through the same thought processes that I've been...

Yeah it's great to see you guys doing this sort of thing. I've tried to look around at doing this myself, but I just CANNOT find any decent high hertz ballasts or anything here in Auckland.

Matt, I know you'll do a good job and yeah, people can't expect KinoFlo perfection without paying that price. I mean, even if we can put them onto a Mafer clamp for our adjustability that'd be good.

Now, I've had no experience with this, but when I was look at Flo purchases, people mentioned about the Caselight and the fact that it's attached to the case put stress on the join between case and light, and transferred any jolts etc. So for transport they weren't the best - I think they were thinking about Airline transport though, where it's rough. If someone's going the homemade route, and want a Caselight style, maybe they should be aware of this.

Aaron

Matt,

It's good to know I am tuned on what's happening, but I am not really looking to manufacture anything. The things I suggested are exclusively for my personal use and I just thought they might help other filmmakers get their light kits better.

E-bay is also far from my reach (I live in Brazil) except for some very cheap stuff or good deal I might get on something. To have things brought here paying no taxes is pretty expensive, and paying the taxes is way too high.

In the past I did design a portable mic preamp and sold a few units in the US, but it's quite tiresome when you don't live there. So that's not for me. Right now I am concentrating on my film/video projects, which are starting to happen.

But I can't stop my DIY head, particularly when it deals with ideas that might solve practical problems in shooting film or video. So these fluo projects have to do with that.

In any case I do understand what you are going through, if you want to design a marketable product.

The idea I have to go to a "window-maker" here maybe is not something you find in the US. Here we have several places that deal with doing aluminum windows or doors for any application you need, for any measurement you need. They are mostly special ordered, so I think a flat box that might hold fluo bulbs may look like a window to them, only with no opening. Add an U-shaped bar on the outside and we have a light box. Don't you think?

Perhaps I can find an aluminum profile that will also hold an egg-crate or a diffusor up front.


Carlos

Carlos... I like that idea a lot. I considered actually making FAKE WINDOWS for lights... complete with mini-blinds! Think about it. If you use daylight tubes and have enough of 'em that the source is totally soft... or filter 'em so they are... then the light and window could be a believable prop and a functional light.

There are several companies that make daylight fixtures for "SADS" (or SADDS)... Seasonal Affected Depression Syndrome... and while working on these lights I thought that a neat product for people like that would be fake skylights... That would be a neat addition to a house anyway. If you play around with daylight fixtures and get them bouncing off of a wall... when you look back into the room you forget what time of day it is. As long as you aren't looking directly at the fixture it appears that light is coming into the room from a window.

As soon as you get something done post it... and I'll do the same.

Matt, is this the type of SADS lighting you were talking about? At 4"x4"x24" this seems like a pretty portable rig, especially since its made to mount on a light stand.

Yeah, I was just throwing that out there though... I'm not into "SADS"... I'm just stating that the goal of a SADS light is the same goal of a daylight location flo... to simulate natural daylight.

That said, be careful of what you buy because some SADS lights are basically blue... under the premise that it's the blue portion of the UV spectrum that's responsible for the "healing".

The only reason I mentioned it is because any really good location flo (in daylight temp) should be useful to those same people.