White or Gray Card for White Balance?

[Steve Leone]

I cant agree about the fix / tweak it in post idea...
I have a LOT of clients who like to alter or tweak color during the lighting process....the feeling of a lot of corporate producers seems to be that the shoot is the time to create the look, not in post. Certainly , having to color correct all the footage in post to get that warm look when you could have gotten it by adding some no-color gold to your fixtures during the shoot just wont make sense to a producer who is spending $400 an hour to edit in a muti-format room. I hate to sound like a fogey, but after shooting for about 20 years in corporate and broadcast video, the notion of "fix it in post " is a worn out and hackneyed cliche, that was always said in sarcasm...people dont even say it anymore, because most production people just assume that its not a smart thing to do. Color correcting in post has traditionally been a process that is done only when you have to because of the time and expense. In addition, there is always a quality hit....so I must politely differ...just because you CAN do it, doesnt mean you should...the job of the cinematographer and the lighting director is to create the look, first and foremost...that should include creating a look, nite or day or late afternoon, happy , sad, whatever the client needs, thru creative use of lighting fixtures, expentables , etc....post is a good time to enhance or fix if YOU HAVE TO...thats being said, I have had to color correct bad footage on occasion, and while I am glad I had the capability to do it, I feel that it should have been shot the right way in the first place....post is no time to be bailing out poor photography.

[Wayne Orr]

I think we are talking about different situations, Steve. I was responding to questions regarding white balance in run and gun, or situations where total control of the image is not possible. You are mentioning full blown productions with grip and lighting control at your disposal, with a producer checking a professional monitor, and maybe an art director at your side. Sure, in that situation, trying to get as close as possible to everyone's understanding of what the final "look" is to be, is desirable.

But if you have half a dozen interviews to do, at as many different locations in a day, you may not have the time or the support to make everything look perfect. This is where knowing you have the ability to fine tune the finished product in post is a godsend.

I have at least as much experience as you, and I know that "fixing it in post" is not always a cop-out. I wonder how many times some "creative" white balance that was done in the field, has turned into a nightmare when it was seen in the cold light of post production?

But of course, there are times (think news) when it is not possible to "fix it in post" and you better have gotten it right in the field.

Wayne

[Mike Rehmus]

Exactly, Wayne. Changes you make and put on tape are permanent. Fixes in post you can change your mind about. Real time color correction (or most any other video or audio change) make this type of work easy, not expensive.

I always go for a neutral setup if I can and change it afterward if I wish.

[Steve Leone]

fair enuf Wayne, there are at leaste as many kinds of shoots as there are people......

[Charles King]

I am curious to know what kind of paper you use to print those cards?

[Tim Buege]

Previously, someone posted these CMYK settings:

Warm 1 -- C/15 M/2 K/5
Warm 2 -- C/20 M10 K10
1/2 Warm: C/7 M/1 K/2
Minus Green: C/10 Y/10 K/2
1/2 Minus Green: C/5 Y/5 K/1

Are these in the 0-100 range, or 0-255 range?

[Russell Pond]

I'm quite sure they are percentages (0-100).

Russell

[Gints Klimanis]

Hi,

I Googled for Roscoe gel books, but was unable to find a source.
Would you please point me in the direction of a place that sells
the Jungle swatch book?

Thanks !

[Gints Klimanis]

I found the web site, but there is no direct link to the Roscoe Swatch book.

From http://www.rosco-ca.com/,

Click on Products -> Film/Video Products
-> Cinegel -> scroll to bottom for link to
"Would you like to receive our Cinegel Swatchbook? "

Also, there's a SuperGel book:

Click on Products -> Film/Video Products
-> Supergel -> scroll to bottom for link to
"Would you like to receive our Roscolux-Supergel Swatchbook?? "

[Michael Morlan]

Hi all,

The topic of warm cards has come up several times in this and other forums and I thought I would offer some real examples of white-balancing through a swatch book. It's simpler, can be done by one person, and is free.

I've posted a page showing the various effects achieved by white balancing through CTB, CTO, and +green (for flouro effects.)

The samples are of a Kodak color patch chart.

http://www.michael-morlan.net/projects/dv500/dv500_color_balancing_with_gels.htm

Enjoy.

[Michael Morlan]

They're sitting on the counter at the grip outlet in my town.

M

[Michael Morlan]

Responding to the original question in this thread, as noted by Steve Leone, you can use anything to balance with. I've balanced off a grip's t-shirt before. The camera is not using the exposure info to establish balance but, merely, the balance between red, blue, and green components of the target. Balancing off a grey card at one f-stop is identical to balancing off white with the iris shut down. The only thing you need worry about is overexposing the target -- but the camera will tell you if it couldn't get a balance from the overlit source.

M

[Richard Veil]

You must use a white card for white balance. A grey card is for exposure and not for white balance.
Strength and honor
R

[Bill Ravens]

I disagree. Anything can be used for white balance, so long as the RGB values are equal. The luminosity level is irrelevant.

[Tim Buege]

Ok, if any shade of grey (equal rgb values) can be used to white balance, then why do people white balance in the shade as opposed to in the sun? I've had trouble white balancing in full direct sun. My GL2 doesn't want to lock in the white balance unless I put the card in less intense light.

And I can't imagine being able to white balance a card with rgb values of, say, (5, 5, 5). Ok, I know, that's a bit extreme. :)

Tim
tjbuege@visi.com