Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hi everyone:

Just little excited and nervous. I'm doing my first shoot alone, for a client using green screen by myself.

The shoot is in 4 days, so I thought I ask for last minute tips in insuring a smooth shoot.

The only feedback I received from the client's marketing dept. They're handling the editing chores, and just ask to get even lighting, and for it to be bright.

It's an indoor shoot, I don't know if the room is open space, or confined in a small office, and waiting on their info on that, as well as what the dimensions are for the room, and trying to get photos of the place.
The client is an independent mortgage broker, and has limited access to the facility, so it didn't workout schedule wise for me to scout the location.

I've secure a copy of the outline, so I have an idea of the length of the shoot (approx 3 to 6 min)
for a total of 4 shoots.

I have my equpment lined up and secure, (green screen kit, camera/accessories, batteries/media card, light kit.), Have the directions to the place.

Oh right, and find time to take a deep breath was on my list too. :)

Thanks everyone


Robert

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

You want even (flat) light on the green screen and no shadows. However, you don't want too much light on the screen or you'll get more bouncing onto the back of the talent, I usually go for about a 40 IRE.

The talent should be lighted separately.

Try to keep the talent as far away from the screen as you can.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hi Paul:

The green screen is 10 x 10, in an idea situation, how far should he
be in front of the green screen.?

Most likely the talent wanted to sit behind a desk, so depending on the
configuration of the room, he may be close to the screen, in that instance
what would you suggest as how far I should place the light kits for even lighting?

The light kits I have are 2 Rifa lite 44 Pro (300W), 1 Rifa 55 Pro, and
Lowel P1-10 Pro Light Focus Flood light (250W). Would you
recommend 3 pt lighting in setting them up?

Robert

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

While I've never used chromakey green screen (although I have a green screen backdrop and a Wescott collapsible one), the manufacturer web sites are helpful sources of information.

Since you have Lowel and Rifa lights, this is a good resource: Lighting for Green Screen on Location
Wescott: Westcott - University - Product Reviews - Backdrops

A search for "green screen lighting setup" and "green screen lighting tips" would get even more information. Also Chromakey.

The first diagram I saw said to have the talent 5-ft 6-inches from the green screen and another one said to have 10 to 15 feet but this is probably for a person standing vice sitting at a desk.

And my gut feel is there probably shouldn't be any wrinkles in the green backdrop but some backdrops like to have wrinkles.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Tough to give exact distances, but I would move the screen as far back as you can and still get the composition you need when framing the shot. You want as little light as possible reflecting off the screen and onto the back of your talent or onto the set.

Also, keep in mind that when editing, a garbage mask can be placed around the talent. This helps a lot when the screen lighting is not perfect, or there is spill onto a desk, for example.

Place your two lights at approximately a 45-degree angle and dim them if you can. You want the light even, but not excessive or it will be tougher to key.

Consider bringing a laptop with Vegas on it so you can shoot a couple of test clips and see how it keys. You can also use Vegas' scopes to check the light levels and eveness.

Most keying software handles less than perfect lighting, but keeping reflected spill off the talent is important because that's the toughest thing to deal with usually.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

If you know the dimensions of the room, and you're providing all of the equipment, there's really no reason why you can't set up a test at your own home and simulate the real shoot. That will give you plenty of time to experiment without having any pressure.

You should bring the test footage into your computer and see what works and what doesn't. It's also helpful if you know in advance what the background image will be so that you can tailor the lighting on the talent to match the style.

I also recommend that you light the green screen with one set of lights, and the talent with a different set of lights. Trying to light the green screen and the talent with the same lights won't look very good.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Doug: Thank you for the feedback. I'm in the process to secure additional light kit. I was going to go for the Keno's but it's a little outside of my budget to rent, but luckily I may be able to acquire a set of totas to handle the green screen fill, so that I can use the Rifa's to light the talent. The client hasn't gotten back to me on my request for more info on the site and will continue to press on. If not, I'll just prepare for the worse
and plan for contingency. I.e. Bring bunch garbage bags to block windows, or coax the client to shoot in a big ger room to make space for my gear, as well as no windows. BTW I enjoy your Vortex media presentation on your website, and when you were here a few yrs ago presenting out in Dedham.

Paul thanks, The editing is being handled by the client's marketing dept. so my role is strictly shooting, so my role is making sure I make it easier for their dept to have great footage to work with with their editing.
Though I'm having trouble visualizing surrounding the talent with garbage bag mask?

John: Thanks, but I'm having trouble looking for the link where you reference a couple of diagrams?

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Robert, thanks for the compliments. Your plan sounds good, I think a couple of Totas should work very well for the green screen. If your talent is seated, keep the Totas about the same height as his/her head rather than aiming them down from the normal height of a light stand. You'll get more even coverage that way.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Thanks Doug, your support really means a lot. I do have one question, When I have the tota's position by your suggestion, I'm a little concern that the heat might affect them. What options you recommend that may address it, without effecting the light placement?

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Robert,
some other things that you might want to consider (but will likely have to discuss with the client):
does the client have any idea what will be used to replace the keyed-out green? For example, if it's an outdoor garden shot or the middle of a shopping mall, it may not work well if the talent is seen seated in an office/desk chair, a couch, etc.

Also, when shooting green-screen, I try to get the talent to stand, if possible. It helps with their vocal projection and breathing, i.e. you'll RARELY see someone sitting while giving a speech/presentation, singing opera, etc. Standing allows for easier breathing and better projection. (I know a lot of radio jocks do it every day). However, I majored in speech communication and have given quite a few presentations, have taught classes, and emceed trivia competitions and some local charity events, with audiences ranging in size from 3 to 450. I've learned a few things along the way, and standing (when possible) is one of them.

Take that deep breath, then relax...you can do this (just like so many others have).
Best of luck on the shoot.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Robert, I mean that you should place the green screen lights at approximately the same height as the talent's head and the lens of the camera, but that doesn't mean they should be physically close to the talent. Hopefully (depending on the size of the room) they will be placed much further behind the talent and far to the sides.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Thanks Doug for the clarification,

The client did get back to me late last night and will try to get measurements of the room but assured me that the room is "big" and that the window was no bigger than a 40 inch tv. Which the garbage bag idea (fingers crossed) should do the trick. If the room is as big as he said that I'll have the space to move the lights around.

My office is a bit small, so it was a little tough when I had tried to simulate the shoot. If anything I can see what you mean when you talked about shadows (I think I was about a few feet from the screen standing), and how lighting the subject/green screen may not be ideal. Here was the video I shot this past week when I was practicing. It was a little dull, so I just turned it into a lighthearted video showing the advantages of green screening.
Here's hoping today's practice will go better.

Robert

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hey! Is that an 'NX5U' in the video at about time hack 0.11 sec?? Heh, heh! Nice work Robert!

J.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Denis:

Thanks for the encouragement and feedback. Yes the client sent me samples of
other videos they had shot. I've attached a screen capture of the video of the background they used for their videos, you can see in the image they had the talent sitting down. Of the other videos that does not use green screen, they used an office. One that was shot, I was surprise to see the window in the background, that had a slight shimmer effect, Yikes! they did added various images, and text, so I imagine any shot they can't use they hid it well fading to an image or text.. That means the audio needs to be perfect as well, they must have used a boom mike or the shotgun from the camera, but I may stick with the wireless mic to be on the safe-side to not pick up any un-intended sound.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Thanks James for the compliment, well I did say I'd put the camera through it's paces :)

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hi Robert,

I'm surprised you got the results you did with the uneven lighting and wrinkles - just think what will happen with some tweaking of the setup. You're well on your way! Please make sure the talent knows to not have ANY green in their wardrobe, and maybe bring an extra shirt in case - your T-shirt at the v-neck tried to key out a few times. Avoid pinstripes/patterns/busy clothing.

Do you have any kind of capture card in your edit system? Since HDV and most other camcorders today record with 4:2:0 color, there is a lack of color info to get clean edges on the key. I prefer to run cables direct from the "live" camera into my capture device, which is the Matrox MXO2 Mini. I can take the HDMI or Component HD video signal straight from camera head, prior to compression, and record that signal to an I-frame codec at 100mbps using 4:2:2 color, providing much better key results than capturing the compressed footage via Firewire later on. Also capturing the full 1920x1080 that way rather than 1440x1080 (if HDV camera). I'm partial to Matrox, but even a Black Magic Intensity will do the same thing at less than $200.

Good luck on the project!

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hi Jeff:

I had used the Cyberlink PowerDirector 9 Editing software on the video you just saw, and was equally surprised as well at the results too.

I think I understand your question, I'm shooting with the NX5U, so the video will go directly to the SDHC card. Generally I'll upload the video on my desktop and stich the video together with a Sony software called Play memories that works really well.

I've just been told by the client they use Adobe Premiere for their editing work, and save their clips on MP4, So I plan to give them a copy of the original file along with the video formatted to MP4 for them to make their editing job easier to deal with.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hi Robert,
The best advice I could give you is to light separately and forget about 3 point lighting. Keep the talent away from the background and use your backlight wisely. This was a shot done on Tues and Wed for Microsoft. The talent was sitting in a chair about 5 to 6 feet from the screen. The talent is lit with 2 bi-color LED lights. The background was originally lit with 2 Arri 650's. We pulled them out and lit the entire screen with one tota light. There is one reflector to the left of the talent for warmth. We decided not to use the prompter and had the questions fed from the chair to the left of the camera. We preferred not to have the talent look directly into the camera. What you want is even light on the background and no spill. And as mentioned earlier light the talent separately. The background used here is a 7x9 Wescott. Sorry the pictures are poor but the lens was too long for the room.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Thanks Al:

Luckily we're not using the teleprompter. I'll do my best not to have the talent look at the camera, but based on the samples footage they forward over I may have too.

It's a relief to hear you and Doug say the same thing about lighting the subject and green screen separately. I just picked up an extra light kit set. There may not be enough room to use the Kino's so as a space saving room, had rented extra totas to light the green screen, and then use the rifa to light the subject.

As a precaution, had picked up a ton of constructor garbage bag and gaffer tape to block any light coming through the window. My hope is we can use another room without windows, but that's my contingency plan if we can't secure another window.

But the key I just have to remember in addition to get some practice time Is deep breaths, be calm, and stay in control of the shoot Sunday
so that the client does not get nervous of the shoot.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hi Robert,

Confused by the client request for mp4 files - Adobe edits most anything natively. If you transcode to another format, this will further degrade the file making it harder to get the best key. Why would they not simply edit using the original source clips?

Jeff

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hi Jeff:

If I had to hazard a guess, It's In case they can't work with the mts footage from the NX5U, they'll at least be able to work with it in mp4.
In providing the footage in both form ( original footage, and mp4) so they have some options. And worse comes to worse
if they want to stick with mp4, I'd save them the step to format it on their own.

Robert

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Quick question, anybody have advice on the best way to smooth out wrinkles on a green screen cloth.
I've been pulling the cloth tight using the clamps to hold them down, but I've got a ways to go. hahaha.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Depends on the material but try using a steamer and keep it moving. If need be go over it 3 or 4 times. Don't let the steamer sit in one place too long.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

I do the best I could depending on the type of background. When you have a pop up it is what it is. If you have cloth you can pull it tight with clamps. I never iron or steam. It usually does not make that big of a difference if your lighting is right. And more often than not the talent will block the wrinkled area.
AL

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Thanks Don and Al, If I can't get my hands on a good steamer, I'll stick with tightening the cloth with the clamps like I did earlier, and block much of the wrinkles I can either with the subject or how I place the camera.

I did learn a neat trick from a colleague that since I don't have a light meter, the next best thing is to use
the auto iris setting of the camera to check for level lighting. If I don't hear it moving, adjusting then you have even lighting, if it moves, then just check the figures, and adjust the lighting accordingly. :)

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hey everyone, just practicing my set up back home and lighting the green screen.
My question had to do with F-Stop

What's a good F-Stop range you've set in achieving even lighting on the green screen?

So far I've gone as low as 2.8 and as high as 3.6, depending on where I set my Totas.

As you can see in the photos my place is not too big I've hit often hit between 2.6 to 2.8, but
far as I know the room I'm shooting will be bigger.

Thanks!


(PS yes I know, I've got the green screen pulled tight to rid those wrinkles. :) )

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

You can also use a minus green backlight to counter the effects of any residual green spill. The gel (dyed polyester sheet) costs just a few bucks and easy to find at any photography shop or online.

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Thanks Pete for the info.

Knocking on wood, and keeping my fingers crossed for a smooth shoot.
Thank you all for all your help.

I had tried to put together a demo for everyone to show how the testing went, but some trouble with the upload, so all I could manage was this little fun video for your amusement. :)

Signs that spring is coming - YouTube

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Hi everyone.

I thought I give a recap with how the shoot went.

The room was actually smaller than the room I had practice in, so it barely fit all my equipment. I was dreading the fact that if I had gone with the kinos I couldn't fit it in the room, luckily the tota's fit.

The window was actually pretty big, roughly a 4ft by 17 ft. Luckily the blinds blocked about 95% of the light, and brought construction black trash bags to block any light leaking through.

The max distance I could set the the tota's on the green screen was 4ft but it was evenly lit. Phew!

The subject/client stood 6ft in front of the green screen. It took a while to light him properly. If I had him stood 5ft, I'd get the shot from the waist, but there were some spots/freckles that leaked out from the totas, or if I had him 6ft, there would be some shadowing issues on his face, I'd lose the waist shot, but
no spots/freckles, and a good tight shot.

I couldn't pull the camera back, because there was a big desk unit behind me, it's all bolted as one big furniture piece so we couldn't dismantle and set it aside, so I literally had to stand on top of the desk with the camera to maintain the shot/distant.

The funny thing is, after I had made all the adjustments... the client couldn't remember his lines.. so we'll have to re-shoot again. The only challenge is I'd have to shoot with the teleprompter. Since the teleprompter unit is one, where the camera would mount behind it I'd have to shoot it level. I took some measurements, before I left, knowing we would use the same room, but I may have to have him either slightly in-front or even with the total, just to fit everything in the room, now that we can't set the camera up on the desk. At least it's a relief to know I can rely on the Sunday shoot, and everyone's feedback to make additional adjustments, once we re-schedule the re-shoot. But just a heads up that I may have follow-up questions, I'll promise to have the aspirin for anyone who needs it.

Thanks everyone.

Sincerely,

Robert

Re: Greenscreen Lightning question
 

Way to go Robert,
Sounds like a typical shoot. I remember shooting at a library at a boarding school in D.C. The scene was awful so I decided to do the old book case in the background scene. It was a little dark and I didn't have lighting. But there were these Tiffany lamps on very table. I was in luck. Until I found out the tables and the lamps were all bolted down.

Anyway, maybe you can create some kind of angle for your shoot rather then straight ahead. In the picture I posted, even though we had the prompter on the camera we had another monitor to the side that the talent could look at for cue.

I think you should do just fine. Although you should post some pictures of you on that table.LOL
AL