Zoom Controller ratings
 

New Zoom Control ratings? Has anyone done a new zoom control real usage reviews lately? I'm probably going to have to get one since God didn't bless me with three hands, one of which 4 foot long and able to curl around my tripod to the zoom on my GL2.

I was looking at the Bogen for both price and usabilty. Most likely, I would use this in a lecture type setting and especially weddings.

Just looking for usage opinions.

Thanks for your graciousness in advance.


Sincerely,

Steven Davis

I could probably organize such a comparison here at DV Info Net. There are a wide variety of controllers out there these days, but your top three zoom controller makers are Bogen, VariZoom and Zoe.

Hey Chris, I would be interested in a review on zoom controllers too. I haven't found a good comparison article anywhere.

FYI, it is difficult for me to access Ken Tanaka's most recent review of the ZOE DVL. It isn't listed in the Articles page but he does link to it in a posting.

In the category of trying to facilitate the proposed comparison, I offer the following list of features that I consider when I evaluate a controller ( I assume they all have a Record button!):

Actuator mechanism type (rocker, stick, ...)
Actuator throw distance
Standby button (w/comments on compatibility)
Wakeup button (w/comments on compatibility)
Number of LANC speeds implemented in controller
Ramp to speed vs jump
Adjustable max speed settings (custom, fixed number,...)
Speed Control Location (forefinger, thumb, ...)
Progressive speed
Fixed speeds
Auto Focus on/off
Push to Focus
Switch actuator to control focus vs Focus buttons
Frame Forward/Backward
Grooved mounting mechanism (1-side, 2-sided, or not grooved at all)
Mount screw length and usability (The ZR-1000 being a great example of AWFUL)
Quick Release
Coiled cord (with length)
Replacable cord
Button type (Membrane, rubber)
Case Material (plastic, ABS, aluminum, ...)
Panasonic DVX/DVC support
Pan Bar diameter range supported or bar diameter for those with bar
Physical Dimensions & Weight
Links to DVInfo reviews and Manufacturer Websites

Ernest, that's a heck of a list -- fairly comprehensive! We could certainly use that as a basis for a comparison article. Although I think we might have to break it up into several parts, because controllers for Panasonic camcorders tend to be incompatible with Sony / Canon and vice versa (with only one exception that I have found so far; more about that in a moment.

We could organize it like this perhaps:

Part One -- LANC Controllers for Sony / Canon DV and HDV camcorders; this would cover the full Sony DV and HDV line as every Sony camcorder has a LANC jack, plus the Canon XL2 and GL2.

Part Two -- Panasonic Controllers for AG-DVX100A, DVC60, DVC30 etc.

Part Three -- Zoom Controllers for professional Canon and Fujinon broadcast video lenses using a standard 8-pin connector, for all 2/3" and 1/2" video lenses (plus the rejeuvenated breed of 1/3" Fuji lenses for the JVC GY-HD100).

Part Four -- Focus Controllers for same as above.

LANC Controllers to be covered in Parts One and Two: Unless there are any strong objections, I would like to limit this to cover only those controllers specifically made to clamp on to tripod pan handles (or made to replace tripod pan handles entirely). There are a number of simple controllers made specifically for sky-diving applications and things of that sort which are little more than a cable and a switch. I think we should limit our coverage to those controllers that are clearly intended to cover the majority of shooting applications; that is, the "clamp-able" controllers). I also think we should bypass the "do it yourself" kits and build-your-own projects, because the person who will build their own is not going to benefit from a comparison of existing models. Finally there are or at least were a couple of Sony consumer video tripods that had controllers built into their handles (the VCT870RM and VCT-D580RM) which may not be available anymore and required some engineering (hacking off the pan handle and adapting it to your own tripod head), and I'm not so sure that these are worthy of inclusion.

So here's a short list of the existing models I could readily think of for such a comparison:

LANC Controllers for Sony / Canon DV and HDV Camcorders:
---------------------------------------------------------

Bogen / Manfrotto -- 521, 521Pro, 523Pro

VariZoom -- StealthZoom, StealthLXZoom, VZ-Rock, VZ-RockLE, VZ-Pro-L, VZ-PG-L

16:9 Inc. / Bebob -- Zoe DVL

Canon -- ZR-1000

Libec -- ZC-3DV (switchable LANC and Panasonic)

Sony -- RMVD1

Giotto's Industrial -- RC2010, RC2020, RC2030

DVControl -- RM-S, RM-Bare, RM-Bare Pro

Studio 1 -- ProZoom 1, ProZoom 2, ProZoom LCD

Sign Video -- Zoom Commander, Zoom Commander II, Zoom Commander Pro

(what other controller models am I missing here?)

Panasonic Controllers for AG-DVX100A, DVC60, DVC30 etc.:
---------------------------------------------------------

Bogen / Manfrotto -- 521P, 522P

VariZoom -- StealthDVX, RockDVX

16:9 Inc. / Bebob -- Zoe DVX-PZB

Libec -- ZC-3DV (switchable LANC and Panasonic)

Studio 1 -- ProZoom DVX

Sign Video -- Zoom Commander DVX

(what other controller models am I missing here?)

There is that one Libec model, the ZC-3DV controller, which is really interesting because it contains dual circuitry. You can use it on Panasonic camcorders and then flick a switch to use it on LANC-equipped camcorders. Pretty cool! And the only one of its kind that I'm aware of. Might need a special review all its own.

Feedback, please!

Chris, that sounds like you've thought this out well.
I definatly think your proposal sounds good :-)

..oh, be sure to include coments on the wire (like length, flexibilty, where it connects to the controller...) ..ok, i'm thinking Steadicam compatibilty here.. supprize supprize ;-)


- Mikko.

I agree
 

I will be purchasing a controller for my GL2 next month. I definately want a rocker control, I think, sometimes I am more thumbs than fingers. I also want the ability to be able to roll the controller around the handle to have the flexibility of controller placement. So I hope the review can be done prior to next month, if not any opinions are certainly welcome.


Steven

Anyone, feel free to drop our channel on MIRC

Frotti 521Pro . .. PUSH Focus!
 

Canon XM2 here . . ..

I got the Canon Z-1000 - great!

Just got another for my DV-RigPro .. this is the Manfrotto 521 PRO . .this has PUSH focus too, totally brilliant!

Happy camper here! - Grazie

Typical non-technical support from Canon, It's just funny
 

Well, in my quest for zoom controller, I emailed Canon the following question;

"What zoom controllers has Canon tested successfully with the
Canon GL2?"

Notice how I phrased the question, I wanted bench tests to know if there was any difference between them working with my GL2

There response is below.

"Dear Mr. Davis,

Thank you for your inquiry. We value you as a Canon customer and
appreciate the opportunity to assist you.

The ZR-1000 Zoom Remote Controller is compatible with the GL2.

This accessory can be purchased online at the Canon Accessory Annex
found at: http://www.canoncompanystore.com/epages/annex.storefront"

I felt like emailing back and saying, I didn't ask what was compatible, I asked what has been tested. Geez, you'd think they would get that.

I just figured I'd report this to those who I know will apreciate it.


Steven Davis

I guess one of my biggest decisions is to go for a rocker or not.... That's a big question.

Hi Steven,

Sorry but you're putting the cart before the horse there. It's not up to the camera manufacturers to test the various zoom controllers. They have nothing to do with various third-party accessory makers (especially when they make their own controller, as Canon does). Instead, it's up to the zoom controller folks to insure that their products are compatible with a particular camcorder. So what you should be doing instead is asking the various controller people if their products are compatible with the Canon GL2, because it's up to them to test their controllers (successfully or not) with any given camcorder model.

True, I sit corrected.

Chris,

I think that the Sony VCT870RM and VCTD580RM tripod/controllers you mentioned should be included. They are still available at B&H for $122 and $54 respectively.

We could think of them as limited function controllers that have a unique feature: an attached consumer grade tripod (with a surprisingly smooth pan and tilt head). The VCT870RM's variable zoom control is about as good as my $380 Bogen's (with the latter in full range variable mode) when used with my GL2.

They (especially the larger VCT870RM) will be a very viable choice for some people who broke their piggy bank to buy their camcorder.

Fred, may I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the VCT870RM? I bought one of these early on when I purchased my PD150, for exactly the reason you mentioned: to save money. Bad decision. I later moved up to the Canon ZR1000, which I found to be better as a zoom controller, but still not satisfactory. (It has a very pronounced hiccup when you attempt to start a slow zoom in the manual mode) It wasn't until I stepped up to the Zoe that I felt I was getting at least close to the controllers I was used to in my professional work.

However, I held on to the VCT870RM, for unexplained reasons, and guess what? I just packed it in with my lighting gear (in a hard golf case) as a weight saving measure to shoot an interview in Florida. I knew I wouldn't be doing any "hot" camera moves with it, and it performed reasonably well.

But I must say I am stunned that you compare it favorably to your Bogen controller. I would rate the Bogen up there with the Zoe, but a long way off from the Sony.

And finally, that hokey zoom slider works backwards for me: you push in to zoom out, and pull back to zoom in. Ugh.

Not looking to start anything, just want to give another opinion.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for being so considerate, but I take no offense at being disagreed with. Your comments help me to see that I may have overstated my case, or at least not stated it clearly.

I didn't mean that the Sony was any match for the Bogen overall, just the zoom function. And this is because the limitation on zoom control of the GL2 lie mainly in its limited (six, I believe) zoom speeds, not in the controller.

Although I have the Bogen controller and a two-ton professional tripod, I, like you, still just grab the Sony when I want to travel light and think I can get away with it.

"And this is because the limitation on zoom control of the GL2 lie mainly in its limited (six, I believe) zoom speeds, not in the controller."

Well, the ZR1000 has a variable position - 1>5 fixed speeds PLUS a "V" for variable; the XM2 has variable both grip and handle zoom controllers. Fred, I don't understand?

Grazie

I've had a Varizoom Stealth since December 2001. At the time, it was the only thing on the market (as far as I knew) save a couple of cheap-o devices. While happy as a lark to have a remote control on the pan bar instead of a hand on the camera, I quickly became frustrated with the difficulty in maintaining a consistent zoom speed, especially zooming out. When I discovered the ZR-1000, I thought it was great. I bought several and stopped using the Stealth.

In my opinion, a rocker is hands down a superior physical control over the joystick because it is easier to control given the motion and control aspects of the human hand (IMHO). Add to that the ability to dial in a maximum speed and you can smash the rocker, forget about speed control, and concentrate on the million other things you need to pay attention to.

However, the ZR-1000 has some drawbacks. The mount design is poor. It has two v-bumps in a thin steal clamp for different size pan bars instead of a single centered one. This means the controller does not sit centered on the bar. Therefore, when you smash the rocker, the controller can start to slip and spin on the bar. You might think that you can just tighten it but you'll find the next drawback, the screws are cheap little metric screws (hard to replace when lost or to re-engineer) with tiny heads that are difficult to get "tight" by hand and if you use a tool, you'll need a tool to get it off or adjust it and all you may end up doing is bending the steel clamp. Further, even on the largest diameter setting, the ZR-1000 won't fit on the adjustable pan bar of my head let alone a monopod leg.

The next drawback is one that has been mentioned here and I didn't understand it until I went back to my Stealth on my new head. That is the ramp up on the ZR-1000 is instant whereas the Stealth, ZOE, and other higher quality devices automatically cushion the ramp up and down to smooth out the speed change.

So, while the function of the ZR-1000 max speed dial and rocker are desirable, the implementation (zoom and mount) leave something to be desired. Like I said, when I was a novice, I was happy. But now, it's limitations are frustrating and while I hate the joystick of the Stealth, it's the only thing that fits my head and I do appreciate the cushioned speed ramps.

Hey Ernest, so if you were going to do it all over again, what i.e. rocker vs the buttons/slide thingy controller, what would you do differently,

Thanks in advance,

Steven Davis

I prefer and recommend rocker. The more throw, the better so be careful of designs that use small rockers. But like cameras, there's probably no single one that has everything. [pet peeve on] AFAIK, none of them have given any thought to cable management. There's always a cord dangling (coiled or not). [pet peeve off]

I have my eye on the Zoe because it lets you set a maximum speed and then maps it's entire throw onto the range from 0 to max speed. It also cushions the start and stop. AFAIK, the VZ-Rocker doesn't have max speed function yet. They do have edit buttons which are great for backing up after a shot you want to trash. but I'm slipping into what the comparison will ferret out and render explicit.

Ernest, you are to be commended for writing a very astute and comprehensive critique of zoom controllers. Your initial love affair with low-end controllers is obviously quite common, but your awareness of the short comings in these budget units sends you to the top of the class. Of course, the hard lesson is that you have spent good money for at least two of these units, and you will now be spending even more to step up to one of the top controllers. But don't feel bad; I'm a professional operator, and I went through the same expensive learning curve with my PD150 before I found the ZOE. Sure, a quality controller costs a good deal of money, but who in this group bought a "cheap" camera? I'm happy to save money when possible--I think the Spider Brace is an outstanding value--but sometimes you just have to suck it up and pay the piper. But your post was spot on. Good luck in your next purchase! Here's a couple of other points for those in the market.

The number one reason you buy a zoom controller is to be able to do smooth zooms with your camera. Duh. Notice in Ernest's post he keeps coming back to how well, or not, a particular controller allows him to zoom.

"I can do really slow zooms by setting my controller to number 1 speed." You learn to drive a car by learning to feather the accelerator. It takes lots of practice, but it makes more sense than setting the accelertor to "1," or whatever.

Don't be overly impressed by "extras." A good controller will have power up/down, record start/stop, and some focus control. Everything else is "nice to have," but not "need to have." Smaller sized controllers don't have as many optional controls, but their small size allows them to attach comfortably to a shoulder brace or steadicam-type device.

The big-money zoom controllers on professional cameras all use a twist-type zoom control. No buttons, no rockers, no joy sticks please.

Investigate the warranty. Buy from a reputable dealer. Try it for a couple days, and if you don't like it, return it. Pay with a credit card to protect your return rights.

Finally, don't listen to people who tell you, "Real filmmakers never zoom." The zoom lens is a tool, and just like any other tool, it requires skill to use properly, and if used poorly, or overused, it will make a mess of your project.

Wayne Orr, SOC

What about focus, particularly with hand-held using a brace or stabilizer?

Easily changing the focus without disturbing the camera was the primary reason I bought a LENS controller. Although there are certainly times I will want to zoom while rolling tape, I have a more frequent need to change focus as either the camera or subject moves.

So what do most people use a lens controller for, zoom or focus?

Libec ZC-3DV review coming soon
 

I just ordered a Libec ZC-3DV for $99.95. It should arrive tomorrow, so I'll have a few days to practice with it before using it at a wedding Friday with my Panasonic DVC80. This will be my first time shooting with any kind of zoom controller, so keep that in mind when reading my review. I ordered from B&H, who suddenly lowered the price from $140 to $99.95. Don't know if it's a sale of what, but for that price I figured I would give it a try. Unfortunately, I don't have a Lanc camera to use it with. I may let me friend use it with her Canon GL2 and have here evaluate that side of things.

Grazie,
"It should be noted that the lenses of these cameras, like those of their prosumer peers, zoom at preset steps of speed. The best results that any lens controller can achieve are to accurately replicate the range of speeds that a lens permits." -- Ken Tanaka, in his review of the Zoe.

So using "fixed speeds" on a controller selects from the available speeds, while "variable" steps through them as you push the rocker or joystick further. I've read elsewhere, but I can't find the references now, that the GL2 has six speeds while Sonys have eight.

And with all due respect to previous posters, I'm skeptical of the notion that higher end controllers can soften the transition between speeds. As I understand it, controllers can't add functions, they can only trigger them. As I said earlier, in this respect I don't see any difference between the built in controller on my $120 Sony tripod and my $380 Manfrotto controller.

But only by selecting the camera's available preset speeds in that range. If you select speed #2 as the highest speed then at about half-throw you switch from zero to speed #1, then at near full throw you switch to speed #2.

Down to two
 

Well, for all my reading and limitted ability to understand language, I'm down to two choices for my GL2.

The atractive part for the Bogen is that I can use it for a handle, which is nifty, but I'm a control freak, 'pun intended', and think I would miss the rocking action. Just continuing my thoughts, thanks for all the input on this thread.

Bogen / Manfrotto
Price : $ 269.95
Shipping Cost
522C

or the

Varizoom
Price : $ 234.95
CMPCT ROCKER CNTRL (BLK) f/CNTRL L CAM


Steven Davis

Yes. These controllers are faced with the unenviable task of translating the very analog movement of a joy stick/rocker to the discrete steps of the camera's digital zoom speeds. It is conceivable that the Zoe is not alone in remapping the entire throw but merely alone in that their marketing people chose to highlight it. The Varizoom doesn't remap because it doesn't let you set the max speed in variable mode. I hope they add that feature soon as I like some other "nice to have" functions they have that the others don't.

I think the camera is also an important participant in overall smoothness. I'd expect the XL2's 16 speeds to give more granularity to the discrete speeds within a range that a given controller has to work with. Also, the XL1s ultra slow speed at the bottom of it's range would, I think, result in any controller that steps thru the available speeds on it's way up and down from a max speed to have a more cushioned ramp. But stepping thru the available speeds on the way to/from a max speed is way better than anything that just smacks the camera with a command to zoom at speed 5.

As your tag line says, I too would like to know how these things are wired so I could know what's engineered vs perception and best pick the one.

My Manfrotto, btw, has three dedicated buttons to select the behavior of the zoom ring. Two can be set to any of the lens's speeds and the zoom will be constant at the set speed regardless of the amount of zoom ring displacement. The third can also be set to any speed, but then its function can be toggled between simply selecting a third speed and selecting variable speed with the set speed as max. That leaves a lot of easily selectable options at your fingertips.

I've just upgraded from my old ZR1000 Canon zoom controller to the Manfrotto 523 Pro for my FX1 (and client's Z1)
I think that the build is very good and I like the feel of it a lot.
The one thing that concerns me however is that I cannot achieve the slowest zoom speed with the controller that I can with the rocker control on the camera itself.
I thought that the controller was only as good as the LANC settings of the actual camera, so what gives here then?
Please tell me that I've not set something correctly (though I've yet to discover anything that can be set...)

Robin

Well it's a done deal, I ordered the EZ Rock from Varizoom, I will post when I get it.

Robin, if you press the "I" speed button for a few seconds (until the light goes off) it factory resets to the cam's lowest speed. If that doesn't do it for you, something's wrong.

I like it so far. I'm just plum purple with anticipation of having more control at my finger tips. I have a wedding this weekend so I've been playing with it to get used to it. Thanks again to all who responded to this thread. It helped alot.

Functional controller for XM2 ( or any LANC camera)
 

Brought this controller last week and its great -

smooth zoom, focus control between A/M, photo shot..


http://www.keene.co.uk/cgi-bin/codesearch.pl?JLR

Nice, but not very comfortable when mounted on a tripod bar, And no zoom speed control...

Robin wrote:

I've just upgraded from my old ZR1000 Canon zoom controller to the Manfrotto 523 Pro for my FX1 (and client's Z1)
I think that the build is very good and I like the feel of it a lot.
The one thing that concerns me however is that I cannot achieve the slowest zoom speed with the controller that I can with the rocker control on the camera itself.
I thought that the controller was only as good as the LANC settings of the actual camera, so what gives here then?
Please tell me that I've not set something correctly (though I've yet to discover anything that can be set...)


Robin, have you resolved the issue of getting the LANC controller to use the lowest FX1/Z1 zoom speed? I know that the slowest preset speed available for the handle zoom is faster than what can be achieved on the camera's rocker (I got almost 2 minutes end-to-end with a light touch).

The real question is whether the Manfrotto must choose between the 8 preset speeds or whether it has the full zoom speed range to work with.

I'm looking for the ideal LANC controller for my Z1 and any insights would be appreciated!

David McCallister
Fort Mill, SC USA

David,
So far, I haven't been able to resolve this issue...
However, if I want a very slow - almost imperceptible - zoom, I'm using the manual zoom ring more and more.
It's like going back to my film days...

Robin

Not your model, I've got the 521Pro. Info on this has been scarce. As a result of your post, did some more detective work and have just discovered I can set Zoom speeds - any good?:

"521PRO enables you to control power, recording, zoom and focus.

Like the 523PRO, the 521PRO features manual focus buttons and an auto focus button, allowing you to achieve in-focus images easily when working in manual focus mode.

It also has a progressive zoom speed (the further you rotate the zoom wheel, the faster the zoom), a fixed zoomspeed (irrespective of the rotation applied to the wheel, zoom speed remains constant), or a customizable maximum speed, which you can set to exactly the level you want.

To set a custom zoom speed, simply holdthe zoom speed button until the LED flashes and use the wheel to record your speed. The LED shows you which speed you have selected.


I guess, Robin, Zoom wheels are mechanical or are they too Fly-by-wire? If FBW, then it would be a simple thing for a ZOOM toggle to be upgraded to a ZOOM/TOGGLE/WHEEL? See what I mean?

Grazie

Robin:

I did some exploration of the LANC technical spec. It allows for 8 tele and 8 wide zoom speeds. Since a controller can only select one of 8 speeds in either direction, no stepless zoom is possible. So I think it all depends on what actual speeds Sony has mapped to the 8 speed "slots" the LANC can access. In the case of the Z1, speed slot #1 is an approximately 20 second zoom. The highest mapped speed (#8) seems to correlate with the max zoom speed you can get with the rocker: about 2 seconds.

Your idea of going manual sounds good. Does anyone make a longer shaft one could put over the zoom ring knob to permit more subtle control? Say something about 4-6 inches long?

Dave McCallister

Dave,
Thanks for looking into the LANC specs.

I haven't heard of any commercial extender for the zoom knob- I guess it's something that will have to be made up in the workshop...

Regards,

Robin

Don't I recall an executive from Manfrotto posting on this group awhile back? Maybe had something to do with the FigRig? Certainly he should be able to help Dave out with his question.

Wayne Orr, SOC

Dave is correct in his research. LANC controllers only send the information to the camera (in this case the slowest speed number) and then the camera interprets this information. On the Z1 camera Sony might have unintentionally (?) changed how the camera maps the speeds.

Marc Schotland
Manfrotto