First short films with a crew...

[Van Zijl Loots]

Hey guys, mailing you all the way from cloudy Vienna, Austria. Lemme tell you first off about the whole set-up based around these two films. The first one Experiment #22 is what it is. A film made with media theory students. I was the only that did something before. The second film we went a level up and got an experienced crew, well still only 3 peeps doing all the work but still. Real actors. Lights. A script and a location all to ourselves. Anyways not gonna talk about the stories, watch it and question it afterwards. The shoot for The Eternal Return was done in a couple of hours but the editing was a mofo cause we worked on some lame pc and editing in uncompressed HDV is quite rough. Oh yeah was shot on an HDR-FX1E, the first film, the experiment, was downconverted to DV while the other one was just HDV that we rendered DVD PAL format. Was edited on Sony Vegas 7. Any other questions and comments are more than welcome. Thanks in advance...

Check it here: http://www.myspace.com/trojanpro

Regards

Van Zijl

[Van Zijl Loots]

Not that I´m sulking. But it´s been a while and not one person has made a post about my films.

Regards
Van Zijl

[Jeff Cottrone]

Van,

I liked The Eternal Return. I thought it was effective. Great look and angles and editing and camera work. The music fit. Maybe a little too much running. I would have liked to see more of the guy with the knife, or something else lingering along the edges, in place of some of the running. But overall great job!

Not sure the point you're trying to prove in The Experiment worked. In fact, I think you proved the opposite: that image sequences have to be coupled with, and designed for, a specific musical style for it to work; that you can't just take the same image sequence, lop on a different musical style, give it a different 'look' in editing, and achieve a different result that is effective.

[Van Zijl Loots]

Hey Jeff, thanks for the feedback. Anything is better than nothing. And yeah The Eternal Return is not perfect, but I believe for the short time we´ve invested in it, it´s ok, and yeah there´s loads of room for improvement. About the Experiment. Well it´s the brain trust of the media theory students, not me. I just provided the camera and worked alongside the two guys who thought of it and we made up our minds on what to shoot on set. Some people like the overall concept and believe it worked, while others don´t, such as yourself. Meaning people perceive things differently, which is an experiment of it´s own.

BTW for The Eternal Return. You think it works as a trailer for a film? Since one of my crew members thinks it does, and we could ellaborate more on everything.

Once again thanks for the feedback...

Regards
Van Zijl

[Jeff Cottrone]

I think it could work as a trailer, but you'd have to somehow get across the larger context of what the story is. Maybe through a few one line text screens spaced throughout it.

[Bruce Nelson]

I thought experiment#23 did evoke a different response for each of the three themes and demonstrated the effect that music could have on a film. However, the different color grading also played a part.

I think that the eternal return was complete in and of itself. Let the viewer fill in the details.

[Van Zijl Loots]

It´s Experiment #22, the #23 was for comic effect...

Thanks for the great feedback aswell...

*puts on action man voice* Coming next fall to a theatre near you, The Eternal Return! A film that will rock your socks off, and will make you cry like a little baby, and wish you never woke up from that nightmare you had last night... *stops action man voice*

Regards
Reminiscence

[Van Zijl Loots]

Wow for a community of 24k members, this is what I can expect of any future feedback? Guess if I make anything more serious, it´s not worth posting about it here. I got more feedback from a online gaming community...

Regards
Van Zijl

[Boyd Ostroff]

Van,

I watched "Eternal Return" and liked the edgy camerawork and editing, but there didn't seem to be much of a story there. However I think the technique is good and could be used effectively in a more complete work.

Regarding your frustration with the lack of response, let me offer a little insight that comes for over 30 years of work in the arts. You need to create things which you are satisfied with. Of course it's nice to get a response from your audience, but that shouldn't be the reason why you create.

As an artist you are going to face a lot of negativity and rejection. And you are going to face even more indifference, which is what's upsetting you now. It hurts when you put hours of effort - and love - into a project and everyone says "so what?" This will happen a lot as you go through life unfortunately, but you have to get past that and keep creating because you believe in yourself and your personal goals. This will sound cold, but I truly think that if you can't handle rejection and indifference then you shouldn't be involved in the creative arts.

If you don't feel that DVinfo is a good showcase for your work, by all means find a better one. But there are 54 pages of work from DVinfo members in this forum. Just like the real world, you must compete for public attention. Competition in all art forms can be brutal. But those with real talent and a clear vision of what they want to accomplish can, and do, survive.

[Emre Safak]

Maybe they watched it but did not like it.

[Brian Duke]

Originally Posted by Emre Safak

Maybe they watched it but did not like it.

That's what I was going to say, and generally people want to be polite and not give negative feedback. I used to give a lot more feedback but filmmakers get so defensive of their work that it is hard to offer any comments, especially if they are negative.

My comments are for Experiment 22:

None of the music worked for me so when you wrote "success" at the end it didn't succeed for me. Another distraction was the crossing the line with the two guys talking to each other, and as a result, I didn't feel like they were talking to each other. This is basic film school 101 that you don't cross the line, so make a note of it and try not to do it next time.

My comments are for The Eternal:

Camera work okay, but the close up in the beginning of the girl didn't feel like a close up of her lying on the couch. What I found most displeasing was the screaming. It was just irritating to listen to. Generally I would stay away from doing "horror/slasher" films UNLESS you are coming up with something brand new and exciting. There are just too many of them and they are so cliché to begin with. I just don't want to watch another short with someone running screaming and being chased by some lunatic.

Keep working and don't be discouraged by the lack of comments, or any negative comments from people.

[Van Zijl Loots]

Hey guys thanks for the feedback.

but dear Brian,

from what you´re saying, my point is proven. Taste differ. Viewpoints differ. Rules differ. Carefactors differ. So at the end of the day, what you might say about my films, whether it be good or bad (only bad actually), would differ from someone else. So yes it´s selective input.

And telling me that people don´t wanna give negative feedback to be polite, is a load of poo. Why? Cause people don´t care. Why would they talk to some newbie on the forum about his movies when they can actually talk to some big guns about theirs or the name of their company? That is the reason why most people don´t reply. And as an artist I need to hear the good and the negative about my films from anyone possible. Otherwise hearing only the good would not make me a better filmmaker. But I´m sure that´s not what you thought would be the thing that actually counts!

And about the lines crossing when the two guys speak. I don´t see how they don´t talk to each other? You´re actually the first person out there to bring it up. And telling me what not to do next time, is even more lame, cause once again who are you to tell me which rules I should follow? Filmmaking is about making art, not following a book and do exactly what it says line by line. But yeah I know about the 180 degree line you´re talking about and I couldn´t care less about using it in Experiment #22. And I´ll use it whenever I want to.

But yeah, did you try to be funny only pointing out the negatives in the films? Or did the films actually have no good points to bring up?

PS. just to be civil, I will never be discouraged. I am actually encouraged by the lack of comments and viewings and whatever else that comes with it all. And sorry that I ranted on like that. These things matter to me, and I like to argue or express my point of view. Even if the ideas expressed differ. All the best to you too...

Regards
Van Zijl

[Brian Duke]

Originally Posted by Van Zijl Loots

who are you to tell me which rules I should follow? ...I know about the 180 degree line you´re talking about and I couldn´t care less about using it in Experiment #22. And I´ll use it whenever I want to... Regards Van Zijl

Wonderful attitute.

This is why I reframe from leaving feedback. You ask for feedback and then you become defensive by saying "who am I to tell you..." I hate to say it, but that's the impression I got from watching it. Disoriented.

Why ask for feedback and then tell them afterwards they are wrong. Getting feedback is just to listen and take notes. Otherwise its pointless if you are just getting into an argument with them. Its one thing to explain why you did one or another thing, but to ask for feedback and then tell me I am wrong afterwards discourages people like myself from doing it.

If you just want me to say your film was great, I'll say it. But what will you learn from that? It’s nice to hear positive feedback after investing blood, sweat and tears into your project, but that does not enable you to improve your film.

What's the point of posting your work here and asking for feedback if you are just going to argue against anything negative? Obviously you are not going to argue against positive feedback. If you are so fixed on being correct, why ask for feedback or post at all?

Anyway, no need to reply, because I think I know the reply and we will just disagree, which will not help either of us. Good luck with your project(s).

[Van Zijl Loots]

Mmk, I knew you´d get the wrong impression immediately from what I was trying to say. But I just hoped you would understand me differently. Just to agree it´s about the art aswell, and rules should not always be applied. So yes, let´s agree to disagree?

I apologize for being so abrupt too. Not easy to really communicate what you are trying to say though in such a short space. And I´m falling short on that sometimes I´m afraid. So yeah accept my apology if you want, I´ll understand if you don´t, I´ve been acting like a muppet.

And it´s not that I didn´t like your "negative" feedback. I just don´t understand why you´d bring up ONLY that. Like my point on people only bringing up only positive points. At least say that there´s no positives to point out. Understand?

But if you don´t get my point, then at least say that aswell. That´s what I want though, communication...

So to end it off, I´d like to say once again I´m sorry, but I´d never was against the act of bringing up the negative parts of the films. If you scroll up a bit, you´d see you weren´t the first to bring it up, and I´d quite nicely responded to the other person...

Ciao for now and all the best with your two films that´s still in Post as I´ve read. Lemme know what´s up with those projects...

Edit: Oh and nothing is obvious, you should know that by now...

Regards
Van Zijl