Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Paul, glad to hear you have come around to the z150 being a keeper. I have too. Took a chance and grabbed two for a one week travel gig instead of taking two FS7's (I have one) and I do not regret it at all. Footage looks fantastic using Cinetone#1 pic profile. Shooting mostly interviews in UHD 30p and vignettes in HD 60i in tight spaces was a snap with these low profile cameras and a couple of SmallHD702 Lite monitors for the director. This is a great flypack combo. The lens is really quite amazing and how fun is it to have macro to clear scan telephoto in one small package? Every camera has pluses and minuses, but hard to find many issues with these cameras. I hear lots of complaints on the boards about no UHD 60p, but since almost all shows are output in 30p, UHD 30p is just NOT an issue, in fact, it saves media space. Thanks for the setting suggestions, btw. The first thing I read about doing was knocking down the detail level--it's just too crispy, due in part to that sharp,very fast focusing G lens. Will post screen grabs if the client allows. Would love to know how these cams are rated since 3db and even 6db shows no grain. And DR was quite good in highly backlit situations. Mind boggling! Happy shooting.

QUOTE=Paul Anderegg;1913868]Yes, keeping the Z150 100%........I have "adjusted" to the controls now, and find myself much more proficient at adjusting exposure while rolling than my X70. The X70 is staying on board, as my grab from the seat OMG a plane is crashing in front of my camera solution. :-)

A Z150 story I shot, the one I posted some RAW 4K clips, has already gotten like 5 million Facebook hits in a day, so obviously, the viewing public has given the camera the thumbs up! :-D

https://www.facebook.com/ABC10News/v...6167322759082/[/QUOTE]

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Hi Chris,

Nice to read your post re: the Z150, my sentiments exactly. The 150 certainly doesn't replace the FS/7, but as you noted, there are a number of scenarios where it fills in admirably. The X/70 is a good little camera, but the Z-150 far and away is a better tool.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

I have the X70, which I love, and the Z150 which I love even more.

I originally thought I was just buying an X70 inside a bigger body. I figured they would perform almost the same. However!,...I did a job two weeks ago that makes me think this is wrong.

Without doing any real lab testing yet, it "SEEMS" that the Z150's newer stacked sensor is either cleaner or the noise reduction on the Z150 is significantly improved.

I was absolutely forced to run some shots at +18- 21db on the Z150 and I was really expecting pretty noisy, nasty stuff. But for some reason, the Z150 handled it much better than I ever expected.

Again without, doing a real test yet, I "think" the Z150 is maybe 3 or 6 db cleaner than the X70?? So the Z150 has about the same amount of noise at 18db and the X70 does at 12db??

Has anybody else noticed this? Again, I'm not sure yet, it's sorta hard to believe but in the next week I'll get the two together in a side by side shootout to get the real answer.

What do you guys think?

CT

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

I have found that the Z150 provides the same noise levels of the X70, at 6db MORE setting. So the X70 at 27db will look the same (noise) as the Z150 at 33db. It really is noticeable when you start using high black gamma settings, which is basically low IRE gain amplification. :-)

Also, the Z150 doesn't have green hue in shadows that turns on and off.....very irritating.

Paul

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Doug Jenson just posted some footage he took with the camera up in Camden, Maine:

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

I saw that last night Jeremy, beautiful stuff isn't it!? Doug has the gift for sure!

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

OMFG, I wish I could make my Z150 look like that! :-O

Paul

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

My thoughts exactly! Proves that old adage about the tools and the hands the tools are in, doesn't it. Look on the bright side, we know the camera is capable of it, and it gives us something to work toward. This color grading stuff is kicking my butt, and the 150 doesn't even beg for it like Slog on my FS/7. I want some kind of "auto" button...............:)

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Color grading kicks your butt until you understand how to do it! Once you get the hang of it, it becomes fun, sort of like knowing a secret code to a safe full of gold. I love FCPX's simple grading controls, which are quick and easy, but severely limited for anything other than bringing standard profiles into better shape. For anything that you'd want to look like Dougs, Resolve has much better tools. The best way to learn is to download the free Resolve, and just mess with some clips for a few hours, have fun, play around with all the controls while googling what each one does. You can do it! :-D

Paul

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

I think that Dougs should send this video to Sony to replace their promotion video.

Amazing, Paul I wish that I can take from this camera the 10% of Dougs video quality. ;)

The only think for my job is the top menu ;(, I use it on tripod for live streaming so it’s a little bit hard to use it.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Because I like to create short compilation of clips similar in length and style to Doug's masterpiece and because I have little better to do I have developed the habit of seeking to understand exactly what it is that makes such a compilation as this so compelling; learning from the Master, if you will. It is not often that I encounter a piece that fires me up, inspires me and stimulates me to create as this one does.

And while I certainly would not underestimate or downplay Doug's grading skills as demonstrated here the things that really got my attention are his camera work, sequencing of subject matter within the general broad context of the marine environment, length of individual clips (mostly about 3 seconds which to me seems just about right) and his selection of the soundtrack. A few tastefully done focus pulls and excellent use of fade in and outs, and cuts add to the overall excellence.

Nothing gimmicky like an over-abundance of shallow DoF shots that are all the rage and outrageous color manipulation including rank over-saturation nor blue green orange and teal all over the place, and that's all to be applauded.

With this small production the single most important take home for me is his camera work, smooth and skillful framing in particular. Seems to me he gets it remarkably right in the camera at square one. I'm thinking there is nothing more important.

That's my learning today. Many thanks Doug.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Here is a demonstration clip of how the Z150 does at maximum 33db gain up. This was shot with REC709 gamma, no black gamma stretch, and gain se to 0 with +1 crispening, which cuts down gain noise. Of note is how the highlights look, like the wheels and the license plate. I can't really make out any pixel movement or noise in the bright stuff.....obviously, the shadows suffer more. If you've experienced the X70 at 33db gain, you will see this Z150 is at 33db what the X70 is noise wise at 27db. Looks better obviously prior to YouTube compression.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Paul - a way back there was a discussion about WA adaptors for the X70. Does the one you got also work for the Z150 (I got a used very similar JVC 0.82x that did the job) ? It looks like the same lens on both cameras, so I guess it would.

Thanks,
Terence

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

The Z150 has the same 62mm lens. I am using my EXII 16x9 0.8x adaptor still, but EX makes a "Z5" bayonet adaptor ring, that fits the bayonet system of the Z150 as well. I can now "twist n lock" the same converter I had to thread onto my X70 onto the nose of my Z150. MUCH MORE CONVENIENT!

Paul

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Thanks, Paul - good to know.

-Terence

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Paul

Do you have a name/link for the the "Z5" bayonet adaptor of which you speak? Thanks.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

0.8x version https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...0_8x_Wide.html

0.75x version 16x9 Inc 169 HDWC75X Z5 EXII 0 75X Wide Lens Converter with Bayonet Mount for Sony Cameras | Full Compass

16x9 Inc sells the Z5 "ring", which can be screwed onto the back of any of their EXII converters, so if you find an 82mm or 72mm or Panasonic bayonet version, you can simply unthread the bear ring and convert it to the bayonet mount system. I got my EXII bayonet mount 0.8x version for $150 brand new. Apparently, because the Z5 is not made any more, they considered the lens not as valuable ot he market.

Sony also makes a direct bayonet mount converter. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/used/...52934714882%2C

Paul

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Paul, now I'm intrigued: to your experience, does the bayonet fit the X70?

thanks

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Nope, the X70 has a little snot, the Z150 has that big flat oversized front end, which is why it accepts a 72mm converter!

Paul

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Paul, thanks for your reply.

I looked at the 16x9 inc site. I suspect the Z5 ring would have been found in the category "Threaded Rings" but despite having the page there, there are no listed products.

But just to be clear that I've understood you correctly, you are talking about a ring which allows you to mate a lens with a given thread size to a wide angle converter with a bayonet mount? Analogous to the way in which a step up or down ring allows you to use filters of a different thread size than the lens you're putting it on.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

The rear adapter rings are a "service part" from 16x9 inc. Their EXII adapter/converters all have the same rear threading, the only thing that distinguishes them is which rear ring they screw onto the back. The rear ring is held tight by a small allen screw.

If you search 16x9 EXII on eBay, you will see some of the various different types of rear mounting options they offered, such as the Panasonic HVX bayonet. I have 82mm, 72mm, and the Z5 bayonet rings, so I can mount my single EXII converter on a broadcast 2/3" lens, a JVC 650 threaded front end, or my Z150.

My advice if you cannot find a cheap Z5 ringed version of what you want, find a Z5 version that is unpopular and buy it at a bargain price just to use the Z5 bayonet ring. :-)

Paul

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

A question on the high speed mode:
Does the Z150 save the high speed (120fps) clips as 1920x1080 120p, or does it roll it into a 30p format?
Same question for the AX53 as well.

If the file is saved as 120p (same as the AX100), then sound will be recorded also, right?


Thanks,
Mark

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

When you record at 120 fps with the Z150's High Frame Rate mode, the clip that results from shooting with that mode is identical to an ordinary clip when you ingest it into your NLE. Nothing special needs to be done to it. But that doesn't necessarily mean it will be 30P. It could be 24P, 30P, or even 60P depending on the recording format that you've selected. No audio is ever recorded in the HFR mode or the regular S&Q Motion mode.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/z150

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Thanks Doug. I'm on the fence debating getting another AX100, an AX53 or the Z150.

Mark

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

I don't know anything about the AX100 an AX53, but you will not be disappointed by the Z150. It is a full-featured professional camcorder in every way you'd expect.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Looking at some reviews of the Z150, Alister Chapman says in his review that the high speed mode clips are saved as interlaced files. Also, I've read that you can choose 60Mbps or 100Mbps for the HFR mode.

I find the interlaced part hard to believe, and I want to believe the 100Mbps info.

Any confirmation on this would be appreciated. I want the camera by Feb. so maybe I'll come across it in a Japan store by then. So far I haven't seen one to play with.

Mark

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

He's wrong.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Very nice video!

I was thinking about the NX100 as my entry level pro camcorder, but I noticed recently that there are very nice 4K IPS panel TVs coming at under 500$, and that has caused me to start getting second thoughts about 'future proofing' etc.

Trouble is, it is not easy to land jobs which can justify 4K-capable equipment in my area.
Decisions, decisions...

N.F.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Future proofing should always be at the forefront of any equipment decision.

And keep in mind that the Z150 offers a ton of features that aren't on the NX100r. So even though you might not need 4K today, there are many other things to consider. In my opinion it would be extremely short-sighted to get an NX100 today. I talk about the major differences between the two cameras in the first few minutes of this 41:00 video:

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Thanks about the reference.
I was under the impression that the Z150 and NX100 shared the same sensor.

If I remember correctly, there are some limitations when recording in 4K:
- no clear zoom
- S&Q is limited to using only interlaced 1080i video (it would be wonderful to offer that capability in 4K, but I understand that the hardware is probably limited, which leads to another limitation regarding multiple streams etc.)

That said, I am trying to make a business case for either of these models (working in 4K will mean a need for a new computer as well, and a 4K TV for review, etc.- it is a whole chain of events)

Regards,
N.F.
PS. It was very helpful to see the Youtube video using automatic subtitles for non native English speakers like me. I think that Vimeo doesn't offer such a facility?

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Nick,

The camera does not record S&Q in interlaced, it's all 1080 progressive.

You are in PAL land, so when you get this camera, you would go into the menu system and under OTHERS, you would have a choice there of 50i or 60i. For PAL, you select 50i.

This selection will determine the choices available for several other menu items, including S&Q. Once you have chosen 50i, when you go to your S&Q menu, you will have a choice of recording either 25P or 50P in XAVC HD or AVCHD formats, or 25P in MPEG HD 422 or MPEG HD 420.

The camera is going to actually shoot at 100fps, but then roll that into a slow-motion format per your recording mode choices. So if you were to select something with 25P, you would see a 4x slow-mo on playback.

If you had selected 60i in the OTHERS menu, the choices would be a little different, and it would be at 120fps.


Mark

Okay, I need a nap.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Thanks for the clarification, I was under the impression that in S&Q was recording interlaced HD from other posts (maybe I confuse her with the NX100?).

I find it irritating that Sony didn't build a world camera, I would love to record 120 fps and roll back to 25 fps for example. And, if I had to shoot outside EU, that would probably force me to get a second camera.
Oh, and disabling 24p video for PAL users doesn't make much sense to me - if I wanted to shoot for cinema, would I be forced to buy an NTSC version?

Cheers,
N.F.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

This is a world camera, but you just have to choose in the menu 50i or 60i to go between PAL or NTSC.

If you are shooting S&Q mode in 60i mode (NTSC) you get a choice of 24P, 30P or 60P in XAVC HD or AVCHD formats, and 24P or 30P in MPEG HD 422 or MPEG HD 420. Aside from the S&Q mode, the format and frame rate choices are abundant.

I don't own this camera, but if I were going to shoot cinematic with it, I'd probably go with the XAVC QFHD (4K) recording format 2160/24p @100Mbps. I bet that looks pretty good.

It seems like a decent camera, but just wasn't ticking the right boxes for what I'd use it for. For one thing, I'd want more like a 20x zoom and this has 12x.


Mark

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

I *think* (but I may be wrong) that you cannot have both 50 Hz and 60 Hz modes in the same body. I am pretty certain that the NX100 has this limitation.

Theoretically, the ClearZoom technology gives you extra reach (but in HD, I think, not in 4K). I think that I shall have to download the PDF manual for another round of study.

Cheers,
N.F.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

I'm confused by your statements that seem to be at odds with each other.

It's all Greek to me :)

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

On the X70 you can do both PAL and NTSC. Just needs a few more button clicks.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

ClearImage zoom works in both HD and UHD...the dispaly says Ci all the way to 2x, even though ClearImage is suppossed to stop at 1.5x in UHD mode. The difference between Clear Image and the 2x+ "Digital Zoom", is that Clear Image continues to process detail/sharpening scaling, and once you go past 2x, digital zoom just magnifies the already sharpened pixels, which looks harsh by comparison.

IPS panels are a BAD choice for a UHD tv set...they have very low contrast and terrible black levels. You should only get one if you watch the set from the side angles frequently. On a PC monitor it might be a good thing, since your face might float around in front of it, but on a TV it sucks.

Paul

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

Most probably, I was confused by a statement that the NX100 is not a 'world camera', and I assumed that the same held for the Z150?

My muddy posts should be attributed to writing these past midnight...

Cheers,
N.F.

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

How's the autofocus? I have some run and gun outdoor shoots that may require some auto focus. Maybe also a little indoor (school classrooms)

Re: PXW-Z150 first impressions
 

I do run and gun exclusively, and never use autofocus...I do not find the camera to have an issue manually focusing and running around...the focus is so quick to turn it is never a issue.

Paul