s-log and new Sony x90

[Paul Anderegg]

Cliff, unfortunately, things like megapixels seem to be more important...while camera sensor density went up, for the most part, light sensitivity and signal to noise ratio went down, and 8 bit 4:2:0 still dominates 4K land...I see 8K coming to most devices before we see real commonplace 10 bit HDR in the mainstream for devices we get off the shelf at reasonable prices. And while compression has made great strides with HEVC, we now live in a world where data is becoming more expensive to wirelessly access, so all those extra bits that make things better typically get left behind, for good ol fashioned megapixel superiority.

Paul

[Cliff Totten]

I honestly dont see 8k going anywhere but Hollywood. There is no significant amount 8k content, there are no consumer 8k displays and the worst thing....8k very hard to diferentiate from "good" oversampled 4k.

I think the law of dimishing returns kicks in after 4k. There just is very little benefit on the delivery end of 8k. Yes, for Hollywood film makers, there is an advantage of "crop-in" power that 8k offers...but again thats only usefull in a 4k delivery.

High dynamic range is easily noticable and very striking...even when you see it on display at Best Buy.

Im certain HDR will be much more common in 5 years but 8k wont. It will exist in "exotic", very large presentations.

[Donald McPherson]

"8k" think of the reframing. Many of us hobbyists have only recently jumped on the 4k market so I will be sticking to my x70 for a few years yet.

[Noa Put]

Originally Posted by Cliff Totten

Im certain HDR will be much more common in 5 years but 8k wont.

Common for who? The average family or us pixelpeeping videographers? I don't expect any of my wedding clients asking me for a hdr film in the coming years and I certainly am not going to upgrade all gear for a HDR workflow. More dynamic range doesn't mean a better film to me, it's not something I can use as a selling point to my clients because I would have to charge extra for it, they don't care if there is more information in the shadows or highlights, they just want to see a well shot and edited film with clear audio, they just want me to catch all those important or emotional moments, no-one is going to be disappointed if the shadows are darker or if the highlights if a window is blown out.

[Cliff Totten]

Common for every TV sold 5 years from now. Nobody knows what "HDR" is today. But as time goes on consumer awareness will grow, just like it doing with "4k" today.

This has been the progression of TV for how many years now? Look at the history of TV itself.....

First TVs...."Its too expensive, Ill stick with my trusty radio, thank you".

Color TV..."No thanks, my single, wood cabinette, 15inch B&W model is all I will ever need. This color talk is just a passing fad"

Cable TV?..."Sorry, why would I pay for my TV when I already have 5 local channels. Rabbit ear antennas is all I will ever need"

VHS recorder?..."What for?...they are too expensive and I dont get how to even connect and use it."

DVD player?..."I'm fine with my VHS, who needs digital video anyway, it looks the same to my grandmother anyway."

Flat panel LCD screen?...."No thanks....I spent $800 on my Sony Trinitron glass tube TV 5 years ago and it still looks amazing. No need to throw it away "

Hi Definition?...."What's this HD thing Im starting to hear? I dont need it. My DVDs look fine. HD is an expensive thing created by the TV companies to make us spend money on their industry"

4k...."All this 4k talk is stupid. Nobody wants it, my grandmother says she cant even tell the difference, there are very few 4k TV models and they are not affordable anyway....there is ZERO 4k content anywhere. YouTube will NEVER do 4k and it's a silly fad that will never go anywhere...its going to die like 3D did."

Guys....havent we heard this all before? Every single TV advancement has ALWAYS begun with a rocky slow start. These types of things have ALWAYS had their critics and nay-sayers. "HDR" is no different.

It takes consumer awareness to drive us to change.

I was in Best Buy last weekend and was supprised at how many 4k models are out. 75% of all the models above 50 inches are now 4k. You can can buy easily buy a good 4k TV for under $500.

Many of these models have "high dynamic range" on their boxes ALREADY!

Guys,...this trend is not going to reverse itself, no matter how much anybody like to see that happen.

Rec709 is NOT the future, its the past. Once consumers LEARN what an HDR image looks like, they will like it because it DOES look spectacular.

(Im sure my grandmother will still not agree)

CT ;-)

[Lou Bruno]

All I know is that I have a new home theatre....Samsung with HDR. Also an 4K APPLE TV and NETLIX.
HDR ROCKS!!!! All about the menu setting. You Tube and Netflix as well as Amazon offer SOME HDR
Movies. The color depth will knock your sox off.


Also have the FDR AX700...but that is for another day.

[Cliff Totten]

Its just a matter of cost and consumer ignorance. Once the cost drops and consumer awareness rises, HDR will begin to thrive.

I'm guessing that in 5 years, 75% of all new TV's, large and small will all be HDR capable. Every MAC will have an OLED Retina display as well as all iPads and tablets too.

Rec709 is not going to last forever and CES 2018 will highlight ALLOT of new HDR offerings. Mark my words....watch how much "HDR" is talked about in January's CES.

Vimeo just announced 10bit compression with HDR, YouTube is doing it and Netflix is working on it too now. People WILL be watching HDR online before we know it and start asking if WE could give them that. Hell,...even the global (cable) media company I work for is investigating HDR possibilities today.

Again....dont hold on to rec709 so tightly....its going to be replaced someday.

[Paul Anderegg]

While HDR and HLG are important future advancements, I think it is JUST AS IMPORTANT that means of exporting HDR/HLG clips to REC709 for broadcast be made a priority...we are already seeing very poorly done HDR encoding on current 4K BluRay releases.

Paul