Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why at DVinfo.net

Dave Brocklebank · December 13th, 2019, 01:30 PM

From reading various threads I see that some people shoot in 4K while others shoot HD.

I am guessing that the people shooting in 4K mode, have decided to forego the better image stabilization of the HD mode, possibly use a tripod, and want the best image quality possible.

Whereas the people shooting in HD prefer the best possible image stabilization for hand held shooting, and possibly want ease of editing on a slower computer without having to convert to HD before editing.

Or maybe there are other reasons?

If you use HD mode, do you use XAVD S HD or AVCHD and why?

As 60% of my videoing is hand held, I want the best image stabilization so will use AVCHD as the reviews I have read say that the quality of the image is almost as good as XAVD S HDand the file size much smaller.

A lot of my videoing is outdoors of people doing hill walking and also small pans of the surrounding countryside. Some of my videoing is indoor, mainly of people practicing yoga. Some is on a tripod outdoors of people practicing outdoor yoga classes.

I have read somewhere that higher frame rate is best to shoot in, so will probably opt for 50 frames per second (PAL system). I don’t know why higher frame rate is supposed to be better, so would appreciate any comments on this too. Possibly smoother capture of movement? Or is it that it allows for faster shutter speed?

I am tempted to do some shooting in 4K on a tripod, which would then give me the option when editing using Premiere Pro to crop the image or even pan the image. But then I need to figure out how to combine this on the timeline with the HD mode footage which will probably be shot in 50 frames per second (PAL) and shutter speed of 100 with the cropped 4K shot in 25 fps.

I have only used a Panasonic TM900 HD camcorder previously, so trying to decide the best mode to use the new Sony AX53.

Looking forward to hearing what mode others are using… and why.

Thanks in advance,
Dave

Ron Evans · December 13th, 2019, 04:30 PM

I have both AX53 and AX100 and since I want nice smooth motion the UHD is not used at all. Always shoot 60P XAVC-S.

Mark Watson · December 13th, 2019, 09:12 PM

Dave,

Generally, I have used the AX-53 for my hand held work. For tripod shots, I use the AX-100, as it has mediocre stabilization. I prefer to shoot UHD as much as possible because of the higher resolution and the flexibility to do cropping or crop and pan movements in post. If there's going to be action that I might miss if zoomed in, I tend to shoot 4K a little wide and then still end up with good looking HD shots in my final video. I also shoot lots of HD for when I need 120fps. It's more demanding to shoot this style because I have to be constantly zooming in/out to keep it as tight as possible to keep the image quality up, which will suffer if I crop too much in post. The AX-100 makes better image quality and has much better manual control over the exposure. It has a larger sensor. The AX-53 shines off the tripod with its superior stabilization. I never go to AVCHD.

Mark

Dave Brocklebank · December 15th, 2019, 04:25 AM

Ron,
why do you use XAVC-S instead of AVCHD? Is the difference in resolution really noticeable... or are there other benefits as well as resolution?

Mark,
if you shoot in UHD, does that mean you are restricted to 30 fps? Does that mean you have to restrict your HD shooting to 30 fps as you will be editing it together with the cropped UHD?

You mentioned shooting ‘action in UHD’. Does the movement suffer from 30 fps?

And similar question as to Ron… why do you use XAVC-S instead of AVCDD? Is the difference in resolution really noticeable.. or are there other benefits rather than resolution?

Please excuse all the questions, and really appreciate your inputs.

Best Wishes,
Dave

Ron Evans · December 15th, 2019, 06:34 PM

Resolution is the same but the encoding is better so less artifacts. Bit rate is twice as much as AVCHD so and the encoder is more modern so result is much better. Try yourself and see. Shoot water flowing or leaves blowing in the wind at 50P and see the difference. XAVC-S will also record audio as LPCM. I see no need to use AVCHD when you have XAVC-S.

Dave Brocklebank · December 16th, 2019, 02:05 AM

Hi Ron ,
Thanks a lot for clearly explaining it. As nowadays file space is not an issue, I will try shooting in XAVC-S

I changed the settings from AVCHD to XAVC-S 50p and noticed a message saying that one could not use the 'photo' while shooting in 50p

Did I mis-understand?

Is there any drawback shooting in XAVC-S 50p on the AX-53 other than a larger file size?

I assume that the full image stabilization will work as this is HD rather than 4K?

Best Wishes,
Dave

Ron Evans · December 16th, 2019, 07:15 AM

It just means you cannot take a still photo while you are shooting video. You can do this when shooting AVCHD. The optical image stabilizer always works it is just the added electronic stabilizer that does not work in 4K as you are using most of the sensor for 4K. In HD it is cropped area of the sensor so there is room for the electronic stabilizer to move the image around the sensor. So in HD you get greater zoom as well as 50 or 60P with the extra stabilizer. That is how I shoot.

Mark Watson · December 16th, 2019, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Brocklebank

Mark,
if you shoot in UHD, does that mean you are restricted to 30 fps? Does that mean you have to restrict your HD shooting to 30 fps as you will be editing it together with the cropped UHD?

You mentioned shooting ‘action in UHD’. Does the movement suffer from 30 fps?

If I set the project properties in Vegas Pro to 30p, then the 120p footage will become 30p (and plays back at real-time speed). If I want the 120p to be slow-mo, I just stretch out the clip on the timeline and that portion will play back in slow-mo. I have only done 60p projects for testing purposes, don't find it necessary.

The main thing I've found when shooting UHD is to not do fast pans.

I did some comparison testing of AVCHD just because it was available on the camera and I don't recall the specifics of why I didn't like it, but I became determined to never use it. May have been due to image quality or for higher demand on computer resources during editing. I now have an i9-series CPU and 8TB of internal SSD storage in two RAID arrays and 32GB of RAM which means I can edit pretty well on this laptop without any bog-down with multiple 4K tracks.

Dave Brocklebank · December 16th, 2019, 01:22 PM

Thanks again Ron and Mark,
I know this is straying from my original question... but I wonder could either of you give me some advice whether to set shutter speed to a fixed manual speed, and how to choose what speed?

Readings some previous posts… if shooting indoors 1/60th seems to be good and if used as ‘a standard’ will produce motion blur which match across different cameras or same camera in different scenes. Did I get that right?

Let’s say I am shooting outdoors in intermittent sunlight and grey skies (Ireland summer changeable weather), and shooting people doing hill walking and short slow pans of the scenery. All shots will be handheld and unfortunately some of them also with me walking too.

Will 1/60th be too slow for that bright outdoor light?

How do I decide what shutter speed?

Do I need to choose a fixed shutter speed? What are the pros and cons?

Best Wishes,
Dave

Ron Evans · December 16th, 2019, 01:33 PM

You are shooting in PAL so I assume 50P. If you are indoors and not moving too much 1/50 would work. Same applies for NTSC with 60P but then of course 1/60 or 1/120. If you are outdoors then the normal rule of twice frame rate will work fine for you so 1/100.

I never run auto shutter as it can lead to some strange effects making images change sharpness ( the reason for the twice frame rate rule ) . If it is too bright for that you need to buy a ND filter for bright sunshine. I have a variable ND for the AX53. The AX100 has the advantage there in having ND filters.

Dave Brocklebank · December 17th, 2019, 12:15 PM

Thanks Ron,
I will try those shutter speeds and test them out.

Best Wishes,
Dave

Jim Stamos · December 8th, 2020, 11:22 PM

I shoot exclusively in 4k for the higher quality and shoot handheld alot.
I'm not aware steadyshot is disabled.
I can wake with and it's very smooth

John Nantz · December 10th, 2020, 09:42 PM

Dave - would like to be more helpful but, unfortunately, my cam use the past couple years has really declined due to extenuating circumstances. Weather being one: dense smoke from forest fires combined with some unscheduled construction work, and if that wasn’t enough, now with the stay-at-home virus and more construction work (from a distance). Almost forgetting how to use the cams. It has been depressing.

The AX53 is more or less the middle cam and is frequently used as a multicam with the AX700 or the X3000 sport cam. For the most part, it is used handheld which is its claim to fame at 16:9 60p and XAVC S HD or XAVC S 4K depending on the situation (HD for file size when 4K not needed). Audio is typically via the Røde Stereo Videomic, even when shooting B-roll.

Did a little bit of cycling and sailing video with the X3000 when I first got it, and then a bit more last year, but none since. The bright spot is the sport cam worked great when combined with the Feiyu gimbal to maintain a level horizon. Hopefully next year will be a better one.

The AX53 is the most versatile cam and, percentage-wise, gets a lot of use.

December 13th, 2019, 01:30 PM	#1
Dave Brocklebank New Boot Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Galway Ireland Posts: 21	Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why From reading various threads I see that some people shoot in 4K while others shoot HD. I am guessing that the people shooting in 4K mode, have decided to forego the better image stabilization of the HD mode, possibly use a tripod, and want the best image quality possible. Whereas the people shooting in HD prefer the best possible image stabilization for hand held shooting, and possibly want ease of editing on a slower computer without having to convert to HD before editing. Or maybe there are other reasons? If you use HD mode, do you use XAVD S HD or AVCHD and why? As 60% of my videoing is hand held, I want the best image stabilization so will use AVCHD as the reviews I have read say that the quality of the image is almost as good as XAVD S HDand the file size much smaller. A lot of my videoing is outdoors of people doing hill walking and also small pans of the surrounding countryside. Some of my videoing is indoor, mainly of people practicing yoga. Some is on a tripod outdoors of people practicing outdoor yoga classes. I have read somewhere that higher frame rate is best to shoot in, so will probably opt for 50 frames per second (PAL system). I don’t know why higher frame rate is supposed to be better, so would appreciate any comments on this too. Possibly smoother capture of movement? Or is it that it allows for faster shutter speed? I am tempted to do some shooting in 4K on a tripod, which would then give me the option when editing using Premiere Pro to crop the image or even pan the image. But then I need to figure out how to combine this on the timeline with the HD mode footage which will probably be shot in 50 frames per second (PAL) and shutter speed of 100 with the cropped 4K shot in 25 fps. I have only used a Panasonic TM900 HD camcorder previously, so trying to decide the best mode to use the new Sony AX53. Looking forward to hearing what mode others are using… and why. Thanks in advance, Dave

December 13th, 2019, 04:30 PM	#2
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why I have both AX53 and AX100 and since I want nice smooth motion the UHD is not used at all. Always shoot 60P XAVC-S.

December 13th, 2019, 09:12 PM	#3
Mark Watson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Whidbey Island Posts: 873	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why Dave, Generally, I have used the AX-53 for my hand held work. For tripod shots, I use the AX-100, as it has mediocre stabilization. I prefer to shoot UHD as much as possible because of the higher resolution and the flexibility to do cropping or crop and pan movements in post. If there's going to be action that I might miss if zoomed in, I tend to shoot 4K a little wide and then still end up with good looking HD shots in my final video. I also shoot lots of HD for when I need 120fps. It's more demanding to shoot this style because I have to be constantly zooming in/out to keep it as tight as possible to keep the image quality up, which will suffer if I crop too much in post. The AX-100 makes better image quality and has much better manual control over the exposure. It has a larger sensor. The AX-53 shines off the tripod with its superior stabilization. I never go to AVCHD. Mark

December 15th, 2019, 04:25 AM	#4
Dave Brocklebank New Boot Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Galway Ireland Posts: 21	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why Ron, why do you use XAVC-S instead of AVCHD? Is the difference in resolution really noticeable... or are there other benefits as well as resolution? Mark, if you shoot in UHD, does that mean you are restricted to 30 fps? Does that mean you have to restrict your HD shooting to 30 fps as you will be editing it together with the cropped UHD? You mentioned shooting ‘action in UHD’. Does the movement suffer from 30 fps? And similar question as to Ron… why do you use XAVC-S instead of AVCDD? Is the difference in resolution really noticeable.. or are there other benefits rather than resolution? Please excuse all the questions, and really appreciate your inputs. Best Wishes, Dave

December 15th, 2019, 06:34 PM	#5
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why Resolution is the same but the encoding is better so less artifacts. Bit rate is twice as much as AVCHD so and the encoder is more modern so result is much better. Try yourself and see. Shoot water flowing or leaves blowing in the wind at 50P and see the difference. XAVC-S will also record audio as LPCM. I see no need to use AVCHD when you have XAVC-S.

December 16th, 2019, 02:05 AM	#6
Dave Brocklebank New Boot Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Galway Ireland Posts: 21	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why Hi Ron , Thanks a lot for clearly explaining it. As nowadays file space is not an issue, I will try shooting in XAVC-S I changed the settings from AVCHD to XAVC-S 50p and noticed a message saying that one could not use the 'photo' while shooting in 50p Did I mis-understand? Is there any drawback shooting in XAVC-S 50p on the AX-53 other than a larger file size? I assume that the full image stabilization will work as this is HD rather than 4K? Best Wishes, Dave

December 16th, 2019, 07:15 AM	#7
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why It just means you cannot take a still photo while you are shooting video. You can do this when shooting AVCHD. The optical image stabilizer always works it is just the added electronic stabilizer that does not work in 4K as you are using most of the sensor for 4K. In HD it is cropped area of the sensor so there is room for the electronic stabilizer to move the image around the sensor. So in HD you get greater zoom as well as 50 or 60P with the extra stabilizer. That is how I shoot.

December 16th, 2019, 01:22 PM	#9
Dave Brocklebank New Boot Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Galway Ireland Posts: 21	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why Thanks again Ron and Mark, I know this is straying from my original question... but I wonder could either of you give me some advice whether to set shutter speed to a fixed manual speed, and how to choose what speed? Readings some previous posts… if shooting indoors 1/60th seems to be good and if used as ‘a standard’ will produce motion blur which match across different cameras or same camera in different scenes. Did I get that right? Let’s say I am shooting outdoors in intermittent sunlight and grey skies (Ireland summer changeable weather), and shooting people doing hill walking and short slow pans of the scenery. All shots will be handheld and unfortunately some of them also with me walking too. Will 1/60th be too slow for that bright outdoor light? How do I decide what shutter speed? Do I need to choose a fixed shutter speed? What are the pros and cons? Best Wishes, Dave

December 16th, 2019, 01:33 PM	#10
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why You are shooting in PAL so I assume 50P. If you are indoors and not moving too much 1/50 would work. Same applies for NTSC with 60P but then of course 1/60 or 1/120. If you are outdoors then the normal rule of twice frame rate will work fine for you so 1/100. I never run auto shutter as it can lead to some strange effects making images change sharpness ( the reason for the twice frame rate rule ) . If it is too bright for that you need to buy a ND filter for bright sunshine. I have a variable ND for the AX53. The AX100 has the advantage there in having ND filters.

December 17th, 2019, 12:15 PM	#11
Dave Brocklebank New Boot Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Galway Ireland Posts: 21	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why Thanks Ron, I will try those shutter speeds and test them out. Best Wishes, Dave

December 8th, 2020, 11:22 PM	#12
Jim Stamos Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 563	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why I shoot exclusively in 4k for the higher quality and shoot handheld alot. I'm not aware steadyshot is disabled. I can wake with and it's very smooth

December 10th, 2020, 09:42 PM	#13
John Nantz Trustee Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 1,252	Re: Sony AX-53 Which Format 4K or HD do you use and Why Dave - would like to be more helpful but, unfortunately, my cam use the past couple years has really declined due to extenuating circumstances. Weather being one: dense smoke from forest fires combined with some unscheduled construction work, and if that wasn’t enough, now with the stay-at-home virus and more construction work (from a distance). Almost forgetting how to use the cams. It has been depressing. The AX53 is more or less the middle cam and is frequently used as a multicam with the AX700 or the X3000 sport cam. For the most part, it is used handheld which is its claim to fame at 16:9 60p and XAVC S HD or XAVC S 4K depending on the situation (HD for file size when 4K not needed). Audio is typically via the Røde Stereo Videomic, even when shooting B-roll. Did a little bit of cycling and sailing video with the X3000 when I first got it, and then a bit more last year, but none since. The bright spot is the sport cam worked great when combined with the Feiyu gimbal to maintain a level horizon. Hopefully next year will be a better one. The AX53 is the most versatile cam and, percentage-wise, gets a lot of use.