Balancing two Sony cameras. Help please at DVinfo.net

Oren Arieli · July 13th, 2016, 09:56 AM

So I have a Chroma du Monde chart, and I can use the scopes on my NLE, but I'm having a bit of a struggle creating/modifying a profile on the FS100 to match my FS5. Is it necessarily a tweak, import, repeat process or is there some faster way I can do this.

For background info, here's what I've already done: Copied all the parameters from a Sony FS5 PP to the FS100. Still no match on the vectorscope. Some colors lined up fine, some were far off. Got the hue dialed in, adjusted the white balance shift, and more dots are lined up, but still no joy on the blue channel and reds. Is this a color matrix issue now? Every tweak requires recording, ingest, overlay, and is generally a slow process where one step forward takes me one step back. Adam Wilt? Allister? Anyone offer some help in speeding things up?

Dave Sperling · July 16th, 2016, 08:33 AM

Sounds like you have a workflow issue. You need to be able to switch back and forth 'live.' Here's the workaround that I use (it's ok to laugh, but it works...)

To simplify my 'camera match' workflow I use a monitor with A-B inputs and a switched out as a 'switcher'. (It's an OLED, and the processing time on the switch-over takes too long to really use the monitor on its own effectively for matching - however the switched out for the loop-through is virtually instantaneous).

I feed the switched out into a Black Magic Ultra studio Mini Recorder which connects to a MacbookPro via Thunderbolt. On the Macbook I use ScopeBox software - which allows me to size the image, waveform and vectorscope nicely on the screen - I can make the vectorscope large enough to easily see the changes between cameras. Using the monitor to switch back and forth between the cameras makes the matching process a lot easier.

I had bought the BMD Mini Recorder and ScopeBox so I'd have an extra monitoring option on set without having to carry an extra monitor -- and clients love it! I'm already carrying the computer for transfers, and the BMD box takes up almost no room (or weight) in the computer bag. Combined cost of the hardware and software (other than the mac) was about $250.

Oren Arieli · July 17th, 2016, 01:42 PM

Thanks for the response, and I actually looked into the ScopeBox software as an option. I just purchased a SmallHD monitor with scopes, so with an HDMI switcher, I should be able to accomplish the same. I was hoping for something with a two-input overlay, but being on PC, ScopeBox isn't an option.
I'm surprised, and somewhat disappointed that Sony didn't include scopes with the FS5, as the Canon and Panasonic cameras offer. What gives Sony?

Patrick Baldwin · August 9th, 2016, 04:04 PM

Dave, could you explain any further about getting the ultra studio mini recorder to work. I read your post and bought one because I like the idea of having the Scopebox tools available on set. Unfortunately I cannot get Scopebox to see any video. I can select the recorder but get nothing showing. Mine is connected from an FS5 via hdmi and then thunderbolt into a 2015 Mac book pro on Yosemite. Is the hdmi the issue? I have an SDI cable on order. I've googled extensively and all I find is old posts about the hdmi not working properly...
I'd be very grateful if can expand on how to make the combination work

Dave Sperling · August 13th, 2016, 09:38 AM

Sorry, been on location and away. Just saw this.

Make sure you are outputting HD to the Mini Recorder.

Check the Pallette settings, particularly the Video section in Scopebox.

When I open the program no video is displayed
I click on the "Unassigned: Click to Select Source" monitor in the source bar, select Add New Live Source and select Ultra Studio Mini Recorder from the selections.

Then check the Video section of your Selections Pallette.

If 'Auto Format' is not selected, then you would have needed to manually select the format coming into the Mini Recorder box. If a different format than the one being output by the camera is selected, then nothing will be displayed!

of course also make sure the HDMI / SDI selection is correct in scopebox as well.

If you continue to have problems, describe your process fully and we can try stepping through it.

Or call the Scopebox people. I found them very helpful!

Patrick Baldwin · August 17th, 2016, 02:25 AM

Hi Dave. Thank you for replying. I did manage to sort it in the end. In the end I sent 1080 50i from the hdmi port to Scopebox while having 1080 25p set for recording. I got hung up on trying to send the same recording rate from the hdmi port as what I was trying to record because of my inexperience. Once I sent a supported format to Scopebox all was well.
Many thanks again for your help and apologies for somewhat hijacking the thread.

Dave Sperling · August 17th, 2016, 02:04 PM

Glad to hear you have it all working!

July 13th, 2016, 09:56 AM	#1
Oren Arieli Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 919	Balancing two Sony cameras. Help please So I have a Chroma du Monde chart, and I can use the scopes on my NLE, but I'm having a bit of a struggle creating/modifying a profile on the FS100 to match my FS5. Is it necessarily a tweak, import, repeat process or is there some faster way I can do this. For background info, here's what I've already done: Copied all the parameters from a Sony FS5 PP to the FS100. Still no match on the vectorscope. Some colors lined up fine, some were far off. Got the hue dialed in, adjusted the white balance shift, and more dots are lined up, but still no joy on the blue channel and reds. Is this a color matrix issue now? Every tweak requires recording, ingest, overlay, and is generally a slow process where one step forward takes me one step back. Adam Wilt? Allister? Anyone offer some help in speeding things up?

July 16th, 2016, 08:33 AM	#2
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: Balancing two Sony cameras. Help please Sounds like you have a workflow issue. You need to be able to switch back and forth 'live.' Here's the workaround that I use (it's ok to laugh, but it works...) To simplify my 'camera match' workflow I use a monitor with A-B inputs and a switched out as a 'switcher'. (It's an OLED, and the processing time on the switch-over takes too long to really use the monitor on its own effectively for matching - however the switched out for the loop-through is virtually instantaneous). I feed the switched out into a Black Magic Ultra studio Mini Recorder which connects to a MacbookPro via Thunderbolt. On the Macbook I use ScopeBox software - which allows me to size the image, waveform and vectorscope nicely on the screen - I can make the vectorscope large enough to easily see the changes between cameras. Using the monitor to switch back and forth between the cameras makes the matching process a lot easier. I had bought the BMD Mini Recorder and ScopeBox so I'd have an extra monitoring option on set without having to carry an extra monitor -- and clients love it! I'm already carrying the computer for transfers, and the BMD box takes up almost no room (or weight) in the computer bag. Combined cost of the hardware and software (other than the mac) was about $250.

July 17th, 2016, 01:42 PM	#3
Oren Arieli Major Player Join Date: May 2007 Location: San Jose, California Posts: 919	Re: Balancing two Sony cameras. Help please Thanks for the response, and I actually looked into the ScopeBox software as an option. I just purchased a SmallHD monitor with scopes, so with an HDMI switcher, I should be able to accomplish the same. I was hoping for something with a two-input overlay, but being on PC, ScopeBox isn't an option. I'm surprised, and somewhat disappointed that Sony didn't include scopes with the FS5, as the Canon and Panasonic cameras offer. What gives Sony?

August 9th, 2016, 04:04 PM	#4
Patrick Baldwin Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Bidford on Avon United Kingdom Posts: 79	Re: Balancing two Sony cameras. Help please Dave, could you explain any further about getting the ultra studio mini recorder to work. I read your post and bought one because I like the idea of having the Scopebox tools available on set. Unfortunately I cannot get Scopebox to see any video. I can select the recorder but get nothing showing. Mine is connected from an FS5 via hdmi and then thunderbolt into a 2015 Mac book pro on Yosemite. Is the hdmi the issue? I have an SDI cable on order. I've googled extensively and all I find is old posts about the hdmi not working properly... I'd be very grateful if can expand on how to make the combination work

August 13th, 2016, 09:38 AM	#5
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: Balancing two Sony cameras. Help please Sorry, been on location and away. Just saw this. Make sure you are outputting HD to the Mini Recorder. Check the Pallette settings, particularly the Video section in Scopebox. When I open the program no video is displayed I click on the "Unassigned: Click to Select Source" monitor in the source bar, select Add New Live Source and select Ultra Studio Mini Recorder from the selections. Then check the Video section of your Selections Pallette. If 'Auto Format' is not selected, then you would have needed to manually select the format coming into the Mini Recorder box. If a different format than the one being output by the camera is selected, then nothing will be displayed! of course also make sure the HDMI / SDI selection is correct in scopebox as well. If you continue to have problems, describe your process fully and we can try stepping through it. Or call the Scopebox people. I found them very helpful!

August 17th, 2016, 02:25 AM	#6
Patrick Baldwin Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Bidford on Avon United Kingdom Posts: 79	Re: Balancing two Sony cameras. Help please Hi Dave. Thank you for replying. I did manage to sort it in the end. In the end I sent 1080 50i from the hdmi port to Scopebox while having 1080 25p set for recording. I got hung up on trying to send the same recording rate from the hdmi port as what I was trying to record because of my inexperience. Once I sent a supported format to Scopebox all was well. Many thanks again for your help and apologies for somewhat hijacking the thread.

August 17th, 2016, 02:04 PM	#7
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: Balancing two Sony cameras. Help please Glad to hear you have it all working!