sony xdcam hd at DVinfo.net

Francesco Marano · October 19th, 2005, 04:04 AM

hello,

anyone know someting about ?
ccd resolution ?
35Mbit data format ?
4.2.0 ? 4.2.2 ?
Auto focus lens???

Bye

Francesco

Simon Wyndham · October 19th, 2005, 05:48 AM

Don't know the actual CCD resolution at the moment, but the camera will record 1080p from what I can gather.

Yes, it records up to 35Mbit as variable rate MPEG. The fact it is variable rate is very important. You can select constant bitrate too, but that would be less efficient. That said I am still not a fan of MPEG as an acquisition format. Colour space is 4.2.0.

The lens is autofocus. But for some stupid reason a lot of people are assuming this means that it can't be manually focussed!! No, the lens is capable of autofocus, but it CAN be manually focussed.

The camera is also capable of very slow shutter speeds up to 96 frames (thats over 3 seconds of exposure!). Nighttime timelapse will be superb with this!

Kevin Shaw · October 19th, 2005, 07:00 AM

In another DVinfo discussion someone quoted these specs:

"The XDCAM HD products records video signals in 1080/59.94i, 50i, 29.97P, 25P or native 23.98P using the "MPEG HD" codec that adopts the well-known MPEG-2 MP@HL compression. Users can select desired bit rates either from 35, 25 or 18 Mb/s depending on their requirements for picture quality and durations. Choosing the highest 35 Mb/s enables to obtain highest-quality pictures while achieving long recording time of up to 60 minutes, or choosing the 18 Mb/s provides recording time of up to 120 minutes which is the longest time available on other HD camcorders."

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/archive/i...p/t-50837.html

Ken Hodson · October 25th, 2005, 04:49 PM

"That said I am still not a fan of MPEG as an acquisition format. Colour space is 4.2.0."

Mpeg2 in not limited to 4:2:0. This cam could be 4:2:2 in any mode that isn't HDV.

Simon Wyndham · October 26th, 2005, 03:13 AM

HD XDCAM is 4.2.0

Ken Hodson · October 26th, 2005, 01:50 PM

That is too bad. Kind of puts a dent in its "professional" moniker.
I myself am very happy and surprised at just how well mpeg2 does in the HDV format. Of course I do not edit in native mpeg2 but for aquisition it is proving itself out. If given the bandwidth it produces exceptional results. HDV1 is superior to HDV2 in my eyes as it doesn't suffer from motion breakdown. 1080i was a little much to stuff into 25Mbit/s (Go marketing!) without any true resolution advantages. The 720p24 giving the most data per pixel, and looks amazing.
When data rates increase, as is expected from the new JVC 2/3" CMOS ENG style, I think we will see Varicams eclipsed from a price performance standpoint. Go mpeg!

Simon Wyndham · October 26th, 2005, 02:12 PM

HD XDCAM goes up to 35 mbits and can also be switched to variable bitrate mode.

The camera is not aimed at the high end. Sony are aiming it at the industrial sector. This isn't the full version of HD XDCAM. That version will come a year or two down the line.

Ken Hodson · October 26th, 2005, 03:01 PM

35 Mbit/s should still provide quite a nice image. It records to a disc? How much do these disk cost?

Simon Wyndham · October 26th, 2005, 04:20 PM

Yep, 35 mbits should be pretty good. The discs are $29 each. The camera is going to be around $25k, which is sort of on the same pricing as the current 510, perhaps a little higher (I'm not sure of the US prices of current XD equipment).

John Mitchell · October 31st, 2005, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wyndham

Yep, 35 mbits should be pretty good. The discs are $29 each. The camera is going to be around $25k, which is sort of on the same pricing as the current 510, perhaps a little higher (I'm not sure of the US prices of current XD equipment).

And that price is bound to come down if Sony win the bluray war.

I'm confused as to why they limited themselves to 35mbits Simon, when the SD model does up to 50 mbits - there's always a reason I guess. Perhaps no discernable increase in quality?

Also do you know if those record times are for dual layer recording?

Peter Ferling · October 31st, 2005, 08:37 AM

I've read this elsewhere, a good lengthy discussion too, (can't remember the website - I'll post a link here if I find it)... the 35mbit limit is the limitation of the XDcam's disk writing bandwidth. Otherwise, it would compete directly with pany's p2 solid state memory, and be able to achieve 100mbit DVPRO HD -something I more interested in since it zero moving parts that can wear out, and 4:2:2.

Anyway, the XD, I believe, is targeted for news gathering, stand and deliver or straight cuts only -direct to broadcast stuff.

Still, you'll also have to consider getting one their decks as you'll be stuck to that format.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · October 31st, 2005, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

I've read this elsewhere, a good lengthy discussion too, (can't remember the website - I'll post a link here if I find it)... the 35mbit limit is the limitation of the XDcam's disk writing bandwidth. Otherwise, it would compete directly with pany's p2 solid state memory, and be able to achieve 100mbit DVPRO HD -something I more interested in since it zero moving parts that can wear out, and 4:2:2.

Anyway, the XD, I believe, is targeted for news gathering, stand and deliver or straight cuts only -direct to broadcast stuff.

Still, you'll also have to consider getting one their decks as you'll be stuck to that format.

Don't be so sure that 35Mb will be the limit for these cams, either. I'm not saying it isn't, just saying don't be sure it locks in there.

Simon Wyndham · October 31st, 2005, 09:23 AM

This new HD XDCAM is not the final version. The one you see at the moment is aimed at the industrial sector.

Peter, XDCAM is aimed at all aspects of production (hence the progressive scan option), new, digital movie making, the whole shebang.

I'm not sure why the current HD version is limited to 35mbits/sec. This new version of XDCAM uses the same 23gb media as the existing SD line, so it might have been a compromise between length of recording available and quality.

As far as overall practicality and usability goes I think XDCAM beats P2 hands down because it encompasses a much more open workflow. Also, Sony are releasing an XDCAM drive which will fit in a CD-ROM bay on a PC, so there is no need to buy a full deck. I would imagine such a drive to be pretty inexpensive. Such a drive would also give you an amazing archive system too.

Peter Ferling · October 31st, 2005, 01:15 PM

Found the link here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=37006

Talks about HVX vs XDcam

John Mitchell · October 31st, 2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

Found the link here:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=37006

Talks about HVX vs XDcam

Peter, even though I haven't seen XDcam since it was demo'd at SMPTE about 2 years ago, even then it supported writing at 50Mb/s so I don't think it's a writing limitation as such.

October 19th, 2005, 04:04 AM	#1
Francesco Marano Contributor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Italy Milan Posts: 59	sony xdcam hd hello, anyone know someting about ? ccd resolution ? 35Mbit data format ? 4.2.0 ? 4.2.2 ? Auto focus lens??? Bye Francesco

October 25th, 2005, 04:49 PM	#4
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	"That said I am still not a fan of MPEG as an acquisition format. Colour space is 4.2.0." Mpeg2 in not limited to 4:2:0. This cam could be 4:2:2 in any mode that isn't HDV. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

October 26th, 2005, 01:50 PM	#6
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	That is too bad. Kind of puts a dent in its "professional" moniker. I myself am very happy and surprised at just how well mpeg2 does in the HDV format. Of course I do not edit in native mpeg2 but for aquisition it is proving itself out. If given the bandwidth it produces exceptional results. HDV1 is superior to HDV2 in my eyes as it doesn't suffer from motion breakdown. 1080i was a little much to stuff into 25Mbit/s (Go marketing!) without any true resolution advantages. The 720p24 giving the most data per pixel, and looks amazing. When data rates increase, as is expected from the new JVC 2/3" CMOS ENG style, I think we will see Varicams eclipsed from a price performance standpoint. Go mpeg! __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

October 26th, 2005, 03:01 PM	#8
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	35 Mbit/s should still provide quite a nice image. It records to a disc? How much do these disk cost? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

October 19th, 2005, 05:48 AM	#2
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Don't know the actual CCD resolution at the moment, but the camera will record 1080p from what I can gather. Yes, it records up to 35Mbit as variable rate MPEG. The fact it is variable rate is very important. You can select constant bitrate too, but that would be less efficient. That said I am still not a fan of MPEG as an acquisition format. Colour space is 4.2.0. The lens is autofocus. But for some stupid reason a lot of people are assuming this means that it can't be manually focussed!! No, the lens is capable of autofocus, but it CAN be manually focussed. The camera is also capable of very slow shutter speeds up to 96 frames (thats over 3 seconds of exposure!). Nighttime timelapse will be superb with this!

October 19th, 2005, 07:00 AM	#3
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	In another DVinfo discussion someone quoted these specs: "The XDCAM HD products records video signals in 1080/59.94i, 50i, 29.97P, 25P or native 23.98P using the "MPEG HD" codec that adopts the well-known MPEG-2 MP@HL compression. Users can select desired bit rates either from 35, 25 or 18 Mb/s depending on their requirements for picture quality and durations. Choosing the highest 35 Mb/s enables to obtain highest-quality pictures while achieving long recording time of up to 60 minutes, or choosing the 18 Mb/s provides recording time of up to 120 minutes which is the longest time available on other HD camcorders." http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/archive/i...p/t-50837.html

October 26th, 2005, 03:13 AM	#5
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	HD XDCAM is 4.2.0

October 26th, 2005, 02:12 PM	#7
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	HD XDCAM goes up to 35 mbits and can also be switched to variable bitrate mode. The camera is not aimed at the high end. Sony are aiming it at the industrial sector. This isn't the full version of HD XDCAM. That version will come a year or two down the line.

October 26th, 2005, 04:20 PM	#9
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Yep, 35 mbits should be pretty good. The discs are $29 each. The camera is going to be around $25k, which is sort of on the same pricing as the current 510, perhaps a little higher (I'm not sure of the US prices of current XD equipment).

October 31st, 2005, 08:37 AM	#11
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	I've read this elsewhere, a good lengthy discussion too, (can't remember the website - I'll post a link here if I find it)... the 35mbit limit is the limitation of the XDcam's disk writing bandwidth. Otherwise, it would compete directly with pany's p2 solid state memory, and be able to achieve 100mbit DVPRO HD -something I more interested in since it zero moving parts that can wear out, and 4:2:2. Anyway, the XD, I believe, is targeted for news gathering, stand and deliver or straight cuts only -direct to broadcast stuff. Still, you'll also have to consider getting one their decks as you'll be stuck to that format.

October 31st, 2005, 09:23 AM	#13
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	This new HD XDCAM is not the final version. The one you see at the moment is aimed at the industrial sector. Peter, XDCAM is aimed at all aspects of production (hence the progressive scan option), new, digital movie making, the whole shebang. I'm not sure why the current HD version is limited to 35mbits/sec. This new version of XDCAM uses the same 23gb media as the existing SD line, so it might have been a compromise between length of recording available and quality. As far as overall practicality and usability goes I think XDCAM beats P2 hands down because it encompasses a much more open workflow. Also, Sony are releasing an XDCAM drive which will fit in a CD-ROM bay on a PC, so there is no need to buy a full deck. I would imagine such a drive to be pretty inexpensive. Such a drive would also give you an amazing archive system too.

October 31st, 2005, 01:15 PM	#14
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	Found the link here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=37006 Talks about HVX vs XDcam