Mattebox for wide angle at DVinfo.net

Gerson Becker · March 24th, 2007, 09:06 AM

Hi,
I'm buying a Fujinon XS13x3.3RM-M 1/2" wide angle, and was wondering what people are using as Mattebox.
I'm worried since the lens has a 93.1 off horizontal angle.
Anyone using a Mattebox with this lens?
Which model? I see a Chrosziel model. Anyone with this setup?
Thanks

Gérson

Nate Weaver · March 24th, 2007, 10:01 AM

I have the Chrosziel 450 (originally bought for my JVC HD100), and a Canon 3.8 lens, and it doesn't vignette IF I take the mask out. Rotating the first stage does not vignette either.

It's very, very close however, and I suspect the 3.3 might indeed vignette.

The mattebox seems to actually be a very good match for my setup. Not too big, not too small.

Gerson Becker · March 26th, 2007, 03:36 PM

Thanks Nate.

Jordan Elliott · March 26th, 2007, 06:48 PM

I recently bought a new ARRI MB-20, and have used it both in clamp-on configuration as well as a swing-away 19mm bridge-plate configuration. I understand it has been specifically developed with HD / ENG lenses in mind, especially extreme wides like the Canon 4.7x11 or the Fujinon 4.5x13 (both 2/3"). It uses filters up to 5.6"x5.6", as well as 4"x5.65", 138mm, 4"x4", etc. I have been very happy with it. It is comparable to other ARRI production matte boxes, but a bit newer, with lots of little refined details.

I had a chance to use the MB-20 with an F350 a few weeks back, however it was with a 2/3" Canon HJ11x4.7B KLL-SC cine-style zoom, and a 1/2"-2/3" adapter. None the less, the MB-20 is extremely versatile, with every feature of the matte box being modular, so it can be adapted for just about anything.

Also look at the ARRI MB-19, it is a Panavision-sized (4"x5.65") light-weight matte box. It works on 15mm LWS rods, and can be adapted to 15mm & 19mm bridge plate rods. However, I am not sure of its wide angle specs. The MB-19 is my preferred matte box for smaller cameras.

My preference for ARRI matte boxes comes from having broken several Chrosziel boxes in the past. I tend to be a little rough on matte boxes!

Check out ARRI.com

Regards,

Jordan Elliott

Nate Weaver · March 26th, 2007, 07:31 PM

Arri boxes are the best. But since the arguments around here usually involve Cavision and Geardear, the idea of mentioning a $5k mattebox keeps me quiet on that subject.

When I AC'd for film DPs in the midwest who all had their own gear, it was the Chrosziels that fared less well (vs Arri).

Rob Stiff · March 26th, 2007, 07:51 PM

Nate, what adaptor did you get to fit the Chrosziel 450 on your XDCAM?

Nate Weaver · March 26th, 2007, 10:52 PM

The 85mm ring fits the front of the 350s Canon perfectly. With a single layer of gaff just on the bottom of the lens front, it friction fits on.

I also got a used Chrosziel toe plate from an F900 for using the rods, which is what I do most of the time.

Tip McPartland · March 26th, 2007, 11:50 PM

Then there are Mr. Petroff's very nice matte boxes. I have the 5x5 which also takes the 4x5.65 filters. It puts the filter trays so close to the lens that if you slide the box on as far as it will go, the filter trays snag on the lens.

Nonetheless, because I too have the 13x3.3 which is super-wide, I found that I had to take a Dremel tool to the top and bottom of the filter tray I use closest to the lens so that it can rotate fully without any vignetting. I didn't bother with the forward tray because there would be no way to make it work with full wide and full rotation and it works fine as a stationary stage. Typically, I just want to rotate my polarizer, so that works for me.

I also had to slightly relieve the metal piece that holds the tray. Oh yeah, also the adapter ring. It was a major project, but with lens I bet you'd have to this sort of thing with any box for clean full-wide rotation.

By relieving the frame and it's holder, what I'm talking about is grinding away rounded areas, imagine a slice of the very top of a circle, maybe 1/25 of the way down. Otherwise the tray edges that had plenty of room top and bottom vignette as you rotate the stage and they shade the corners of the wider 16:9 image area, which actually stick out farther from the center than even the mid-points of the sides of the image.

I'm very happy with the Petroff, although it definitely doesn't have the sturdy build quality of the Chroszeil that Nate has, it does have a very high quality appearance. But Nate's filter frames are metal, my Petroff's are plastic. Will it really matter? I'd rather have metal.

Anyway, check www.ste-man.com to look at the Petroff boxes, or call Kevin there -- these are great people and although they're the distributors and aren't supposed to sell you one, they will if you liquor them up... just kidding.

Tip

March 24th, 2007, 09:06 AM	#1
Gerson Becker Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Porto Alegre - Brasil Posts: 63	Mattebox for wide angle Hi, I'm buying a Fujinon XS13x3.3RM-M 1/2" wide angle, and was wondering what people are using as Mattebox. I'm worried since the lens has a 93.1 off horizontal angle. Anyone using a Mattebox with this lens? Which model? I see a Chrosziel model. Anyone with this setup? Thanks Gérson

March 24th, 2007, 10:01 AM	#2
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	I have the Chrosziel 450 (originally bought for my JVC HD100), and a Canon 3.8 lens, and it doesn't vignette IF I take the mask out. Rotating the first stage does not vignette either. It's very, very close however, and I suspect the 3.3 might indeed vignette. The mattebox seems to actually be a very good match for my setup. Not too big, not too small. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

March 26th, 2007, 03:36 PM	#3
Gerson Becker Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Porto Alegre - Brasil Posts: 63	Thanks Nate. __________________ Gérson Becker - Lumiere Produções - Brasil www.lumiere.com.br/cinemadigital

March 26th, 2007, 07:31 PM	#5
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Arri boxes are the best. But since the arguments around here usually involve Cavision and Geardear, the idea of mentioning a $5k mattebox keeps me quiet on that subject. When I AC'd for film DPs in the midwest who all had their own gear, it was the Chrosziels that fared less well (vs Arri). __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

March 26th, 2007, 10:52 PM	#7
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	The 85mm ring fits the front of the 350s Canon perfectly. With a single layer of gaff just on the bottom of the lens front, it friction fits on. I also got a used Chrosziel toe plate from an F900 for using the rods, which is what I do most of the time. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

March 26th, 2007, 06:48 PM	#4
Jordan Elliott New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: FL Posts: 16	I recently bought a new ARRI MB-20, and have used it both in clamp-on configuration as well as a swing-away 19mm bridge-plate configuration. I understand it has been specifically developed with HD / ENG lenses in mind, especially extreme wides like the Canon 4.7x11 or the Fujinon 4.5x13 (both 2/3"). It uses filters up to 5.6"x5.6", as well as 4"x5.65", 138mm, 4"x4", etc. I have been very happy with it. It is comparable to other ARRI production matte boxes, but a bit newer, with lots of little refined details. I had a chance to use the MB-20 with an F350 a few weeks back, however it was with a 2/3" Canon HJ11x4.7B KLL-SC cine-style zoom, and a 1/2"-2/3" adapter. None the less, the MB-20 is extremely versatile, with every feature of the matte box being modular, so it can be adapted for just about anything. Also look at the ARRI MB-19, it is a Panavision-sized (4"x5.65") light-weight matte box. It works on 15mm LWS rods, and can be adapted to 15mm & 19mm bridge plate rods. However, I am not sure of its wide angle specs. The MB-19 is my preferred matte box for smaller cameras. My preference for ARRI matte boxes comes from having broken several Chrosziel boxes in the past. I tend to be a little rough on matte boxes! Check out ARRI.com Regards, Jordan Elliott

March 26th, 2007, 07:51 PM	#6
Rob Stiff Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 173	Nate, what adaptor did you get to fit the Chrosziel 450 on your XDCAM?

March 26th, 2007, 11:50 PM	#8
Tip McPartland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Crestline, California Posts: 351	Petroff, the overlooked gem... Then there are Mr. Petroff's very nice matte boxes. I have the 5x5 which also takes the 4x5.65 filters. It puts the filter trays so close to the lens that if you slide the box on as far as it will go, the filter trays snag on the lens. Nonetheless, because I too have the 13x3.3 which is super-wide, I found that I had to take a Dremel tool to the top and bottom of the filter tray I use closest to the lens so that it can rotate fully without any vignetting. I didn't bother with the forward tray because there would be no way to make it work with full wide and full rotation and it works fine as a stationary stage. Typically, I just want to rotate my polarizer, so that works for me. I also had to slightly relieve the metal piece that holds the tray. Oh yeah, also the adapter ring. It was a major project, but with lens I bet you'd have to this sort of thing with any box for clean full-wide rotation. By relieving the frame and it's holder, what I'm talking about is grinding away rounded areas, imagine a slice of the very top of a circle, maybe 1/25 of the way down. Otherwise the tray edges that had plenty of room top and bottom vignette as you rotate the stage and they shade the corners of the wider 16:9 image area, which actually stick out farther from the center than even the mid-points of the sides of the image. I'm very happy with the Petroff, although it definitely doesn't have the sturdy build quality of the Chroszeil that Nate has, it does have a very high quality appearance. But Nate's filter frames are metal, my Petroff's are plastic. Will it really matter? I'd rather have metal. Anyway, check www.ste-man.com to look at the Petroff boxes, or call Kevin there -- these are great people and although they're the distributors and aren't supposed to sell you one, they will if you liquor them up... just kidding. Tip