FAM vs DV OUT at DVinfo.net

Uli Mors · April 18th, 2007, 08:33 AM

HI Folks,

last weekend I took the opportunity to start a project with a loaner F330 - wow, I LOVE xdcam hd - especially the work with the pro disc (show some clips and - BANG - shoot again without taking care of tape end search...)

Shots where made for a music video with a modern orchestra.

Back home I transfered 35mbit/s files (MXF) by FAM, and ALSO captured clips via DV OUT.

However , I wanted to edit the DV files with the option to be replaced by the HD files.

The whole project is needed and reviewed in SD:

Comparing both I found that there is a difference between both.

MXF files came out like expected - Cine4+HiSat giving a bit flat look that have to be graded later in post.
DV OUT is a bit more "crisp" due to (?) detail DV OUT setting : MID

What I encountered is that the DV files go much more into black , looks like a lower black level or lower Gamma Level...

Now I am a bit unsure if this is caused by Vegas (7.0d) or produced by the DV Out conversion.

I uploaded a frame grab:

http://www.media-in-work.de/dvoutvsmxf/dvoutvsmxf.zip

Did anyone compare his footage using both ways?

Uli

Nate Weaver · April 18th, 2007, 10:06 AM

Downconversions, for me on any camera, has always resulted in an image with more contrast and saturation.

I've always chalked it up to the conversion from 709 to 601.

Uli Mors · April 18th, 2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

Downconversions, for me on any camera, has always resulted in an image with more contrast and saturation.

I've always chalked it up to the conversion from 709 to 601.

...well , I thought Vegas / or the cam would attend this when rendering HD to SD... so I expected to get the same results?

Uli Mors · April 19th, 2007, 09:07 AM

HI,

looks like the DV OUT Signal is really much more black (or different ITU).
MXF is fine (on the Waveform monitor), DV signal is much too low into black (PAL) and whites also clipping.

I thought to shoot everything HD but to edit SD (DV OUT) in the beginning to avoid slow NLE converting/rendering to SD - with the option to use the HD files later or in the future.
Running a colour correction after capturing does not look senseful to me - if the blacks/whites are already crushed/clipped?!?

Just for not running into a Vegas / Scenalyzer (Capture Tool) Failure - could anybody capture a second of his HD material via DV Out as well to compare (in FCP or whatever)?

Thanks

ULI

Uli Mors · April 21st, 2007, 02:02 AM

please: Greg, Nate, anybody? Could you capture a short DV converted clip (from HD Material) to have a look at?

Thanks

ULI

April 18th, 2007, 08:33 AM	#1
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	FAM vs DV OUT HI Folks, last weekend I took the opportunity to start a project with a loaner F330 - wow, I LOVE xdcam hd - especially the work with the pro disc (show some clips and - BANG - shoot again without taking care of tape end search...) Shots where made for a music video with a modern orchestra. Back home I transfered 35mbit/s files (MXF) by FAM, and ALSO captured clips via DV OUT. However , I wanted to edit the DV files with the option to be replaced by the HD files. The whole project is needed and reviewed in SD: Comparing both I found that there is a difference between both. MXF files came out like expected - Cine4+HiSat giving a bit flat look that have to be graded later in post. DV OUT is a bit more "crisp" due to (?) detail DV OUT setting : MID What I encountered is that the DV files go much more into black , looks like a lower black level or lower Gamma Level... Now I am a bit unsure if this is caused by Vegas (7.0d) or produced by the DV Out conversion. I uploaded a frame grab: http://www.media-in-work.de/dvoutvsmxf/dvoutvsmxf.zip Did anyone compare his footage using both ways? Uli

April 18th, 2007, 10:06 AM	#2
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Downconversions, for me on any camera, has always resulted in an image with more contrast and saturation. I've always chalked it up to the conversion from 709 to 601. __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

April 19th, 2007, 09:07 AM	#4
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	HI, looks like the DV OUT Signal is really much more black (or different ITU). MXF is fine (on the Waveform monitor), DV signal is much too low into black (PAL) and whites also clipping. I thought to shoot everything HD but to edit SD (DV OUT) in the beginning to avoid slow NLE converting/rendering to SD - with the option to use the HD files later or in the future. Running a colour correction after capturing does not look senseful to me - if the blacks/whites are already crushed/clipped?!? Just for not running into a Vegas / Scenalyzer (Capture Tool) Failure - could anybody capture a second of his HD material via DV Out as well to compare (in FCP or whatever)? Thanks ULI

April 21st, 2007, 02:02 AM	#5
Uli Mors Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 565	please: Greg, Nate, anybody? Could you capture a short DV converted clip (from HD Material) to have a look at? Thanks ULI