My local Dealer has steered me away from the Sony V1 in favour of the A1 Canon for progressive mode, but I thought that the Sony was actually a true progressive mode and the Canon was mock. I was happier with the Canon purely for Lowlight reasons but I had no idea that he may have been right about the prog mode as well!

the canon 25f is not a true progressive mode but it's really really nice. no visible differences. you just loose 10% of resolution which is nothing with the high resolution of this cam. and you can use all shutter speeds. it's just a different way to achieve progressive. i would call fake progressive sony's old cineframe. not canon's 25f.

You dealer couldn't have steered you away from the Sony because of "progressive" because there is no data that proves there is a problem. Two reports mean nothing.

Moreover, as we found with JVC -- the Sony UK mangement may accept product that that the Sony USA or Sony German management would not. Those getting product before the USA seem to have more problems.

And, it very well may be the NLE that is being used. Your dealer could not possibly know that which none of us knows.

Steve,

The progressive mush IS recorded to tape. Just plugged camera into DELL monitor. Its not a very high quality component input on this monitor but it is absolutely enough to show the difference between Progressive and Interlaced. So it's _not_ the NLE that is destroying the image. In fact checking here shows the loss in detail is present in live camera mode as well.

Sony UK are aware of the problem and have asked me to provide a tape which will be in the post this afternoon. They are anxious to nip this in the bud ASAP.

I am having loads of issues with capturing into FCP only now being able to get 12-24 frames in to the timeline. It seems every time a new GOP is started the log/capture loses sync.

To the worried,

I am sure that Sony will sort the problem ASAP.

From the amazing rendition of colours to the pin sharp resolution in 50i mode I can assure you this camera will be the mutts nuts when these teething problems are fixed. This camera is proof positive that one simply does not need a plethora of image adjustments to create a mesmerising picture. It is simply one of the best images I have ever seen, in 50i, and is high definition in every sense of the phrase. This camera renders colours so incredibly accurately you will be astonished and it is completely devoid of any "manufacturer's look." It sets a new benchmark for compact HD cameras and begins to knock on the door of the XDCAMs. I am sure XDCAM owners will pick up one of these for B-roll.

Let's not get down the problem is in hand.

Peace.

Yes, hopefully this will get solved. In all other respects the V1 is a brilliant camera, and yes, it would make a superb B-camera to an XDCAM HD.

I've been watching this thread with great interest. I'm over in NTSC land, and I've been interested in the V1 for its 30p capability.

Glad to see Sony's taking you guys seriously. Hopefully, this will be like the "audio hiss" problem with early PD-150s and VX2000s, and will be corrected promptly.

With all the technology that's crammed into these tiny little cameras, I'm often amazed they work at all.

Just out of curiousity, are you guys trying to remove the pulldown?

heath

That's seriously ugly footage - that has to be a defect. I can't imagine any camera company designing a camera to make footage like that - it's far worse than any other issue I recall seeing. It will be interesting to find out from Sony exactly what is afoot.

So far this is more of an isolated incident, so until we see if others are having problems, let's not jump to conclusions that all units are like this.

heath

I think we can safely conclude it's more than a individual unit problem - the review unit posted by Simon had it, this unit and Tony's dealer's other units. To me that makes a "batch" problem as this point. Other V1e's may be trouble free and hopefully more reports and Sony will chime in (and 30p on US units can be tested).

I tend to think these issues are educational in learning how imagers/DSP etc. work despite the short term pain for those affected.

I thought it was only 2-3 units. Besides, I thought Simon's was a prototype.

heath

Perhaps I misunderstood Tony - I thought his dealer confirmed all units the dealer had were affected.

Tony, can you confirm?

heath

I called the UK retailer today who was about sending my order. I told them about the issue - they were not aware yet. After checking this thread they offered me not to proceed with the order and refund my money.
Moreover they immediately called Sony UK who were aware and said they were working on the solution and they will fix all the cameras with this problem either with a firmware update on Memory Sick (?) or by replacing it with no further cost to the costomer. Well, this is what the retailer guy said. I have not spoken with Sony UK myself.
Hope this is in line with what Tony has got from Sony.

Memory Stick of course...

Zsolt, that is _exactly_ what I was told. It appears the issue is wider than a few units. No one other than Sony know the full extent of the problem. But at least now they are aware of the problem and are working hard on a fix.

I am soooo much happier now. 'cause this camera kicks a$$.

Anyway, just going to update the radipshare thread with another link to some 50i v 25p comparison shots. Full res shots of foliage and red brick houses and slate roofs.

Keep smiling

TT

The first time I tried to capture in FCP from the V1 I had what I thought were regular "drop outs," or breaks running right through the footage...until I opened up the LCD and saw it playing back fine in camera. It sounds like the same MPEG "lost in translation" happening on the mac.

Rewinding didn't help, but turning the camera off and on again did. The footage I recorded was just after some other test material on the tape (also HDV, but I didn't record it) - I hit capture now whilst still on this previous material - which FCP understood fine - there was then a break on the tape which then crossed over into my test material which went all to poo. After I tended to the issue it never came back.

Can't do any more tests as we only had the camera in our hands for a short period of time.

It's an issue that is known about. Try using a different firewire driver in the Audio/Video Setting menu. I had the same problem and gave up trying to get it to work again and use AIC as a workaround.

Capture using AIC and everything will be fine. The drop-out occurs at the start of a new GOP. We'll require Apple to update FCP before we can batch capture.

TT

Also just to double check with you Tony -
When feeding straight from camera into a monitor you say it looks fine.
When capturing into final cut looks not so fine

But what about playing back off tape straight to a monitor?

I've had no problems capturing 24p (packaged in a 60i stream) footage from the V1u with Final Cut Pro v. 5.1.2, so I wonder what's happening.

heath

As things have got clearer it appears I missed the 25p issues during the demo I had. I fed my V1's component input into my Dell monitor and can confirm live output and tape are affected equally badly. As soon as you select 25PScan the damage is done.

If you want 25P at the moment the only was is to use the time honoured method of using a high quality de-interlacer on 50i captures. :)

TT

Answers on a postcard, please!

Try this Tony - something I found odd on live monitoring with the V1

About an arms length away from the lens I held out one of my fingers horizontally. Very slowly I waggled my finger up and down in the vertical.

Do the same and watch the edges of your finger.

I'm a little confused with your reply here.

heath

We no longer have access to a camera. Zane leaves tomorrow for Takuu Island and you can keep up to date with the shoot via www.takuufilm.blogspot.com

Good luck Tony with Sony UK and we'll be interested on what results are found in the US.

Originally Posted by Tony Tremble
Answers on a postcard, please!

Probably got lost in translation Heath. It's British and antipodean humor. Older game or variety TV, radio shows or newspapers would invite viewers/listeners/readers to win a prize by sending answers in, on a postcard or the back of an envelope.

Normal transmission will resume shortly...

Good luck with the Doco.

I've never been to Takuu Island but have travelled (backpacked) through the South Pacific Island hopping. I hope I can return someday with a camera like this V1 or its successor. Bora Bora and Aitutaki lagoons....awe....the colours...:)

ATB

TT

Ahhh, gotcha. I may have Scottish and English blood in me, but I'm a bit too American to have caught that! Thanks!!

heath

Sorry, Heath I though that was a universal phrase. :)

TT

Tony:

Out of curiosity ( and I confess I came in late on this one and may have missed it in the read of the thread) I am wondering if the live and taped output you are viewing that demonstrates the problem is being delivered to your monitor via firewire, or component output and if a difference will occur.

Chris

Live component output to monitor is affected. As I said as soon as one selects 25P the damage is done whether you are recording to tape or not.

Everyone who has been made aware of the situation and has seen the oil paint effect all unanimously agree that is not fit for purpose. Not timeframe for a fix but Sony do have a good rep for sorting things.

TT

Hi Tony,

any update from Sony UK?

No Zsolt.

This is in the hands of Sony Japan now. A priority situation at Sony I'm lead to believe.

Any news I get I will pass on. I am absolutely confident this will be resolved to the satisfaction of all of us.

I am looking forward to the weather improving here in the UK to go shoot some stuff and upload so you guys can see what a dream of a camera this is.

Keep the faith...

TT

25P V1 PAL screenshots
 

Hi guys,
I had the chance to shoot some 25P footage with the Z1 PAL camera this afternoon. A bunch of screenshots are online at www.orphicfilm.nl/html/v125p.html . My first impression is mixed. The footage looks okay and large with enough detail, but it isn't very crisp. It seems to contain noise, the light situation wasn't optimal but it wasn't bad either (at around 4 PM at the beach with a rather clear sky). There is also something odd going on with the footage, checkout the 3rd and 6th picture (the silver lines around the windows of the passing car, and the benches): the color/image-details look a bit strange. Is this the paint issue some people mentioned on another thread?
Looking forward to some feedback. Remember, this was a quick test with not very much knowledge of the camera settings.

Peter,

Those shots look dreadful. They seem, to me anyway, worse than anything I've seen from Tony or Simon's previous examples. The 4th shot in particular, of the low brick wall, is just a mess.

Tony would be best to comment as he has had experience with the 'oil paint effect'

I agree, these are horrible. There is definitely something wrong with that unit. Even Mikko's IBC trade show footage of the V1E at 25P looked nothing like this.

I think we can safely say there has been a huge problem somewhere. How it happened we'll never know but we should all have faith that it'll be fixed in one way or another.

I am still having fun with 50i and look forward to a fully functioning 25P as and when.

TT

I hope they don't decide to charge us more for having a built in "impressionist filter."

Those images look more like the gain was set high instead of the "watercolor" look shown before.

I don't think the Gain was activated on the camera, as shooting outside at the end of the afternoon felt like the automatic exposure was not very 'enhanced/pushed', it was natural as I would expect it comparing with the light situation. But I can't tell for 100%.

CMOS sensors are less sensitive, am I right? And the size of them (1/4 inch) must also have influence on it's lesser sensitivity? Any insights from the technical side?

You could easily have your iris set to compensate for exposure by adding gain. You *must* go into the menu settings and disable shutter priority and/or gain priority in the camera straight out of the box.