FX-1 Footage in SD Project at DVinfo.net

Eric Lagerlof · August 8th, 2008, 08:02 PM

I'm using HDV footage in SD projects in post to get 'pan & scan' options. Basically 1 camera doing what should be a 3 camera live production. Anyway, when I blow up the footage to 'full size' for 'close-ups', I'v noticed a fair amount of 'noise', almost like gain noise, and its a bit soft. I'm wondering if this is mpeg compression? Any ideas on how to get a sharper picture? (BTW, this shows up on both Premiere Pro and Speed Edit)

Some of the softness is focus, I'm shooting live theater with people at different distances from the camera, but they vary probably no more than 2-3 meters. And even though some are more in focus than others, it seems that nobody is really sharp, (and no one is really out of focus either.)

I'm shooting about 14 meters from the stage, iris around 4.4-5.6, no gain, shutter at 60 and wb preset 3200k. No picure profile, i.e., no chroma boost.

So, if you use this technique of taking FX-1 HDV footage up to 100% of its size in a SD project and have problems getting it to look clean, let me know if you have found any solutions.

Ron Evans · August 9th, 2008, 07:51 AM

Yes I have done this but focus is VERY critical and it really isn't possible to zoom in too far, just to the pixel ratio for SD of 720x480, so no more than 2 times which isn't very close zoom. More than that and you are effectively using digital zoom!!! Useful if one is focusing one side of the stage and can cut to the other side but not really possible to focus in on a face for instance. Split the 16x9 image into 4 quarters and that is as close as you can go without digital zoom. It is useful for two camera shoots with one camera really tracking the action and the fixed camera able to provide a variety of angles even if they are not in close they add variety to the edit. In the few times I have done this I have used sharpening filter to get a slightly better defined image, but this won't work if the zoom is too much and it may be worse.

Ron Evans

Eric Lagerlof · August 10th, 2008, 11:59 PM

Ron, sorry to take so long for a reply. I agree with what you are saying, that's why I use SD as my project source. And I never 'zoom' beyond the 1440x960 limit, i.e.100% of the original source.

There is, nonetheless, a sort of softness, almost like a combo of mpeg noise/macro-blocking and the chroma noise you'd get in a composite video signal. Not quite like either, and more subtle, but still there, even in those parts of the frame that are in focus. This is the part where an EX-1 or a Red One might come in real handy.

Ron Evans · August 11th, 2008, 06:41 AM

Eric, HDV is 1440x1080 with 1.33 pixel ratio which is different to SD DV. You should be able to zoom into 720x480 if your original was in good focus. I don't quite understand your comment of 100% zoom. You are really cropping the 1440x1080 image to some other pixel dimension. IF you crop to about 720x480 you will be at SD ( staying at 16x9 and correcting for the pixel ratio a little). This will only give you about a quarter size picture of the HDV image( 4:1 zoom) and to me that is not enough zoom for a closeup of someone on stage where one would need more like 10:1 from your location. If you set camera full stage it means you can have a right of stage shot, a left of stage shot and center stage shot( just cutting out the wings) and that's about as close as one can get without needing digital zoom of the image. IF the camera was not fixed but tracking actors/action then focus becomes more important the closer you get. I used Vegas and Edius for my edits. I haven't tried Premiere CS3 for this.

Ron Evans

August 8th, 2008, 08:02 PM	#1
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	FX-1 Footage in SD Project I'm using HDV footage in SD projects in post to get 'pan & scan' options. Basically 1 camera doing what should be a 3 camera live production. Anyway, when I blow up the footage to 'full size' for 'close-ups', I'v noticed a fair amount of 'noise', almost like gain noise, and its a bit soft. I'm wondering if this is mpeg compression? Any ideas on how to get a sharper picture? (BTW, this shows up on both Premiere Pro and Speed Edit) Some of the softness is focus, I'm shooting live theater with people at different distances from the camera, but they vary probably no more than 2-3 meters. And even though some are more in focus than others, it seems that nobody is really sharp, (and no one is really out of focus either.) I'm shooting about 14 meters from the stage, iris around 4.4-5.6, no gain, shutter at 60 and wb preset 3200k. No picure profile, i.e., no chroma boost. So, if you use this technique of taking FX-1 HDV footage up to 100% of its size in a SD project and have problems getting it to look clean, let me know if you have found any solutions.

August 9th, 2008, 07:51 AM	#2
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Yes I have done this but focus is VERY critical and it really isn't possible to zoom in too far, just to the pixel ratio for SD of 720x480, so no more than 2 times which isn't very close zoom. More than that and you are effectively using digital zoom!!! Useful if one is focusing one side of the stage and can cut to the other side but not really possible to focus in on a face for instance. Split the 16x9 image into 4 quarters and that is as close as you can go without digital zoom. It is useful for two camera shoots with one camera really tracking the action and the fixed camera able to provide a variety of angles even if they are not in close they add variety to the edit. In the few times I have done this I have used sharpening filter to get a slightly better defined image, but this won't work if the zoom is too much and it may be worse. Ron Evans

August 10th, 2008, 11:59 PM	#3
Eric Lagerlof Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 348	Ron, sorry to take so long for a reply. I agree with what you are saying, that's why I use SD as my project source. And I never 'zoom' beyond the 1440x960 limit, i.e.100% of the original source. There is, nonetheless, a sort of softness, almost like a combo of mpeg noise/macro-blocking and the chroma noise you'd get in a composite video signal. Not quite like either, and more subtle, but still there, even in those parts of the frame that are in focus. This is the part where an EX-1 or a Red One might come in real handy.

August 11th, 2008, 06:41 AM	#4
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Eric, HDV is 1440x1080 with 1.33 pixel ratio which is different to SD DV. You should be able to zoom into 720x480 if your original was in good focus. I don't quite understand your comment of 100% zoom. You are really cropping the 1440x1080 image to some other pixel dimension. IF you crop to about 720x480 you will be at SD ( staying at 16x9 and correcting for the pixel ratio a little). This will only give you about a quarter size picture of the HDV image( 4:1 zoom) and to me that is not enough zoom for a closeup of someone on stage where one would need more like 10:1 from your location. If you set camera full stage it means you can have a right of stage shot, a left of stage shot and center stage shot( just cutting out the wings) and that's about as close as one can get without needing digital zoom of the image. IF the camera was not fixed but tracking actors/action then focus becomes more important the closer you get. I used Vegas and Edius for my edits. I haven't tried Premiere CS3 for this. Ron Evans